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PCN for motorbike parked in unsigned no loading area

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Hi gang,

 

I was dropping off my cousin today at his flat in the city centre and was away from my bike at his front door for a couple of minutes while it was parked outside on the street. His flat is up two flights of stairs above a shop on the street in question and we were carrying heavy rucksacks containing his washing. It took us a couple of minutes to climb the stairs to his flat and then drop off his washing. When you go upstairs, the front door to the hallway closes automatically behind you. When I finished saying goodbye I went back down the stairs and opened the door and found I had been given a council PCN for code 02

 

"parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street while waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force", the observed time was less than 45 seconds (13:26:59 to 13:27:43). I was probably away from the bike for about 5-6 minutes tops.

 

The bike wasnt actually on the road, it was parked on the pavement next to a set of bollards that seperate off the street from a nearby pedestrian area (in such a way as to not obstruct people on the pavement). The only signs I could find to do with parking was a pedestrian area sign opposite which marked the pedestrian area and its end. The road has double yellow lines.

 

On the other side of the bollards the road is a pay and display area which I believe comes under the city inner controlled zone parking rules which do not allow motorcycles to park in pay and display areas.

 

I think this is a long shot but does anybody think I have a chance of appealing it bearing in mind I wasnt actually on the road itself?

Bike PT 06-July-10a.jpg

06-07-10_1344.jpg

06-07-10_1339.jpg

06-07-10_1341.jpg

06-07-10_1343.jpg

Edited by GreyArea
more info

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Hi,

 

The fact that the bike was parked 'off the road' makes no difference. The pavement will be covered by the same restriction. In fact you could have got a PCN for that o it's own!

 

Having said that, the lines seem a tad worn to me and the signs seem to also be passed their sell by date so i'm not sure that there is any mileage in persuing that line of defence. But if you were within the pedestrian area, then the lines would not be necessary so long as the signs were correctly positioned at the ends of the area.

 

No doubt other caggers will comment so don't take my opinion as gospel yet!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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After 6pm the bollards go down and vehicles often park up in the pedestrian area, I have also seen deliveries taking place during the day to the shops along the road. I have parked there several times before in the same place and never had any bother. The pay and display area also loses its restrictions after 6pm when you can park free till 8am.

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I have found this site which looks helpful

 

PenaltyChargeNotice.co.uk: Parking: 02: Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street...

 

and it refers to some appeals on loading and unloading

 

PenaltyCharge Notice.co.uk - Parking - Parking Adjudicators Decisions

 

I'm looking at it now and wondering if dropping off your cousins washing

counts as loading and unloading.....?

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BTW how do I get my pictures to be bigger, I can hardly see the writing on the picture of my PCN?

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bump

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I have found this site which looks helpful

 

PenaltyChargeNotice.co.uk: Parking: 02: Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street...

 

and it refers to some appeals on loading and unloading

 

PenaltyCharge Notice.co.uk - Parking - Parking Adjudicators Decisions

 

I'm looking at it now and wondering if dropping off your cousins washing

counts as loading and unloading.....?

 

Loading and unloading on a motorbike? I doubt it!

 

If you were parked during the hours of the restriction, then what is your argument? Personally, I'm surprised you didn't get done for parking on the pavement. Use Photobucket.com to re-post your pics so we can take a closer look but I don't hold out much hope to be honest.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Couriers do it all the time.

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Can you link us to the location on google street view and confirm that the signage seen is the same as present day?

 

It's possible the signage is not up to scratch and may give you a get out clause.

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Not too sure about the courier thing, been reading about bike couriers getting tickets all over london despite several rulings both for and against in various bits, same also applies to pavement parking...

 

see here

http://www.motorcycleparking.com/parking_tips.shtml

 

"Non commercial vehicles

If your vehicle is not a commercial or collection vehicle (including multi-drop and courier), then the loading / unloading must be necessary not convenient. It would be deemed necessary if you are loading / unloading heavy or bulky items or if you have a large number of items. However there is no exemption for shopping (unless the goods have been pre-purchased - which may allow you to be exempt).

 

The vehicle must be moved immediately the loading / unloading has finished."

 

also here

http://www.motorcycleparking.com/footway_pavement_parking.shtml

 

and here for more info

http://www.parkingticket.co.uk/sh.html

 

any more advice would be greatly appreciated

 

 

(great idea about hiding your plates though, anyone done it and got away with it........?

Edited by GreyArea
more info

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(great idea about hiding your plates though, anyone done it and got away with it........?

 

Obscured registration marks

(1) An authorised officer of a London Authority or a parking attendant acting in the course of his duties as such may remove anything which obscures a registration mark or any part of a registration mark fixed on a vehicle.

