Son Neglected In Hospital

[lady-in-red]

thanks nightowl, i can now see why people dont bother with action against them because you wont get anywhere, they are a law unto them selves a closed shop, i dont want anything from them at all just to know it wont happen to another family would be enough for me i know they did wrong they know they did wrong but the NHS have not got a soul, and i think thats why many people wont help them in their challenge to keep the NHS no one seems to care now, id hate to see it go especially for people who really cant afford private health care i have paid in the past and would again but many havent got that sort of money and its those i feel very sorry for, the country is in a mess, im just angry now with the litigatiopn team tell my solicitor to wrap it up and close it, just to save their faces, but id like to thank you night owl with all the help and advice you have given me on here, i know with out your expertise i wouldnt have understood as much as i do now and i thankyou for that, ill always be very grateful to you , i wish you well nightowl and hope and pray you wont be one of those poor staff to lose their job its the men at the tops wages that need to go they do nothing for their wages and most of those chief executives are only Accountants what do they know about looking after people or needs people like you nightowl should be at the top the people who keep our NHS running and do all the dirty work but never complain because you enjoy doing it its your job thankyou so very much hunxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi glitterlady,

 

I'm sorry I haven't been on the forum much recently, but I've just read the last few posts. I'm sorry if I'm missing something. Did the notes turn up? Obviously they won't have sent the only copy to you.

 

Obviously they want to wrap it up, but there are people who are beating them every day. If your lawyer hasn't got the solution, get another one who is stronger. Your son's case is tragic and obviously someone is responsible. You just have to keep on until they agree to make a reasonable settlement for what your son has gone through.

 

DD

[lady-in-red]

hi good to see you again desperate danielle, yes we got the doctors notes at last, and i was shocked to read them, i can now see what they did wrong, it was in the CDU ward clinicla descisions ward where they left him for 4 days while his lungs got into a bd way they asked ITU 4 times to move my son to ITU buut they all ignored this and he did have swineflu and they didnt treat him for this and thats why his lungs failed, by the time they did get him to ITU he was dieing, so ITU put him in prone for 17 hours, to ease his lungs which i know they can do, but after 17 hours laying on his face they turned him on his back and saw this huge heamatoma over his left eye and cut lips from the vent tape, it was all to late for my son, they neglected him, they also put a DNAR on him with out our knowledge and in the notes this doctor also said he was going to take his care down, but the other doctor disagreed with this thank goodness he did, its all written in his notes but who will listen? NO ONE, the chief executive believes hes answered all my questions but he hasnt how could he know anything when hes just a damn accountant how could he even understand what happened to a patient in his hospital i mean and accountant that was his job before coming chief exec of the trust, and there is no higher than him even my MP is having trouble getting answers from him, there is no help pals do nothing litigation are with the trust they all colaborate together i have emailed every one to do with hospitals trusts and not one will help none will go against the NHS it was the biggest mistake to let them become trusts because they are the top dogs and you cannot get past them

[Desperate Daniella]

What happened to your son is so clearly gross negligence. Are you okay with the lawyer, or do you want to speak to the guy I mentioned last year?

[zippygbr]

there is no requirement or obligation to consult the family on DNAR, it is just deemed appropriate to consider consultation and if it;s not futility as the reason for DNAR i suspect it would be looked upon very poorly , Iif the reasons for the DNAR is clinical futility this is more about documenting the fact that resuscitation and in particular CPR / defibrilation / applying the ALS protocol will not be effective and just cause further damage.

 

"6.2 Requests for CPR in situations where it will not be successful

Neither patients, nor those close to them, can demand treatment that is clinically inappropriate. If the

healthcare team believes that CPR will not re-start the heart and breathing, this should be explained

to the patient in a sensitive way. These discussions informing the patient of the healthcare team’s

decision may be difficult and where possible should be carried out by experienced senior clinicians.

