Right to Collect deceased persons M+S Chargecaed debt

[Kholoshian]

Hi all,

 

I wonder if someone could shed a little light on the following for me.

 

My mother-in-law sadly passed away last april without leaving a will. Eventually, probate was granted and my wife and her 2 sisters became administrators of the estate.

 

One of the accounts held was an M&S &More Credit Card. They were duly informed and a copy of the death certificate was prompty sent to them.

 

Since then my wife has been constantly sent letters asking when settlement of the account will be made. My wife has dutifully and patiently on each occasion phoned and updated M&S on the state of the 'estate' - that is to say 'there is nothing happening'. The only asset left to the estate was my mother-in-law's house which due to the poor housing market has remained unsold.

 

M&S on each occasion have been nothing short of 'offensive'. They have demanded to know which estate agent is dealing with the property, who my wife's Solicitor is and numerous other demands. My wife has (understandably) been a little upset with M&S and their handling of this matter.

 

My questions are several;

 

1. Does an unsecured credit card debt have to be paid back from any proceeds of the sale of assets from an estate?

 

2. Does my wife as an administrator of the estate have the right to ask M&S to provide proof of their right to collect the debt (a CCA request) or is that only applicable to the original account holder ?

 

3. Is there anything we can formally do to stop M&S harping on about this debt and causing my wife distress?

 

Hope you can help

 

Many thanks

 

Kholo

 

PS apologies if i have posted this in the wrong place !

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/226411-1st-credit-dead-client.html

from post 37 onwards

 

dx

[twofoot]

Whilst I'm no legal boffin I would do the following. Firstly stop talking to them on the phone, everything in writing from on. If I told you your mam borrowed a grand off me would you pay it? I'm sure you wouldn't, at least not without verifying the debt. In which case You should send them a letter explaining you are the executor of the estate and asking them to proove the debt by means of a signed and properly executed credit agreement along with statement of account. I wouldn't go through the normal CCA route. That should see them off.

[palomino]

1. I believe yes. But others may be better informed.

2. Not only do you have the right to ask for proof you have a duty to do so. If the repayment was made without proof then the other legatees might have a claim against you as administrator.

3. Lodge a formal complaint with M&S, and follow it up very prompty with a complaint to the FOS if M&S do not respond.

[Kholoshian]

Thanks all - food for thought.

 

Palomino -

2. Is there a particular letter for this or is it like a CCA request?

3. on what basis would i contact the FOS?

[palomino]

2. Not that I'm aware of. Draft up a letter saying basically that, as you are the administrator, you must have proof of any outstanding debts and therefore you now request proof that Mrs XXX owed anything to M&S.

Flesh this out. Put it up for review if you wish to do so.

3. On the basis that M&S are behaving unreasonably. On reflection this is probably better direct to the OFT.

 

As you are the administrator then you are the one calling the cards. You should deal with it as best you can : honestly and honourably but cautiously given your lack of (understandable) experience in these matters. Don't be afraid to ask advice. Talk to a solicitor if necessary - but don't let a solicitor take over (they will be rubbing their hands with glee at thought of the fees they might get so you will have to be firm about this).

[Bazooka Boo]

I've just read a similar thread regarding a deceased's account, anyway, these may be of some use.

Dealing with death | This is Money

 

And here is M&S' complaints procedure;

Making a Complaint - Help Centre - M&S Money UK

 

If they ring in the future tell them to put their aggressive responses in a letter as you will not talk about financial matters over the phone, then put the phone down.

[diddydicky]

The credit card company is entitled to claim repayment from the estate of the deceased,

 

are you an executor? if so you are personally legally liable if you have been informed of the dent to ensure that the creditor is paid (unless there are insufficient funds from the estate after fees in which case as an unsecured creditor they would have to join the queueu

 

however, if you get it wrong they can sue you as an executor so in THIS instance if you think there may be a problem i would take legal advice(you can charge the cost of this advice to the estate)

 

i suspect the creditor is worried that you might be stonewalling them.

 

A letter from the estate agent dealing with the sale or your solicitor should appease them and get them off your back i would have thought.

 

why start WW3 at a time when you dont need the hassle

[Kholoshian]

Hi,

 

Bit of a long one this. My wife's mum died alittle over a year ago (without a will) and my wife and her sisters went through the probate system and became administrators of the estate. Everything is just about tied up and sorted now apart from one thing. Marks and Spencer have written asking for a sum of money that was apparently owing on an M&S chargecard. We haven't really got any documentation as to the nature of this account so weren't actually sure how to proceed. So my questions are these;

 

1. Should we just pay the amount from the estate without question?

2. Should we ask for some sort of details as to their right to collect the debt?

3. Are we actually entitled to do this as admistrators of the estate?

4. What sort of letter should we write - is there a template or something similar we could use?

 

I'm sure that this is probably totally above board on M&S's part but we thought that perhaps we should check.