(2) None of the persons mentioned in subsection (3) below is to have any liability to any other person for damages or otherwise (whether at common law or otherwise) arising out of anything done or omitted to be done in the exercise or purported exercise of the power under subsection (1) above.

(3) Those persons are a borough council, Transport for London, any employee of a borough council or Transport for London, and any authorised officer, parking attendant or person by whom a parking attendant is employed.

(4) Subsection (2) above does not apply—

(a) if the act or omission is shown to have been in bad faith;

(b) to liability arising out of a failure to exercise due care and attention;

© so as to prevent an award of damages made in respect of an act or omission on the ground that the act or omission was unlawful by virtue of section 6(1) of the Human Rights Act 1998 (c. 42).

(5) Subsection (2) above is without prejudice to any other exemption from liability (whether at common law or otherwise).

(6) Any person who intentionally obstructs any authorised officer acting in the exercise of his powers under this section shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

(7) In this section—

  • “authorised officer”, in relation to a London authority, means—
    (a)
    any employee of that authority;
     
    (b)
    any person by whom, in pursuance of arrangements made with the authority, any functions under this section fall to be discharged; or
     
    ©
    any employee of any such person,
     
     
     
    who is authorised in writing by the authority to act in relation to this section;
  • “parking attendant” has the same meaning as in section 82(1) of the 1991 Act;
  • “registration mark” means a registration mark assigned to a vehicle by the Secretary of State under section 23 of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act

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G&M,

 

Should the legislation not have been updated now that "Parking Attendants" exist no more? :D


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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G&M,

 

Should the legislation not have been updated now that "Parking Attendants" exist no more? :D

 

They do where I live!

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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G&M,

 

Should the legislation not have been updated now that "Parking Attendants" exist no more? :D

 

No because the legislation it refers back to has been amended to take the TMA 2004 into account.

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Hmmm bit confused here? the wording is such that surely that legislation only refers to TfL and Mr Johnson's little empire, how about outside the great metrolop*ss....?

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Hmmm bit confused here? the wording is such that surely that legislation only refers to TfL and Mr Johnson's little empire, how about outside the great metrolop*ss....?

 

You are correct it only applies to London, however unless any damage was done to the vehicle there is nothing to stop anyone moving a covering and its also illegal to park a vehicle on the road without displaying its VRM.

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Well gang, managed to get it disallowed on the loading and and unloading rule.

 

Thanks for the advice once again G&M Well done.

 

Sailor Sam, Re your 9th July advice, thats twice now your advice has been a bit too pessimistic, maybe time to take a leaf out of G&M's book and dig a bit deeper in the rule book, remember......

 

Nil Carborundum.

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Well gang, managed to get it disallowed on the loading and and unloading rule.

 

Thanks for the advice once again G&M Well done.

 

Sailor Sam, Re your 9th July advice, thats twice now your advice has been a bit too pessimistic, maybe time to take a leaf out of G&M's book and dig a bit deeper in the rule book, remember......

 

Nil Carborundum.

 

Maybe if you didn't park in dodgy ways and on pavements then you would'nt need to come here for advice in the first place. My post (#2) gave you a closing comment 'don't take my opinion as gospel yet!' So your comment is un-called for.

 

G & M obviously found you a loop hole which you successfuly exploited so my guess is that you were lucky on this occasion. Whether you actually deserved to be 'let off' is a different matter.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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The loading exemption is not a loop hole at all.

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Sailor Sam, nobody was let off, the loading exemption is there for that reason.

 

The ticketing officer either didnt know the rules himself or issued the ticket thinking I'd be stupid enough to just pay up and not to research the charge on a website like this.

 

As for your comment in the original post, well I didnt ask for your opinion, I asked for advice, and my own comment was supposed to be taken as a lighthearted riposte against taking too pessimistic a view of things, however I'm not going to get in a flame war over it, the matter stands as it is and the ticket was challenged on advice from other contributors who appear to be a bit more knowledgable, whether I deserved to be "let off" is again your opinion and is not needed.

 

Once again, thanks to those who did a bit of digging for me

Edited by GreyArea
grammar

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Hi,

 

The fact that the bike was parked 'off the road' makes no difference. The pavement will be covered by the same restriction. In fact you could have got a PCN for that o it's own!

 

Having said that, the lines seem a tad worn to me and the signs seem to also be passed their sell by date so i'm not sure that there is any mileage in persuing that line of defence. But if you were within the pedestrian area, then the lines would not be necessary so long as the signs were correctly positioned at the ends of the area.

 

No doubt other caggers will comment so don't take my opinion as gospel yet!

 

 

There was some advice for you to explore there but i'll let you have the last word.

 

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.


Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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