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Welcome insurances, Gardx and VT

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Hi everyone,

 

This is quite a long post, hope it all makes sense.

 

Back in March 07 I brought a car from a local dealer and as my credit at the time wasn't very good I had to go through Welcome.

 

In September 08 we started to have trouble with the Auto gearbox and was quoted £1500 to replace. So I rang Welcome and said that I needed a smaller car and could they help and to my amazement the said yes and could I ring their local car dealership to arrange a appointment.

 

So at the end of November they took our old car back and we got a newer car. We also paid a £200 deposit (receipt below). At the same time we took out the shortfall and warranty.

They also said that we weren't eligable for the £250 cash back (can't remeber why)

 

When we got back I did some research and found I could get both the shortfall and warranty insurances for about £800 less than we had signed up for. So I rang Welcome and cancelled both insurances, they weren't happy but tough. They arranged for the paperwork to be sent and signed at our local Welcome branch.

 

I have been looking through the new paperwork and the deposit I paid has dissapeared and it was again for 48 months when I had already paid a months payment.

 

Since having the car I haven't missed a payment or had any calls etc, but I want to know if as the deposit is missing from the agreement will this effect us if we want to VT the car after we have paid the amount.

 

Hope it makes sense

 

I have been on the phone with Welcome all morning as it seems that when I resigned the new contract it was over another 48 mnths when I had already paid 2 payments of £287.

 

Am I right in thinking that the amount of credit should of gone down by the two months payments I have made.

 

Welcome are saying the two payments were taken off the new account straight away, but the interest was calculated on the first amount which to me is wrong?

 

Just done some calculations and would like someone to verify this for me.

1st agreement payments were £287.92

2 payments were made which works out at £575.84

 

2nd agreement payments were £260.56 based on the original agreement price.

If the 2 payments had been taken off the resigned agreement the amount to be financed would of been £8661 making the monthly payment of £245

 

Welcome have said that the two payments have been taken of the 2nd agreement, if this is so than I have been charged another £205 in interest.

 

Am I right or am I confused.

 

Thanks

 

anybody please!!

 

just_jue

 

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomeoldcca1.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomeoldcca2.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomereceipt.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomeoldcca3-1.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomecashreceipt.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomenewcca1.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomenewcca2.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomenewcca3.jpg

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww185/just_jue/Welcome/Welcomenewcca4.jpg

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Yes i add up to the same they have seemingly taken your deposit and 2 months worth of payments and not reflected them in your figures on your new agreement. You need to file a written complaint to Welcome head office in Nottingham asking for this money to be credited to your account and backdated to the start and therefore the monthly payments to reduce and the extra interest they have charged needs to be refunded.

 

Give them 8 weeks to get it done - if they don't go straight to the FOS.

 

Welcome are very good at playing the ignoring game so don't give up.

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Welcome have sent me out a statement and it doesn't make sense:

 

02-12-09 Disb Transfer - Debit £9536.00 - Balance £12805.90 (£299 more than on agreement)

02-12-08 Eerg Recov - Credit £299.00 - Balance £12805.90

02-12-08 Payment from Transfer - Credit £287.92 - Balance £12517.98

02-12-08 Payment from Transfer - Credit £287.92 - Balance £12230.06

31-12-08 Payment - Credit £260.56 - Balance £11969.50

31-01-09 Payment - Credit £260.56 - Balance £11708.94

28-02-09 Payment - Credit £260.56 - Balance £11448.38

31-03-09 Payment - Credit £260.56 - Balance £11187.82

29-04-09 GARDX Refund - Credit £299 - Balance £10888.82

30-04-09 Payment - Credit £260.56 - Balance £10628.26

31-05-09 Payment - Credit £260.56 - Balance £10367.70

12-06-09 Misc Refund - Credit £299 - Balance £10068.70

30-06-09 Payment - £260.56 - Balance £9808.14

03-07-09 GARDX GWC - Debit £299 - Balance £10107.14

 

I really don't understand how the openeing balance can be £299 more than on the agreement, I can see they have refunded it later on but the figures are wrong to my re-signed agreement.

 

Thanks

 

This is the letter I will be sending:

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Regarding the above account I have a few issues which I would appreciate some explanation.

 

On the 12-10-2008 I purchased a car from your Maidstone branch on agreement , at the time I signed up for GARDX protection, Mechanical Breakdown Insurance and Shortfall Extra Insurance.

