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    • Couldn't get back to you this afternoon I will tidy it up in the morning ready for the deadline Andy  
    • @jk2054 Received the order of judgement today and Evri have also paid. @BankFodder and JK - I've recently sold an item on Ebay and this time, I did not use Packlink or Evri to send the item to the recipient (used Royal Mail and item successfully delivered). However, I took screenshots of the process to go through Packlink to book a delivery service such as Evri, as i thought it would be useful for you and other members of this forum to see how someone would choose a delivery service through Packlink, and the information that's available about the parcel value, delivery service, compensation etc.  It may also be helpful in future WS / Bundles as an example to show that Packlink is an intermediary / comparison service which provides users with a list of services of delivery companies and the user selects the option that best meets their needs. The screenshots are in the attached pdf. You'll note that A lot of the information is pre-populated such as the order value (which cannot be changed), recipient's address etc. and there is a list of different couriers / delivery services, the compensation they offer, and the price of using 1 of the couriers/delivery services. Towards the end, there is an option to select full compensation coverage from Packlink, and proof of delivery, and the costs for each of these services. In each of the screenshots, there is a prominent message that by clicking "purchase postage label", the user is acknowledging and accept that their purchase will be subject to Packlink terms and conditions - these are the Terms and Conditions that Evri provided in their defence witness statement in my case, and that I used to explain to the judge that under these T&Cs, there is a contract with the delivery company. Delivery service selection on Packlink (redacted).pdf
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    • Hello,

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Advantage Gold and Unarranged Borrowing- A guide

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Advantage Gold and Unarranged Borrowing- A definitive guide





I have seen many threads on the forum that have said I have x charge and an advantage Gold account, how do I distinguish which is which? This will probably reduce the number of times I will have to post but will empower you to be able to read the statements that you receive or already have.



Please can I ask that you only post in relation to making this thread clear to anyone that views this because if you have a specific question re NatWest, please post on your thread and I will answer it or others will do so. If you are new to the forum please start your own thread. One last thing please do not post a thank you as you can see the scales above my post and I can see the details on the user cp. Thanks




I have an internal document that is dated but does have the answer to the why question.

In 2001, NatWest was taken over by the Royal Bank of Scotland Group and replaced the NatWest computer systems as well as aligning charges to the RBS Bank model of charges. That means that the Advantage Gold charge and the Unarranged Borrowing Fee were put together.



My first question that I do need a response to is that NatWest introduced this change in the latter part of 2002. Can some of you clarify to me the exact date these charges took effect on statements?



So now for the facts.

Unarranged borrowing fees have been £14 at the point of these changes in 2001, then £20 and then £28

Advantage Gold fees have been £6, then £9 then £10 and finally £12(since June this year).



If you changed to an Advantage Gold account or opened the account as Advantage Gold Account the you may see a partial fee.

It will appear at the end of a month and have a specific date ie. 31st Jan 03 charges 15dec £3.00, for example. This also applies if you have converted back from an Advantage Gold account.



If you have Unarranged Borrowing and Advantage gold you read it like this


Charge £20....£14 UAB and £6 ADGD fee, or £29......£20 UAB and £9 ADGD fee

or £37.........£28 UAB and £9 ADGD fee or £38........£28 UAB and £10 ADGD fee(please do not confuse this last one with the charge for bouncing a DD/SO/cheque- the narrative for that will be clear).





The partial fee also applies to the partial charge so for example 31st Jan 06 a charge of 34.50 would be £28 UAB and £6.50 for the ADGD.



Fees for the Advantage Gold Account go out at the end of the following month so if it was changed in the middle of january then the final charge for ADGD would be at the end of the following month.



Please can someone post on the one specific question that I have asked, as to the date that this charges change occurred in 2002? The internal document I have states the latter quarter of 2002, ie Oct, Nov, or December. This document is for staff to explain the changes on statements to customers.



Please do not say thanks but offer any further clarification points before I ask a Mod to put a stickie on this tomorrow evening. Use the scales above the post to say thanks or post on your own thread for other specific charges question which all of us will endeavour to answer




Edit. I have now got all the information I require so please read all of this thread including the final part which adds the important dates for you to understand fully the way Advantage Gold and Unarranged Borrowing Fees work.

