natwest summons for joined overdraft and loan

[harrassed senior]

How old is this overdraft and when did you last make a payment or acknowledge it. Are there any Charges included in the overdraft which you could re-claim.

[tedney]

Notice was issued in December 2007, agreed payments have been made monthly since, but now OC starting to chase OH (joint account) without OC direct contact, first by DCA and now in house DCA. There may be some charges, but only nominal.

[tedney]

Update

Having sent SAR I now have up to date statements, which confirm bank adding interest monthly, but I do not know at what rate. I am still paying monthly repayments, but this hardly covers interest:(. Case is stayed, obviously the longer it is stayed, the more interest is racking up. I cannot afford to increase payments. Other part of court case(same POC) is for loan that interst in not accumulating. Opinions please, what is my best course of action to stem this rising debt:mad:

Thanks

t

[pumpytums]

Hi tedney,

this may be of interest to you I have had a claim issued against me recently for an overdraft. Even though the amount on my CRF has increased the amount they have claimed has not it's less than the amount on my termination notice.

 

So I really don't understand why the amount they keep reporting increases probably some sort of tax dodge.

 

Pumpytums

[tedney]

Thanks for that pumpy, on my (their) POC's the amount is obviously lower now than they are currently reporting, they applied for interest from the court too, even though part of the amount of the claim included a loan. I spot a possible problem here too, in that I had the claim prior CAG knowledge, I have defended with claimed back charges and interest thereon, but did not ask for more details of the claim. Now, with their added monthly interest, this could wipe out my counterclaim eventually:confused:

[pumpytums]

Did they send a default notice under s76(1) and 98(1)?

 

If so have a read on the Statute law database and have a look at the link below. At my post

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-bank/257041-action-take-defaulted-overdraft-2.html#post2984203

 

I have been told a overdraft is a fixed term agreement, now if they have sent this letter because you have either defaulted or breached the agreement they are a bit stuffed. Firstly s76 should not be used if the creditor breaches the agreement for example not paying the OD back. Secondly s98 should not be used for default cases and also for any breach.

If you look up in NW T&C the £30 charge you have is clearly:

 

"A Default Notice Fee will be payable if we need to serve a default notice on you (for example, if you fail to repay your overdraft on demand or we wish to enforce any security we hold)".

 

 

I hope this helps

 

Pumpytums

[tedney]

Did they send a default notice under s76(1) and 98(1)?

 

 

 

Hello again pumpy, and thanks for that. Yes, they did send as you described. I will do as you suggest and research on the statute law etc. Thanks again.

t

 

I have a DN dated 17/12/2007, giving a "pay arrears by" date of 07/01/2008.

After checking on various threads, could someone just confirm if my calculations are correct please:

17/12/2007 was a Monday

18/12/2007 start counting day?

Plus two days for first class, so service would have been 21/12/2007 a friday (actual received date 20/12/2007) regret no envelopes kept then:sad:

Plus four days for second class, so service would have been 24/12/2007.

If first class, service was 21/12/2007 plus 14 days = 24/12, 27/12, 28/12, 31/12, 2/01, 3/01, 4/01 (friday), 7/01, 8/01, 9/01, 10/01, 11/01 (friday), 14/01, 15/01 = fourteenth day?

So by my reckoning this is a faulty DN by 7 days?

Am I correct?

[cerberusalert]

1st class dated 17th = you receive it 20th + 14 days to remedy = 3rd Jan

 

2nd class dated 17th = you receive it 24th (because of the weekend) + 14 days = 7th Jan

[tedney]

Thanks cerberusalert. So I was incorrect. As DN said "pay by 07/01/2008" if it was sent first class, the date was not out, but if it was sent second class, it was out be one day? Am I wrong in thinking that weekends and holidays do not count in the 14 days?

t

[cerberusalert]

Am I wrong in thinking that weekends and holidays do not count in the 14 days?

I'm afraid they don't.

but if it was sent second class, it was out be one day?

no they've allowed exactly 14 days if it had been posted 2nd class. They said pay by 7th, if they had said pay before it would have been one day short. Since it was sent 1st class it is well within time & even if you brought them to strict proof they would swear an affidavit & it would probably be accepted by the court.

 

Have you checked your credit file to ensure they didn't register the default before the remedy date? Or did they demand full payment or terminate the a/c before the remedy date? Also is the CCA in order?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Do the various public holidays make any difference?

[cerberusalert]

Do the various public holidays make any difference?