 

After a bit of research I found I could purchase these items for £800 less than they were sold to me for.

 

I rang and cancelled the insurance and was informed that I would have to sign a new agreement at our local branch of Crawley, while all the new paperwork was being sorted out and sent to the Crawley branch two payments of £287.92 were debited from my account.

 

After further inspection of the agreement there are a few issues I have with it:

 

1. All that should have come off the second agreement was the insurances which I cancelled, the original price was wrong and the deposit of £200 I paid in cash is missing.

 

2. The total credit price on the 2nd agreement was back at £12507.90, I have already paid £575.84, so this should have brought the credit price down to £11932.06.

 

3. The agreement term was back up to 48 months when I have already paid two months payments.

 

I rang your customer service department with my issues last week, after speaking to 5 different departments and various people who didn’t want to either help or entertain me I was told that the two payments I have made have been taken off the £12507.90 amount, by my calculations this will cost me another £52 in interest.

 

During the telephone conversation I asked for a statement and was told that there is a charge of £10.

A statement has been sent to me and I do hope that I have not been charged for this.

 

There are also errors on the statement dated 16-07-09 these are as follows:

 

1. 02-12-09 – The DISB transfer debit is £12805.90 which is £299 more than on the agreement?

 

2. 29-04-09 GARDX Refund – Why is this on the statement when it was already on the first agreement?

 

3. 12-06-09 – Misc Refund – Why?

 

4. 03-07-2009 – GARDX Rev Debit of £299 – Why ?

 

Can you please also explain to me why we was not entitled to the £250 cash back?

The salesman did tell me that we were not entitled to it but without explanation.

 

I would like an acknowledgement letter within 7 days regarding these matters, and a full explanation within 21 days, all correspondence must be by letter only.

 

If no response is received within this time I will be left with no option but to take the matter to the Financial Ombudsman service.

 

Lets see what response I get from this

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Hi,

 

Still no acknowledgement from Welcome, what would be the best course of action?

Who would be the best to look over the agreements for me?

 

Thanks

 

JJ

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Write to the MD of Welcome outlining your complaint.....give them 14 days to remedy your complaint or you will take them to the FOS.....


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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Hi, Thanks 42man will do, but I thought Welcome had fired all their top knobs, probably best to send it to the tea boy (will get a better response).

Just been on Welcome sorry excuse for a web-site - they are only giving out top up loans at 80% APR. How much long can this company last?

 

JJ

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Always start a complaint at the top if possible.....then let it get passed down if need be.....top management of companies don't normally get direct personal complaints and are very much in tune with a business showing a 'caring customer oriented ethos'.....at worst they will pass it down to a customer service manager.......who will 'jump' if senior management ask them to do something....


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

DEBT COLLECTION LETTER/SAR/AGREEMENT TEMPLATES ARE HERE - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?65-legislation

 

IF WE HAVE BEEN HELPFUL -PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE GIVE A DONATION TO HELP US TO CONTINUE HELPING YOU

 

I AM HAPPY TO RECEIVE PM's AND I WILL RESPOND IF I FEEL I CAN ASSIST BUT WHEN YOU DO CAN YOU PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD ON WHICH YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO COMMENT - THANK YOU

 

IMPORTANT - If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.

Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are/or could be seen to be inappropriate for posting on the main forum.Site rules explain this in more detail.

If you are approached by private message with a view to asking you to visit another website,please inform the site team via the report icon.

 

Forum rules - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/9-forum-rules-please-read.html

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So am I right that David Postings is the MD of Welcome this week and he can be located at Nottingham.

 

Thanks

 

JJ

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No, David P is history!

 

Write to:

Welcome Financial Services Compliance

Ruddington Fields Business Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

 

Also, if you can, send this with your complaint:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Don't sign your letter, use a crossed PO and keep your receipts. Send recorded delivery.

T2

 

 

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Hi, Is it worth asking for a CCA as the agreement was only setup in Oct 08?

 

Just before I send a follow up letter, is it worth me sending a CCA request for the agreement as it was only signed in December?

 

Also just check my credit file, both the October and December accounts are showing as active! SO it looks like I have over £22000 debt to them.

 

The October account should of be satissfied.

 

The sooner this company takes its last breath the better for everyone

 

JJ

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Still not a thing from them, it was signed for on the 22nd July.

Should I wait any longer or should I go straight the FOS?

