Higgzy vs Cap1 - Advice appreciated

[Higgzy]

Hows this look? Complex-credit-card-charges-calc draft.xls

[Old Cogger]

That is more like it, await for comments from others now, for more advice from their experiance and next move.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, Higgzy.

 

Sorry, I'm not too good with the Interest calculations.:-|

[Higgzy]

Me neither lol. So confusing. What about help with my next letter? I need something about going back further than 6yrs, if i remember from other threads it is s32 of the act there stating and i think the default should be removed as my limit was 200, at the time the default was served in July 07 the balance oweing was 703. It still is to date and has been since June 06. Therefore the 730 penatly charges have caused the default. if these charged didnt exsist, there would be no default. For me its not the money here that counts (although it would be nice if i can get more) its the default as i need a squeaking clean file for my local goverments shared ownership scheme. Ive been accepted for the scheme, just need a morgage in princaple. Just need the default gone and i can get one. Cheers, Nick.

[Old Cogger]

if the charges out way the debit and a default, action should be taken to have it removed, there must be a way, sure someone will advise the situ for you. The 8% would only cover the period you submit to court i.e. day of submission to hearing/dealt day. somebody will confirm no doubt.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Old Cogger

[Higgzy]

just found this, makes a bit more sense now

 

What is the contractual rate?

 

It is whatever rate your own bank has decided that they will charge you if you borrow their money

 

Authorised or unauthorised rate?

Either. Both are the contractual rate. Apply the lower one if you want to be charitable. Apply the higher one if you are looking for vigorous justice.

 

Which will the court order?

Who knows. Argue each one in the alternative. Once again, there is a fair bet that the bank will back down as they will not want to start revealing their charging regime. - But be aware of the risks. They may not do.

 

Should you claim contractual rate from the beginning?

Yes, you must do. It would not be at all proper to give prelims and LBAs for one amount and then to sue for a different amount. If you have already started, then bgin again.

 

The contractrual rate of interest has nothing to do with the interest they have already taken from you

The contractual rate is what you are charging your bank for having borrowed your money.

So if you have paid £100 in charges + £29 interest, the bank has effectively borrowed £129 from you.

You will then claim the return of your £129 plus, say, 16.5% (or whatever their interest rate is) on the whole sum that they have borrowed from you. Because their charges are unlawful, and you have not authorised their seizure of your money, you may be justified in charging interest at the unauthorised rate - say, 29%.

 

Can you claim the contractual rate plus s.69 interest?

No

 

Supposing that the court refuses the grant me the contractual rate of interest?

This is a possibility. Protect against it by claiming the s.69 rate in the alternative

 

 

Will claiming the contractual rate make the bank go into court?

Probably not - but it is your risk. You should be ready and willing to go to court from the moment you send your preliminary letter. otherwise, don't start the process

[letsdothis]

It's quite simple to work out compounded interest.

 

Use this;

 

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

1) Principal is charge eg 12.00

2) Rate of interest off statement (on my Cap One it showed 22%)

3) Number of rests - 12 compounded monthly

4) Start date - The date of the charge

5) End date - Today or whatever date you do the calculation

6) Tick the box for If you would like your calculation based on a 360 day year, please check this box

7) Press calculate

 

EG You have a charge of £12.00 from 25th March 2005 so do as above on the website linked, and you should get this figure. (provided of course you choose 26/08/10 and use the 22% I have added above)

 

Total amount due 39.80

Interest accrued 27.80

 

Therefore the figure you would put on your spreadsheet would be £27.80 and then let the spreadsheet add the 8% automatically.

 

People say not to add CI and Stat Interest, but on my Cap One that I sent a LBA I added both. They should settle somewhere in between hopefully.

[Higgzy]

thanks lets, ill have go now. where would i find the interest %. My stats say 2.20 monthly interest. my cca states 29.9%apr. Thanks

[silverfox1961]

As I've already mentioned, working out charges and interest are not my forte although the figures you put look ok to me.