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My statement Sept 30 2002 shows

service fee 5 aug -1 sept 6.00


October 31 2002 - Charges 6.00 (there were no other charges that month)

then same £6 each mont hthrough to

31 Jan 2003

Charges 11 dec 2002 a/c xxxxxxx £2.05

noadgold fees until

then 30 april

charges 04 April a/c xxxxxxx 6.00

then same every month at end of month for previous month. Is this the info you wanted?

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Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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Yes partially thanks Kate and gizmo111, I would also like the date when the charge went from £9 to £10 so we can have dates when the charge changed. One last one, I need someone who was charged Unarranged Borrowing throughout 2002, so that the date from when the charges were shown individually ie £14 Unarranged Borrowing and £6 Advantage Gold fee, to all together ie £20 with both charges together. We are all close to the info I need to get the Stickie on it.

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Yes partially thanks Kate and gizmo111, I would also like the date when the charge went from £9 to £10 so we can have dates when the charge changed. One last one, I need someone who was charged Unarranged Borrowing throughout 2002, so that the date from when the charges were shown individually ie £14 Unarranged Borrowing and £6 Advantage Gold fee, to all together ie £20 with both charges together. We are all close to the info I need to get the Stickie on it.


31 jan 02 - Unarranged Borrowing £14 (£14 per period)

28 Feb 02 - Unarranged Borrowing £14

and MAr 02

and apr 02

and may 02


and then my account was in credit ever since so I have no more charges -s orry

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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thanks, so I throw the question open again to the forum for further info to concrete in the information I have already posted

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I will look later, i have a few £14 unarranged borrowings on my account...

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23.08.06 requested copy statements via phone, was promised call back (it never came) :mad:

25.08.06 Statements recieved :)

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I am still awaiting the final bits or info before I ask the thread to be closed and a stickie on this so to clarify i have one last question which requires a one month answer.


Was it October, November or December 2002 when Unarranged Borrowing and Advantage Gold was lumped together as one charge, which would have been £20?

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No Advantage Gold here but I did have continuous unarranged borrowing fees throughout 2002.


Upto and including 30/09/2002 it was listed as "unarranged borrowing fee" and from 31/10/2002 it is listed as "charges with a date and my account number".

  • NatWest - WON
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  • Non compliance with the Data Protection Act letter sent 02/08/06
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msrobinson- I think that answers my question and thank you to all who have responded with the last bits of info that I required. I hope to get a stickie on this and will make one final post on my clarifications.

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Important dates for Advantage Gold


As of October 2002 The Advantage Gold fee was £6

From September 2003 The Advantage Gold fee was £9

From July 2005 The Advantage Gold Fee was £10

And finally From June 2006 The advantage Gold fee is £12.


Additional note added 14/11/2006 It has come to my attention that during 2002/4 I believe some people trialled new benefits on Advantage Gold for the cost of £7.50.



NatWest put together charges for Advantage Gold and Unarranged Borrowing together from 31/10/2002 so that the charge for Advantage Gold and Unarranged Borrowing was not two separate charges but one fee.



This guide should clarify and clearly help you to distinguish penalty fees for Unarranged Borrowing which you can claim and Advantage Gold service charges that you cannot claim.


Good Luck to everyone claiming.

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That answers a major question that I've been searching for through the forum for a few days now. I can recalculated my charges. I am missing 2 bank statements in total. Should I send a letter requesting these or should I just go with the statements I have? Also I'm very unsure about the interest that is charged each month. Can I claim that back? I unsure about making the first move and getting it right, although I feel I'm almost ready.

It's just a waiting game.....

:p;):lol: 8-)

Nat West Won = £4008 03/07 :D

Prelim Letter to Cap One - 25/01/08

Rejection Letter to Cap One - 03/02/08

LBA to Cap One - 11/02/08

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Welcome - 25/01/08

Received Statements - 08/02/08

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We have just got,and gone through our statements today,and we have come across figures like the ones mentioned above,whereby the 2 fees were lumped together.


So it looks like we'll now have to go back,and deduct the £9 AG fee from our figures.



S.A.R sent Monday 21/8/06,by recorded delivery.

S.A.R delivered Tuesday 22/8/06.

Statements arrived today,1/9/06

Prelim letter sent by recorded delivery 16/9/06

'Get lost' letter received 21/9/06

LBA sent 25/9/06

14 day LBA deadline expires 9/10/06

2nd 'Get lost' letter received 29/9/06

MCOL completed and sent 16/10/06

Notice of Issue arrived 18/10/06

AQ sent back to court,and letter sent to Cobbetts 25/11/06

Cobbets AQ received 7/12/06

Offer made 14/12/06,and declined

16/01/07 Still awaiting a better offer

Success.£1425.42 delivered this morning.