 

Thanks

 

JJ

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I had no response to my letter so I got in touch with the FOS and surprise surprise Welcome then wrote to me saying they will look into my complaint.

Just had a look at my credit file and Welcome have mucked up there as well it is showing both accounts are active and that owe them nearly £22,000 which will hamper me applying for any credit in the future. I have spoke to the CRA and they have wrote to Welcome but asking them to revise the entry but i'm not holding my breath.

 

JJ

 

Another thing.

We had to have the GARDX paint work extra at £299, which we didn't see the point of but had to have it, could I complain about this as well?

 

Thanks

 

JJ

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Hi, by my reckoning Welcome have had 8 weeks to look into my complaints and I have had nothing back should I write them another letter or go straight to the FSO who I have already spoken to?

 

Thanks

 

JJ

 

I really need some help know, just had a letter from Welcome saying they had no knowledge of my complaint until the FOS had written to them, even though my letter was signed for in July.

Do I now resend the a copy of my complaint and have to wait agin for them to look into it or take my complaint up further with the FOS?

 

Thanks

 

JJ

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Just had a response to my complaint:

 

Final Response to your complaint:

 

I ackowledge receipt of Mr R letter dated 30 sept 2009, together with enclosure. I apologise that your letter dated 20 july was not responded to; I will ensure that feedback is given to the relevant manager, as this is clearly not acceptable.

 

When a customer requests to cancel their insurance within 30 days, their agreement is cancelled completely and rebooked without their insurances being attached. The purpose of this process is to put the customer ine exactly the same positition they would of been in at the start of their loan, had the insurances never been included.

 

This means that your second agreement, number 1234567, was set up to begin from the same date as your original agreement 7654321. All of the financial details were mirrored, with the exclusion of insurances. The original term of your loan remains the same.

 

You will see from agreement 1234567, that the amount of credit for the goods matches that on the agreement 7654321.

 

The cash price for the goods is shown on agreement 1234567 as being £xxxxx, which is the figure on agreement 7654321 after the deposit of your £200 deposit. Therefore, the amount borrowed to buy the car is the same on both agreements.

 

Whilst these details should of been shown exactly the same way on both agreements, the fact that they haven't has no detrimental affect on the interest applied to your agreement. However I am sorry for the confusion this has caused.

 

The two payments that you had already made under agreement numbered 1234567 were tansfered onto agreement 7654321. These show on your statement as 'payment by transfer' on 2 December 2008, and were applied to your new agreement as being effective from the same date they were ariginally paid.

 

The cost of Guardex has also been refunded back onto your new agreement. Unfortunately a second refund was subsequently also given for this, showing as 'mis refund' on 12 June 2009. This additional credit was then refused on 3 July 2009.

 

Under the consuemr credit act, we are required to provide a statement annually to customers. Any request for a statement addition to the annual document does attract a charge of £10, however I can confirm that you have not been charged for the statement we sent you.

 

You were provided with a discount from the purchase price of your vehicle in lieu of the £250 cash back payment.

 

I have arranged for our administration department to ensure that your files with the relevant credit reference agensies only show information regarding agreement 7654321, and that agreement 1234567 is deleted completely.

 

I am unable to respond to your query regarding the disb transfer of £xxxxxxx as I am unsure what information you refer to.

 

I do hope I have been able to provide the explanation you are seeking and I am sorry for any confusion that has occurred. If your still dissatisfied you may have the right to refer this matter to the FOS.

 

Yours sincerely

S F

 

 

They have answered some of the questions but others they have not.

In the show room there was no prices shown on any of the cars, and the salesman didn't mention 'cash price' just what the monthly payment was going to be, so how can I be sure that the discount was given, it was never shown on the original agreement.

The disclaimer we signed it we thought was to do with the car we was trading in (which was also on finance from Welcum).

The query I had about the disb figure is that on my statement they sent the original was £299 more than on the agreement.

 

I have made a complaint to the FOS and spoke to them after this letter and they have advised me not to write to Welcum again about this matter but to raise my complaint with them and let them look into it.

 

When I have any more info I will print it up.

 

Thanks for your time

 

JJ

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Just had an automated message from them on my phone reminding me my Direct Debit is due in the next couple of days (as if I didn't know)!

I better check my phone bill, knowing Welcome they will have probably reversed the charges!!!

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LOL

 

When I went for my car, the cash price wasn't mentioned either. I was only given what my monthly payments would be.