 

I hope someone can shed some light on this.

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Kholo

[dx100uk]

so its taken a year for them to ask for this money?

were you not getting statements etc , in the meantime since her death?

 

dx

[Kholoshian]

Hi Dx,

 

Thanks for the reply. No it hasn't taken them a year. It took over 6 months for probate and letters of administration to be issued - it was a bit messy.

 

There were some old statements in my mother in laws effects and my wife wrote (an an admistrator) to M&S to inform them of her mother's death - but to be honest we assumed that there wasn't going to be much to pay, if anything as the only paperwork we had was from old statements.

 

The bottom line here is that my wife needs to be sure that she is carrying out due diligence in the disposal of anything from her mothers estate (including paying debts) because this does have an impact on the share of the estate to remaining relatives.

 

So, it goes back to my questions in my original post. Does she have a right to the relevant documentation (original agreement) as an administator and what sort of letter should she write.

 

Sorry, forgot to say - no we weren't getting statements since her mothers death. M&S were informed immediately - so i guess things like paper statements stop at the point of death. All we have had is a letter stating the amount owed and asking when payment will be made.

 

Many thanks

 

Kholo

Edited July 6, 2010 by Kholoshian
Omission

[postggj]

Well I Would Be Asking For An Up To Date Statement To Begin With

 

I Bet They Would Have Included A Hell Of A Lot Of Unlawful Penalty Charges

[Kholoshian]

Hi postggj,

 

Why would you think "They Would Have Included A Hell Of A Lot Of Unlawful Penalty Charges"

[postggj]

Interest

Late Payment Fees

Missed Payment Fees

 

Even Though Your Mother Passed Away

 

Its All Computer Generated, No Manual Imputt

 

Thats Why You Need To See A Statement From When She Passed Away To Todays Date

 

Been At This To Long

 

Ive Yet To See A Caring Creditor Where Money Is Involved

[Kholoshian]

I see your point.

 

But the account would stop accruing interest from the minute they were informed of her death.

[dx100uk]

oh no it won't.

 

they'll keep fleecing her RIP>

 

two ways.

 

one

you write stating who/what you are.

state that there is no equity in the estate, please write it off

 

two

SAR them.

reclaim them charges & mis-sold ppi

then clear the rest

 

dx

[Kholoshian]

Ok,

 

Have to be careful here.

 

1. An administrator is appointed by the court and has legal responsibilities

2. There is equity in the estate and to say otherwise would be fraudulent.

 

All we need to know is do we have the right to see the original paperwork in order to ascertain whether M&S have a right to collect monies owed against the estate. If so, what sort of letter format should we use?

 

Thanks all

 

Kholo

[dx100uk]

cca them.

 

dx

[MARTIN3030]

Moved here.

[rameses_qc]

The first call on a deceased's estate is reasonable funeral expenses. If there is any money left in the estate, then debts should be paid out of this. Administrators are legally obligated to ensure that ONLY persons who can prove their debts will get paid. It is NOT the administrator's money, it is held in trust for the beneficiaries so you need to be absolutely sure that M and S are entitled to be paid. You need to ensure also that all unlawful penalties, interest and PPI are removed You should ask for the information under S77/78 Consumer credit act, enclosing £1 - which you may take from the estate - as well as the postage (reasonable administrator's expenses)

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Kholoshian,

My sympathies for your loss.

As above, you need to send for a copy of the Credit Agreement and statement of account. As you are aware, as a responsible administrator it is your duty to ensure that any claims on the estate are valid and accurate.

To ensure accuracy, I would also send a Subject Access Request emphasising that you require a breakdown of all charges added to the account, as if they provide proof, in the shape of a valid agreement, then these charges can be claimed to offset the balance owing.

You'll need to send a copy your authority to act with the requests.

You may well find if they realise you are querying the account they may offer to write it off "as a gesture of goodwill". However many creditors are notoriously uncaring and ruthless following a death.

The links for the template letters (CCA and SAR) are in my signature.

Kind regards,

Elsa x

[Undercover-Elsa]

Snap Rameses

[Kholoshian]

Rameses & Elsa,

 

Thanks so much guys - all that info really helps. I send off the relevant requests and then wait to see what the response is.

 

I'll update later.

 

Thanks again

Kholo