If the patient does not accept the decision and requests a second opinion, this should be arranged

whenever possible. Similarly, if those close to the patient do not accept a DNAR decision in these

circumstances, despite careful explanation for its basis, a second opinion should be offered."

http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/dnar.pdf

 

other material from the resuscitation council website

 

http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/dnar.pdf - this document is a joint publication between the Resuscitation Council, the RCN and the BMA

 

http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/dnar.htm

 

http://www.resus.org.uk/pages/dnarrstd.htm

[lady-in-red]

Thank you both for your reply's, i have spoken to so many people in the trusts and not one will do anything about it its hopeless, there is no protection for patients anymore i have found that out and its wrong, so the trusts can do what they like cover up all their mess ups and no one does nothing, and im not the only one who is having problems with trusts, the DNAR was put on my son at 8 am that day we were told at midday so we were never consulted about this, but who cares? no one listens to the families anymore we don't count, my son didn't know this was going on he was heavily sedated paralised by drugs and ventilated, he knew nothing,, its only now we have got his notes back that we can see it all, their failure to move him to ITU when they were asked 5 times to move him to be ventilated they didn't, do it, he also had swineflu which they don't swab for so that's why his lungs were failing, and the day the dnar was put on him all staff stayed away from him even when the machines were all bleeping they didn't even come and tweak them they were told basically let him die, but he didnt he was stronger than they realised he shocked them all, if they new he was dieing is this what they do to people who are dieing just leave them, what about the pain he was having, they shouldnt play god to people, he wasnt treated for swineflu either, and we were never gowned either so we must have passed this on to others in the hospital, and we visited the childrens ward as well because my sick grandaughter was in the same hospital at that time , im not giving up im letting them know im still here, untill they tell me the truth i will keep this going, solicitors dont want to know either unless its a massive claim its just about money to solicitors not what trusts do to people no one is interested what goes on in the trusts anymore they control it all its a closed shop so be careful if you have to go in hospital and take notes of every thing they do to you because you never know.

[Nystagmite]

I think it's disgusting that your opinion wasn't sought on the DNAR. OK, you may not be medically trained; but you should have a say in what happens to your son. What they did ("all staff stayed away from him even when the machines were all bleeping they didn't even come and tweak them they were told basically let him die") was basically neglect him. Even if he was so ill that he would die, they should at least check what the bleeping was about.

[lady-in-red]

Thank you nystagmite thats exactly what we think should have happened not left him to die, they never tweeked his machines and yet his nurse that day just stayed by her white board ignoring the beeps, my daughter has a very disabled little girl and spend many weeks in hospital with her so she understand all the machines shes very medically minded as she has to do TPN and IV for her little girl, and she was shocked that they stayed away and just left us, is this what happens when a relative is dieing do they actaully stay away and leave them to die surely they help our loved ones till the end not ignore them im disgusted by it, thank you again

[duckwaddler]

Welcome to CAG duckwaddler. Maybe it would be better to start your own thread where peeps can answer this for you. Im very sorry to hear that you have cause for a solicitor for a neglect case and yes the solicitors will take it very seriously. I will look out for your new thread when your up and running x

 

 

 

 

Thankyou for your advise nightowl but my mother sadly didnt make it, so ive decided to leave matters.

[Night Owl]

So sorry for your sad loss duckwaddler x

[natalie]

Its a court case where you the prosecuter are trying to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they the defendant are guilty in front of a judge bias toward the medical profession.

 

Negligence is a civil case, it has to be proven on a balance of probabilities not beyond reasonable doubt.

[natalie]

Lady in red, what has your solicitor said about the hospital's response?

[beachbird]

i have been on other forums about the NHS and it seems its very hard to take it to court, in some cases its years, but worth the wait if you know someone who has been neglected in a hospital,

[duckwaddler]

So sorry for your sad loss duckwaddler x

 

Thankyou Night Owl. I never realised just how much neglect was happening till I experienced it myself and started to search around.

[beachbird]

. A criminal case must be proved 'beyond reasonable doubt.' A civil case only has to be proved on the 'balance of ... civil trial decided that on the 'balance of probabilities' he had. ... as the state has no interest in overseeing 'civil' wrongs. ...

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi lady in red,

 

Have not had internet access for several days. Tried to pm you but not allowed to, so can you pm me?

 

DD

[frankieg]

.

A criminal case must be

proved

'

beyond reasonable doubt

.' A

civil case

only

has to be proved

on the '

balance of

...

civil trial decided that on the '

balance of probabilities

' he had.

...

as the state

has no

interest

in overseeing 'civil' wrongs.

...