The cars inthe show room did have what I thought were price's but I was told to ignore what the board in the car window said. I think the "prices" that were shown in the window were a guide for the salesman, on what interest to charge.

 

I wish I knew what I know now, back then!!:shock:

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Yea, we will see what the FOS has to say on the matter

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I bet they didnt do the Gardx either!!

 

just write to them informing them that they have had more than 14 days to respond and as they havent you are putting the account into dispute.

 

So cancal your payments until it is rectified.

 

Im sure there is an account in dispute letter someplace.

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just jue

 

if you have had this account transfered under another account number due to insurances being cancelled, did you resign a new agreement as it is my understanding if your agreement does not match your credit agreement it may be unenforceable, just a thought

 

as you are being advised by fos i am sure they or other cagger's can confirm if this is correct?

 

essexboy

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In dispute letter :)

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account In Dispute

 

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

PRINT NAME, DONT SIGN (VERY IMPORTANT!!!)


I am a consumer just like you, please get a second opinion or investigate yourself on anything I advise as I am in no way legally trained. Everything I know has come from the Mighty CAG and fellow CAGGERS. :cool:

 

If I have helped in any way please click my reputation star and make a donation to CAG to enable us all to continue to help each other :cool:

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Thanks for the advice.

Another thing I noticed, when I got the statement I asked for in June the 'new' agreement started on the 1st December but after I complained we were sent our annual statement and the new agreement started in October, so they have changed the start date to nearly two months before we signed the 'new' one.

I don't think this is right either.

 

#Dibbothe3rd - they have responded to my complaint which I have type out above, they haven't answered all my complaints so I have raise my issues with the FOS.

#Essex boys - The agreement we signed was different to our original (they haven't put on the deposit we paid). I am reluctant to put the account into dispute as we have not paid more than a third and the FOS recommend that payments are kept up to date until they make a discussion.

 

I'm going to fight this until it get sorted as I believe there is some serious errors in the agreement (and by reading other peoples problems with Welcome, i'm not the only one).

 

Hi, now I have complained to the FOS, they have a copy of final response from Welcome how long does it normally take for the FOS to make a decision?

 

Thanks

 

JJ

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Thanks for the advice.

Another thing I noticed, when I got the statement I asked for in June the 'new' agreement started on the 1st December but after I complained we were sent our annual statement and the new agreement started in October, so they have changed the start date to nearly two months before we signed the 'new' one.

I don't think this is right either.

 

hi jj i have this issue on a personal loan agreement signed and money received oct - credit file and wf agreement say jan the following year this isnt correct as bank statement even shows payment before the dates they have given! :rolleyes:


I am a consumer just like you, please get a second opinion or investigate yourself on anything I advise as I am in no way legally trained. Everything I know has come from the Mighty CAG and fellow CAGGERS. :cool:

 

If I have helped in any way please click my reputation star and make a donation to CAG to enable us all to continue to help each other :cool:

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Just had a recorded message from Welcum saying as most people get paid earlier for christmas I can pay early - ahh bless em money must be tight for their christmas bonus - oh well let em starve

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:eek::eek::eek: I had one of those calls, last year....and guess what!

 

:eek: :eek::eek:THEY CHARGED ME £10.00 FOR THE CALL, :evil::evil:


ANYBODY WHO NEEDS INFO ON YOUR LEHMANS MORTGAGE

either SPML/PML/LMC/SPPL; the following are DIRECT tel#s,

of the investigating & prosecuting organisations: DONOT say you are from CAG-only directly affected or a concerned citizen.

 

1. Companies House: Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

2. CH : Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia(MD) for SPML/PML) @ 02920 380 643

3. CH : Mark Youde(accounts compliance) @ 02920 380 955

 

4. Companies Investigation Branch(CIB) : Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108

(part of the Insolvency Service) investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

5. CIB : Jeremy Pilcher('unofficial'-consumer/company lawyer) : @ 0207 637 6231

__________________

File YOUR 'Companies Investigation Branch'- CIB complaint online NOW!!!!

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/complaintformcib.htm

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suckers to them hubby gets paid NYE as normal not that they will be getting a penny on either account until i see some CCA's :D


I am a consumer just like you, please get a second opinion or investigate yourself on anything I advise as I am in no way legally trained. Everything I know has come from the Mighty CAG and fellow CAGGERS. :cool:

 

If I have helped in any way please click my reputation star and make a donation to CAG to enable us all to continue to help each other :cool:

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