 

AFAIK only if they fall within the service of the DN as working days are used within the Act, but when it comes to the remedy period it only states 14 days.

[tedney]

Have you checked your credit file to ensure they didn't register the default before the remedy date? Or did they demand full payment or terminate the a/c before the remedy date? Also is the CCA in order?

 

Default registered after the remedy date, by around two months,

 

 

not asked for full payment until one month after remedy date.

 

 

Have not yet asked for CCA.

 

 

Claim has been issued for combined loan and overdraft, although not speciifed as such in the POC. I have defended with claim back charges and PPI. Claim is stayed at present.

Do you think relevant to request CCA even after claim brought. If so, do I asj OC or their solicitor?

Edited June 22, 2010 by tedney
typo and additions

[tedney]

If an OC combines an overdraft debt with a loan debt and issues a summons, will the total debt be covered by the CCA, and if so, which sections please?

[spamheed]

The overdraft carries certain exemptions under the CCA and a request would generally be satisfied by a letter detailing the terms and conditions of the overdraft facility

 

the loan (assuming it is under £25k) would be covered in its entirity under the CCA 1974 (all sections)

 

the combined balance would be covered by the CCA 1974 however it would need its own agreement signed by yourself and both of the original creditors

 

if a DCA combines two separate accounts, then they would need to provide a signed agreement for all three elements, each of the two original debts and a third for the combined amount.

 

obviously they will be unable to do so and as such the debt will be completely unenforceable.

[tedney]

they would need to provide a signed agreement for all three elements, each of the two original debts and a third for the combined amount.

Thanks for that spamheed, OC is a bank, who issued summons for both. I have not yet asked for copy letter or agreement for either account, and, as you say, they do not have agreement for both together, so does your comment still apply please? They have also asked for interest until judgement, is this correct?

Thanks again t

[harrassed senior]

Have they listed the 2 alleged debts seperately with their own account numbers on the one Summons or, is there just the total of the two claimed together not differentiating that there are 2 seperate accounts, or, are there 2 seperate Summons'?

[HP Mum]

You should check out my thread to see if the same situation applies to you...

I got a ccj on a lower amount than what I had thought the balance was. I am still trying to get to the bottom of what NW have been doing to my account, but it appears they might have split the amount I owe. A small amount on the ccj and a large amount gathering huge (unauthorised) interest on the rest -that I can only assume they will try and attack me with through the courts again unless I sort it out soon (as I am trying to now)

[tedney]

Have they listed the 2 alleged debts seperately with their own account numbers on the one Summons or, is there just the total of the two claimed together not differentiating that there are 2 seperate accounts, or, are there 2 seperate Summons'?

No account numbers provided, one summons with one amount (the two claimed together, no differentiating), I am "assuming" that the amount on the summons is for an overdraft and loan, as the sum roughly agrees with the balances I know of!

Thanks t

[harrassed senior]

Then definitely as SpamH says in post 2.

[tedney]

You should check out my thread to see if the same situation applies to you...

large amount gathering huge (unauthorised) interest

Hello HP, I will look at your thread. Interest being added for me too, but no statements being received, in contravention of CCA? When you say unauthorised, do you mean at a punitive rate? Are they charging interest according to account conditions?

t

 

Then definitely as SpamH says in post 2.

Thanks harrassed, I will ask the OC for copies of the three agreements then.

t

[HP Mum]

"unauthorised" refers to the account. If your current account was closed and a new one set up, NW should have got your authority for the new account.

How can a bank close a current account and transfer the balance into a new account of a different type, ie a loan account with different rates of interest, terms, etc without getting your approval in writing first ????

If you have had your current account o/d transferred into a new "loan" account and are subsequently being sent quarterly statements showing quarterly accruing interest, then this is unauthorised (illegal ??).

 

NW appears to have done this to a lot of people over the last 20 years. 9/10 people are ignorant about what NW have done. Probably cos they have many debt issues and they find it hard to face up to all the documentation that is sent to them; preferring to file rather than pore over the small print.

I knew something fishy had gone on with my current account, but I too just pushed it to one side to deal with later. With re-newed focus / determination on getting all my finances in order I recently tried to get to the bottom of it. Now I realise what NW did (are doing) I think it is important to make the public aware; to publicly (via legal means) get NW to explain their actions....

 

Does this relate to you ?

[zingy]

Thanks harrassed, I will ask the OC for copies of the three agreements then.

t

Is this HSBC by any chance?

[postggj]

or trident

[tedney]

No, neither, Natwest.