 

Yes Beach bird you may be right but in reality it doesn't work like that-as people who try to prove clinical negligence find out. The only thing that counts is 'cause and effect' . In other words what effect did the cause have on the persons life. So the delay in dads operation - the cause- led to a need for a second operation after which he died from bronco-pneumonia-the effect . My problem is proving, even if dad had received immediate surgery . he wouldn't have needed that second operation that ultimately killed him. Oh my solicitor can bring on experts to say if the first operation had been done immediately he probably wouldn't have needed the second, but the hospitals can bring other experts to say he probably would have needed the second. If you browse other postings on this forum you will see stories where its obvious negligence occurred but the families involved have been fighting for years to prove it. And actually the state is involved in these civil suits-the state pays all the hospitals legal bills! . And if by the rare chance the hospital is found negligent the state pays any damages awarded.

 

 

[beachbird]

Hi Frankieg, how far have you got with your hospital? your story sounds awful, and im so sad you lost your father, dont give in keep fighting, keep believing in yourself:-)

[frankieg]

A couple of new developments!!. I was finally sent a copy of the hospitals 'complaints file'( everyone should ask for that as it makes interesting reading, it seems from internal e mails the hospital was certain the ombudsman was going to investigate them over what happened to my dad) But if you do ask for it be careful because even PALs don't know what a complaints file is and will try to send you a copy of the chart. After reading it i spoke to the hospital legal department and raised merry hell over why the same lies are being repeated and sent out in march 2011-like the hospital said there was a meeting arranged in January 2010 and i refused to go! But I went to this meeting, Ive proof i went, and i 've repeatedly told them i did-but they didn't changed it and so its still going around . And the legal department says that all along I've had the right to have my side of things and , if i dispute something was said or done as charted , added to dads chart and I could have dispute what was in the letters sent to me and that would have been placed in this file. She was extremely surprised when i said i had asked for this many times since September 2009 and the CEO has repeatably refused!!. So now i have to go through the 100+ pages complaints file and back through dads chart and submit whats wrong about the information held and the legal department will have it added to both his chart and complaints file .also this week the ombudsman's recontacted me and is going to review whether their decision to investigate was not valid.

[duckwaddler]

A couple of new developments!!. I was finally sent a copy of the hospitals 'complaints file'( everyone should ask for that as it makes interesting reading, it seems from internal e mails the hospital was certain the ombudsman was going to investigate them over what happened to my dad) But if you do ask for it be careful because even PALs don't know what a complaints file is and will try to send you a copy of the chart. After reading it i spoke to the hospital legal department and raised merry hell over why the same lies are being repeated and sent out in march 2011-like the hospital said there was a meeting arranged in January 2010 and i refused to go! But I went to this meeting, Ive proof i went, and i 've repeatedly told them i did-but they didn't changed it and so its still going around . And the legal department says that all along I've had the right to have my side of things and , if i dispute something was said or done as charted , added to dads chart and I could have dispute what was in the letters sent to me and that would have been placed in this file. She was extremely surprised when i said i had asked for this many times since September 2009 and the CEO has repeatably refused!!. So now i have to go through the 100+ pages complaints file and back through dads chart and submit whats wrong about the information held and the legal department will have it added to both his chart and complaints file .also this week the ombudsman's recontacted me and is going to review whether their decision to investigate was not valid.

 

Wishing you the very best of luck FrankieG! It sounds as if you have an extremely long haul ahead of you!

[beachbird]

hi frankieg ive been reading your posts on here, it seems you have had a very hard time with your hospital, i hope you get the answers you deserve,

[stephie2]

Have you tried the PALS team within the NHS?

[beachbird]

the pals team are supposed to be for the patients but they arnt, they are with the hospital all the way frankieg will tell you all about PALS

[duckwaddler]

When my Mum was in hospital, I found PALS 'nice', but not much use. Although I've not taken further steps for obvious reasons.

[frankieg]

As beachbird says i have a big problem with PALS- they seem very concerned with offering the hospital the assistance instead of me! . i contacted them about all the inaccurate information in my fathers chart, and asked how could have it amended. I specifically told them that was all i needed but , instead of just giving me the requested advice ,PALs went to the complaints department who wrote a reply which basically said that it couldn't be done. Complaints told PALs to forward it to me as their(PALs) response which they did. I found out months later i have always had the right to have 'my side' of events placed on my fathers chart. A letter i sent after this to my MP about these inaccuracies was forward to the hospital CEO for clarification. That was sent to PALS legal department who 'looked into it' They were the ones that wrote the reply that the CEO sent to the MP as his , which stated the case had been addressed and he wasn't going to discuss the points raised in my letter with the MP. I always thought that PALs was to help and advise me, but from my experiences they are just another layer of 'protection' for a hospital.