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partial settlement v full and final


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I am pretty sure the fella is hiding behind some waffle he has probably said to loads of previous people. He is adamant that full and final will not happen. I will try speaking to someone else there and see if I get a similar response to the waffle he is saying.

 

He got back to me today and said he wasn't able to send out any offer in writing obviously I thne tols him to get stuffed, he then called back and said that actually he could and as though it was a big hassle for him to send a letter.

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that matters not.

 

what matters is the debt is marked as settled .

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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we've had this before on here with MBNA

threre was a very big thread a few months ago where a member had phone ping pong with a rep at MBNA

even to the extent of personal calls from the reps mobile.

 

turned out to be someone wanting to boost his commission and when it came down to it, would not mark the file settled.

 

some he was blown out.

 

don't trust anything they say on the phone.

 

have you investigated PPI and unlawful charges reclaim?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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do you remember anything about the post? any link reference etc. I have had two seperate calls now that seem like they are from mobile phones from seperate people at MBNA. I have called the numbers back and its gone to a landline.

 

Anyway all seems a little strange so I think I will investigate this further, I want to know what their motives are. I am not very confident about getting a full and final but want to do my best to get one.

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Dont speak to them on the phone they'll say anything and will always try and get you to agree on their terms. Do you know if your CCA is enforceable? As I said earlier if not then you are the one who can call the shots. I agree with DX100uk, you tell them the way its gonna be or get £1 pcm or nothing.

 

As for getting your credit files cleaned up, this is the tricky one, even if you do get it in writing it is never going to show the way you want it to, however write to them with your offer (but do not admit you owe the money) and make it a condition of settlement that they remove adverse data. If they refuse, then you could use the route I used and send a cheque with a letter containing clear terms of what cashing the cheque would mean ie. cancellation of balance, closure of account and clean up cra files, but and here is the but, using this route it will take a while for them to close the account and Im still fighting to get cra's cleaned up, so although legally I owe them nothing more, I have more of a fight on my hands to get the cra's cleaned up the way I want them to be.

 

Depends what you want to achieve, in my case I had alot of debt with not alot of money to clear it up, but getting rid of the debt was more important than a 'clean' credit file to me!

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Cheers guys, found that link re: MBNA calling constantly etc. The Cagger Dotty I think decided not to pay them in the end as they were not entirely convinced that the debt would be finished.

 

If I get a letter saying that they are not going to sell on the debt and not going to persue me for it again, then I am going to pay the amount they requested. I may be taking a risk but in all honesty I cant see a judge picking up the case and saying I owe this money with a letter like that behind me. The CCCS have said it is sufficent.

 

I have looked at unenforceablility and been burnt by various ratio money style organisations and quite frankly I am just not convinced that persuing that would be the best use of my time. Also the card was taken out after all this started so think I may be out of time.

 

If I pay £1k it stops a default and it wipes the debt, the risk is it may come to bite me in the ass in 5/6 yrs or sooner, well then we will cross that bridge and we will have our day in court. Someone has to go down this road so I might as well be a guinea pig for now.

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Ok the letter i got from northern rock says;

 

I am prepared to accept your proposal of £6,900 lump sum payment in full and final settlement of the above debt providing this is received on or before 31st July 2010.

 

Would you be happy with that or would you want them to add something else to it?

 

Cheers

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as long as they mark the debt as settled too.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Rennuz,

They have not agreed to my offer yet, but normally I would not settle for more than 20%. However EGG are in a different catergory than other creditors who do not have enforceable agreements. I know that PT is challenging them and the case has been heard at Mold and awaits the judges decision. I thought myself that if EGG win you will be lucky to negotiate any reduction, on the other hand if they lose the doors are open to seek a reduced F&F.

My advise to anyone would be work out how much you owe them say £5000. They offer you a settlement at 50% meaning you save £2500 on the debt, but should they lose to PT it may mean you have paid them £2500 and maybe they could have got nothing. I though would take the standpoint if you have money via whatever means to settle then they wont do this regardless for much less than 20% even if they do lose. Therefore you are gambling £1500 on the outcome of PT's case and I wonder what he would do?