 

In my opinion, the things that I would do are

 

Do the spreadsheet again but this time separate each overlimit and late payment fee into its own box

 

Remove the refunds already received. I found that really confusing.

 

The important thing to me is the interest rate. You are charging them 29.90% which was the last rate you were charged-correct? I think they would come back and say you weren't charged that interest rate in 2004. I would find out the different interest rates over the entire period, add them together then work out the average rate. For example

 

2004-21.5%

2005-22.9%

2006-25.9%

2007-29.9%

So 21.5+22.9+25.9+29.9=100.2 then divide them by 4 which= 25.05%

 

That is just a rough example and just my simple minded opinion.

 

I don't think you will have much luck with getting the default removed but you could try your idea that the overlimit and late payment charges put you into financial difficulties resulting in you falling into hardship resulting in the default. The problem I think will be that they didn't default you when you went onto the payment plan. They did so once you stopped paying the reduced payments

 

It is very rare for Cap1 to pay out before court papers are received which makes me think they are not offering you the full amount

 

Just one other thought came to me. Are any of the charges you are reclaiming levied after you stopped payments? You cannot claim back what you have not paid

[letsdothis]

I got mine off the screen print from Cap One that they sent in my SAR

 

Use the 29.9% mate, they won't pay up easily anyway. They will let you go to court first, so go with the highest you can find. Bear in mind that unless you are prepared to go to court, then there is no real point in fighting for the higher amount.

 

They will always offer you a stupid amount initially and try warning you off with BS about the £12 charges etc and then only offer you the difference of £12 and say the £20 they have charged. They like to play ping pong with you.

 

I managed to miss out that step because of the wording I used in my letter to them, and I actually got a decent offer initially, although it was only a quarter of what I had asked for, so I wrote back and politely told them to go forth and multiply, pay this amount or I will take it to court.

 

They have not responded so far, and so next Wednesday I will issue the claim.

[Higgzy]

As I've already mentioned, working out charges and interest are not my forte although the figures you put look ok to me.

 

In my opinion, the things that I would do are

 

Do the spreadsheet again but this time separate each overlimit and late payment fee into its own box

 

Remove the refunds already received. I found that really confusing.

 

The important thing to me is the interest rate. You are charging them 29.90% which was the last rate you were charged-correct? I think they would come back and say you weren't charged that interest rate in 2004. I would find out the different interest rates over the entire period, add them together then work out the average rate. For example

 

2004-21.5%

2005-22.9%

2006-25.9%

2007-29.9%

So 21.5+22.9+25.9+29.9=100.2 then divide them by 4 which= 25.05%

 

That is just a rough example and just my simple minded opinion.

 

I don't think you will have much luck with getting the default removed but you could try your idea that the overlimit and late payment charges put you into financial difficulties resulting in you falling into hardship resulting in the default. The problem I think will be that they didn't default you when you went onto the payment plan. They did so once you stopped paying the reduced payments

 

It is very rare for Cap1 to pay out before court papers are received which makes me think they are not offering you the full amount

 

Just one other thought came to me. Are any of the charges you are reclaiming levied after you stopped payments? You cannot claim back what you have not paid

 

Hi Fox, thanks for your advise. The offered me full amount on charges and all purchase interest for last 6yrs. I was asking for the few months prior to this and 8%stat interest. I will start a new speadsheet now using 29.9% as thats what the APR was on my terms and conditions i recieved from them last month. My last payment to them was may 2006. This is when the balance froze to what it is to date.

[letsdothis]

If they say the charges are over 6 years old, include this paragraph in your letter. As you are now going back with a higher amount I think you would need to start again as if this is a new claim.

 

I refer to default charges applied to my account amounting to £xxxx.xx, which I have requested you pay back. Some of these charges are over 6 years old, however s.32 Limitation Act 1980 allows me to reclaim these on the basis that I did not realise until recently, that the penalty charges levied against myself, were in fact unlawful.

[Higgzy]

so i ignore the total amount due (39.80) ?