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this Thread Is Complete So Please Do Not Post Any Further On This. Post On Your Own Thread And All The Cag Will Help. Thank You To All Who Have Helped Get This Information Correct But This Thread Needs No Further Comments. If You Like The Thread Please Feel Free To Click The Scales On The Top Right Hand Side And I Will See The Comments. If You Believe Any Information Is Incorrect Please Use Private Message(pm).



thank You

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I am adding one last post as the site is still being asked what charges you can claim against so here it goes.

1) Paid Referral Fees- Yes

2) Card Misuse Charge- Yes

3) Default Fee- Yes

4) Unarranged Borrowing Fee/ Excess Borrowing- Yes

5) Unpaid Direct Debit/ Standing Order/ Cheque- Yes

6) Advantage Gold- No as it is a service charge and not a PENALTY charge



This should make you absolutely clear what you can and cannot claim in charges. I am in the process of trying to clarify the interest on charges from 2000 and how it works but that is on a separate thread. Please do not post on thread further but Private Message me for any clarification on charges specifically and NOT interest at the moment.


Thank you and please read this in it entirety.

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Have decided to add some additional notes to this thread on the definition of REFERRAL FEES this fee seems to be causing the most difficulty in defining.


Paid Referral Fees/ Referral Fees- This is when the bank pays a Direct Debit or Standing Order that takes you over your agreed overdraft facility or overdrawn if you do not have one by £26 or more.


As I have said previously this is completed unless there is something that I have missed. On thing may be added as I am awaiting news on one last thing. Please do not post futher on here as I will be happy to answer questions on charges via Private Message or on your own thread.


Once again Good Luck to everyone claiming

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Hello again natweststaffmember


I am working from Current account statements with no arranged overdraft


Can i claim back the Excess borrowing as below ?


"excess borrowing"


From the statement


"Should you overdraw without arrangmentyou will be charged our unarranged borrowing rate which is currently 29.5%PA"


Excess borrowing 6 Days @ £3.50 = £21.00



Is this acceptable for me to claim ?





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if a person is in default on an advantage gold acct, no longer paying in money to cover loans and overdrafts etc with natwest but still has the OD so cant close the account is there a way we can force them to change the account type from AG to regular? they are adding fees every month for something this person cannot use

me against the abbey Paid in full (donation made)

me against the woolwich Paid in full(donation made)

me against HSBC Paid in full(donation made)



beware the scrapbooker, for she has a long memory and sharp knives :lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...

As this has proved to be a very good starting point for charges then I have decided to add one last part to this thread and that is the charges and their definitions. I will quote directly from NatWest's own fees leaflet.

I have given examples to make it easier to understand.




"If you exceed your arranged overdraft facility, or if you go overdrawn without prior arrangement." SO say you have £100 overdraft and the charges take you over that limit you will be charged unarranged borrowing fee at the end of the following month.


UNPAID (historically called UNPAID R/P)


"If you go overdrawn beyond your agreed overdraft amount, we may return your cheques unpaid or be unable to pay a Standing Order or Direct Debit" What that means is that if you have a DD for £20 and you do not have enough money in the account, it will be returned unpaid and a charge is levied.




"If you use your NatWest Servicecard or Cashcard whem there is insufficient funds in your account." What this in practical terms is that when the transaction actually goes through you account when the account is already overdrawn.





"Any items we choose to pay which result in or increases an unarranged overdraft." For example, if you have an overdraft of £100 and the DD/SO takes you over that amount, the bank may decide to pay it rather than return it but still charge you.





"If you break your agreement with us and we have cause to issue a Default Notice requiring you to either repay the debt or remedy your breach of the agreement, we will charge you £30 for our administrative costs in issuing a Default Notice." I won't give an exa,ple on this one but it is a penalty charge.


The above should allow you to quickly identify and understand NatWest Penalty charges so that you can identify and understand what has happened and that they can be reclaimed by you.


Good Luck and this thread is now complete

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NWSM, I'm doing a claim for my friend and one of the charges is £10 for a "stopped cheque fee", all of a sudden, it came to me this might be a genuine fee for stopping a cheque at customer's request, rather then a penalty, can you maybe shed some light?



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