Try them with another offer say 25% if they refuse then offer them 30% saying its your best and last one. If they still refuse it would not be against the law to go back on your word and up it again.

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  • 2 weeks later...

As I said rennuz, if it doesn't say full & final don't waste your money.

 

"Managed to find an envelope" absolutely priceless

 

With regards to the extra borrowing perfectly correct problem was it was a telephone call and they will say virtually anything to get cash.

 

 

Pumpytums

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Well I paid them £1055 yesterday, they sent me a letter and in it said;

 

Once the settlement has been fully approved on your account and payment has been received, I can confirm that no further action will be taken to recover the remaining balance.

 

Please be advised that your account will be registered as a partial settlement with the credit reference agencies.

 

In a few months it was going to default, I have the money now so thought I would get it off my back, I owed them £4800 so as far as I see it, its a result.

 

Whats the worse that can happen, they chase me for the balance plus interest further down the line. I go to court and show them the letter they sent to me. Then I report to you guys and tell you how I did. Sure there is a risk here but the way I see it I have written off £3700, CCCS have said this is OK and the letter is OK. If I didnt pay it would go to a default and I would still be paying them £45 a month via the CCCS so in a few yrs I would have paid £1055 anyway but now I dont have the default. Sure I could pay them £1 a month and leave it at that but a big factor here is I need to show a paid up credit file for my career so this makes sense for me.

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Once the settlement has been fully approved on your account and payment has been received, I can confirm that no further action will be taken to recover the remaining balance.

 

 

So does it mean that its not been approved and they can always come back and say it was not approved and chase you for rest of the amount? In my humble opinion this letter did not change anything for you and be prepared to be chased for rest of the debt. How cunning and deceptive of MBNA.

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From what I have read on here there are a lot of cynics on here who do not trust MBNA as far as they could throw them and when they speak on the phone I would tend to agree they are not the greatest to deal with but I honestly do not think they are that cunning or deceptive.

 

Letter said pay the money and the debt will be wiped. As far as I am concerned thats good enough for me and I think it would be good enough for a judge, it was good enough for the CCCS and I really dont see MBNA or whoever might take on any debt going to court if I have that letter in my hand. Has anyone actually been chased for a debt by MBNA and had it upheld by a court after they did a partial settlement?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Egg have agreed a Partial Settlement of 35% of the credit card debt that is owed. I am happy with that but they have sent a letter and it says; 'We acknowledge and agree that this sum is tendered and accepted as a partial settlement of all and any claims of either party arising or capable or arising whether under the above agreement or not'

 

What does that even mean, they egg fella said he didnt understand it but after speaking with his superiors they stated that this is as 'simple' as they could put it????

 

I argued the toss about the partial payment but they are not budging it has to be a partial settlement and not a full and final settlement.

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Partial settlement gives them leeway to sell the remainder of the debt to another DCA, who will then start the cycle of harassment, letters, court threats etc...

 

They would only sell the remainder however for a fraction of its worth. It might be worth you discussing this with them again, letting on you know how the 'system' works and increasing your offer slightly?

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'We acknowledge and agree that this sum is tendered and accepted as a partial settlement

of all and any claims of either party arising or capable or arising whether under the above agreement or not'

 

 

The problem arises over the alarming wording of partial settlement. If this is one part then by definition there can be another part to come later on. In court this could be successfully argued as such.

 

As letsdothis said, I believe Egg's anxious preoccupation is to say that this one settlement shall finalise for all time any present and future disputes including PPI, CCA enforceability, penalty charges, interest etc. They would not like to give away the words Full and Final Settlement over one dispute without guaranteed immunity from all possible future disputes.

 

Perhaps you could suggest to them the alternative wording such as "This discounted payment is accepted as full and final settlement of ALL financial claims which may arise between rennuz and Egg, at present and in the future, from either party."

 

 

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the full letter says;

 

'we're prepared to accept your offer of a partial settlement figure of £x This needs to be paid by 26th Aug.