[letsdothis]

If you are now claiming eg £3000 against £2000 you originally asked for because you are now claiming CI then I would start from the beginning again. You cannot ask for x amount and then claim y amount it wouldn't be seen as fair.

[letsdothis]

so i ignore the total amount due (39.80) ?

 

Doh!

 

Sorry just realised what you meant.

 

Total amount due 39.80

Interest accrued 27.80

 

On your spreadsheet you will already have the £12 on there. The amount for the CI is £27.80 and the amount with the £12 (already on your spreadsheet) is £39.80

[letsdothis]

eg

 

[Higgzy]

New speadsheet compound interest charges speadsheet.xls

 

Does this look correct?

Edited August 26, 2010 by Higgzy

[letsdothis]

I checked the first one, that looks pretty fine to me.

 

You cannot claim the purchase interest though.

 

There is a very good spreadsheet here that you can use, the same one as I did my example on before.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/Spreadsheets/England/Complex-bank-charges-calc.xls

[Higgzy]

removed the purchase interest. if goes to court when wil the 8% be awarded from? compound interest charges speadsheet.xls

[Higgzy]

do i just send my original letter again now with the extra paragraph about s32 6yr as if i haent wrote to them before. Or just be honest and say i checked my calcualtions and they were incorrect etc.

[letsdothis]

removed the purchase interest. if goes to court when wil the 8% be awarded from? compound interest charges speadsheet.xls

If you try the spreadsheet I linked to and then use the figures from yours and put them into the new spreadsheet like I have done on my image, it should show the 8% interest as well. Then put these figures into the initial request to cap one, that way they know what you are expecting from day 1 Edited August 26, 2010 by letsdothis

[letsdothis]

do i just send my original letter again now with the extra paragraph about s32 6yr as if i haent wrote to them before. Or just be honest and say i checked my calcualtions and they were incorrect etc.

 

I claimed for CI and Stat Interest as well as all charges in my first letter to them.

 

I added the paragraph to my LBA as they had clearly not included them in my initial offer that they gave.

 

What have they offered you, is it all charges within 6 years? If so write back and use that paragraph, they then know what you want, ie all of them.

 

If you first wrote to them asking for the charges back with stat interest but didn't mention the CI then I think you would be best starting over again or mentioning that you are entitled to CI as well. Maybe others could give you a helping hand. I have always added that on initially.

[Higgzy]

I claimed for CI and Stat Interest as well as all charges in my first letter to them.

 

I added the paragraph to my LBA as they had clearly not included them in my initial offer that they gave.

 

What have they offered you, is it all charges within 6 years? If so write back and use that paragraph, they then know what you want, ie all of them.

 

If you first wrote to them asking for the charges back with stat interest but didn't mention the CI then I think you would be best starting over again or mentioning that you are entitled to CI as well. Maybe others could give you a helping hand. I have always added that on initially.

 

Ok, thanks mate, u been a great help. theyve offered me charges at the 20quid and the full purchase interest in last 6yrs (760 in total), They havent offered the 8% i asked for. So now i'll hit em with compound. Give them one more opportunity to up the offer and if they dont file for the courts. I apprieciate u finding the link to the speadsheet but i added the 8% onto mine (too late to be pumping numbers in lol). My final version is here compound interest charges speadsheet final.xls . what do u think. If its correct with the 8% its loadsa money lol. cheers lets. If it wasnt for ppl like u on here. id have got nowhere with this claim.

[letsdothis]

I just checked the first one again using the spreadsheet that I would use, it comes to £199.25 against yours of £199.28 so I guess that is pretty spot on.

 

The biggest snag you are going to have mate, is the fact it is over £5k - You really need this in Small Claims court so you won't have to pay costs etc if you lose.

 

Mine came to 4.7k ish so I have room to play.

 

What you could do is;

 

1) Split your claim, so claim the ones before 6 years old and one for the last 6 years

2) Offer a Without Prejudice refund of say £5k or something

 

I would wait for some more advice on this, as that amount is huge.

[letsdothis]

Mind you I only claimed 22% as well.