 

In line with our obligations, we'll report the final status of this account to the various credit reference agencies as a partial settlement. This may impact on your ability to obtain credit in the future.

 

'We acknowledge and agree that this sum is tendered and accepted as a partial settlement of all and any claims of either party arising or capable or arising whether under the above agreement or at all'

 

If payment isnt received by the date above the account should still be maintained in accordance with your agreed T+C's'

 

I am happy with the partial settlement part and explanation, I have been down this road with MBNA and Nationwide, both of those are partial settlements but they sent me letters saying they will not chase me for money or sell the debt on. I understand they probably could but I would be happy to fight them in court with my letters as back up. Either way this is not my issue here my main concern is to whether this letter actually says that Egg will not chase me for money in the future and that my £1400 pays off the debt. Basically I want to know what that lawyer speak sentence actually means.

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the full letter says;

 

'we're prepared to accept your offer of a partial settlement figure of £x This needs to be paid by 26th Aug.

 

In line with our obligations, we'll report the final status of this account to the various credit reference agencies as a partial settlement. This may impact on your ability to obtain credit in the future.

 

'We acknowledge and agree that this sum is tendered and accepted as a partial settlement of all and any claims of either party arising or capable or arising whether under the above agreement or at all'

....

.... my main concern is to whether this letter actually says that Egg will not chase me for money in the future and that my £1400 pays off the debt. Basically I want to know what that lawyer speak sentence actually means.

 

Discounted payment as full and final settlement invariably come with a gagging clause, so not many cardholders have posted whether this hairsplitting text is standard Egg spiel. If they insist this is payment in part and not in full and will register part and not full on CRA, that's fair enough.

 

The fatal clause is "accepted as a partial settlement". In court it could be put that any layman will have understood partial settlement is not full settlement -- instalment payment? interim payment? Satisfaction today but not necessarily tomorrow, or next year if a new owner buys Egg. As you say, if Egg writes a letter to say that in public this is technically partial payment (I would prefer "discounted payment"), but in private they the thoroughly good eggs will declare unambiguously in writing that they accept this as full and final settlement for all time. Both sides undertake to accept this and make no further claims on ANY other aspect.

 

And they the thoroughly good eggs require you not to broadcast this concession and encourage other debtors to haggle. So if you cannot come back with info, then posting just a smiley will be understood.

Edited by Mistermind

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I offered Egg 50% F&F and it was declined.

I have since discovered that they sold me a single premium PPI on an older loan settled by one of their top up loans and I have reduced my offer by that sum plus the APR they added to the premium. Equates to 25% OF THE ORIGINAL LOAN. Will see what they have to say...

 

ps I have challenged Egg's deafult with the CRAs because the default sum is inaccurate due to the PPI

Advice and comments posted by The Debt Star reflect only my personal opinion and it is up to you alone to decide what action you should take. You should always seek independent legal advice from your own qualified legal advisor.

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I paid my 35% full offer yesterday, CCCS advised me that the letter they sent to me with the lawyer speak on it was OK and enough to satisfy all concerned that they should not be coming after me for the extra money. It will show as partially satisfied but again that is good enough for me. As a hint I told them when I asked for the reduced offer that I had been a customer for a long time, over 11 yrs and had also paid huge amounts of interest etc so really this reduced offer is not so bad. I tried 3 times and they eventually went for 35% and we are all happy. Remember though they will not go for a full and final, well they might if you are lucky but you may have to be satisfied with a partial settlement. In the end I am satisfied with that, no default just 6 mths worth of missed payments and a partial settlment, not such a bad outcome I think.

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  • 1 year later...

Just an update on this, Northern Rock took my settlement but then a default was put on my account, they kept then promising to remove it as they said in a letter to me that it was paid off in the end they just didnt so I sent the letter they sent me to equifax who go tin contact with them and because they didnt reply the debt was then taken off my file indefinitely. So its like it was never there and in the end they accepted a full payment of £6000, told them I was going to Australia to work.

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well done..see it can be done

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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