Son Neglected In Hospital

[Sali]

Night Owl, I think the OP is suggesting that all the notes have been 'lost.'

 

Forgive Allwood. Many people who come to this forum have had horrible experiences with the NHS. Our opinions are formed by our life experiences and yes, maybe, at times they cloud our judgement. Ultimately, we know that most nurses are caring and hardworking.

 

However, I too, have seen the dark side of the NHS. I'm sorry to say I have seen nurses who have seemed uncaring to the point of callousness. There may be many reasons why - understaffing, low morale - but when your loved one seems to be suffering needlessly, there can be no excuses.

 

I think the bitterness becomes ingrained because complainants are often stonewalled by the management. It is torturous. I would estimate that 80% of people give up to save their mental health. There also appears to be no accountability when failures have been identified - usually at the litigation stage years later. We need an independent complaints process.

[Night Owl]

This is Glitterladys thread about her sick son. I don't know how old her son is and can only offer advice as Glitterlady gives us the information.

 

I feel desperately sad that patients don't receive good, effective nursing care and I will for one make sure it never happens where I work.

 

Sali, I agree that everyone has good and bad experiences of the NHS because of the very animal it is. It is a service that puts us as patients or carers in a very vulnerable position which adds to the stressful experience of being sick.

 

As nurses we are accountable for our actions and in my area of work we take that very seriously. We make sure the partnership between the patient, carer and multidisciplnary team works to the patients advantage.

 

Errors, however serious, are delt with with care and compassion for those involved and the correct paperwork and managment involvement is taken seriously.

 

I do object to us all being tarred with the same evil brush. I am passionate about my job but do understand that there are some less so and that makes me sad.

[Allwood]

no doctor did nothing for us we decided to get a solicitor involved because the hospital admitted neglect then took the document out about where he admitted it was neglect, this is all neglect and hospitals cannot get away with it, we were taken into a room and spoken to be the top ITU doctor where he said how sorry he was that things were not done for my son and the hospital had let him down then he says he never said it

 

 

It is not the patients that are evil.... it is 'some' of the hospital staff. I do not mean you Night Owl as you come across as a caring person. It is sad that there are professionals in hospitals that are only there for the salary at the end of the month.

 

Hi my son was in our local hospital, they didnt give him antibiotics for 5 days for a chest infection after aspirating twice, this turned to pneumonia, he was then moved to ITU, where he was dieing, we were then taken into a room with his nurse and the head of ITU he told us that my son was neglected and more should have been done for him he said how sorry he was about this and that he may lose his job because of what he has told us, he then said he wanted to air lift my son (something that was never done from this hospital), to a london specialist hospital as my sons lungs had failed his kidneys had failed and his liver WAS failing, he was flown to london where he remained in ITU for 7 weeks fighting for his life, when he was well enough he was transfered back to our local hospital where again we were taken in the same room with the same doctor he told us the conversation we had with him admitting the neglect had gone missing, we asked how my sons head had got like it did he said something went seriously wrong but went on to something else and we still cant find out what went wrong even today, we took this up with a very good solicitor and she got a report back which said " they had lost his notes from ITU, so what do we do now as the solicitor said there is no case with out NOTES

 

You say that errors however serious are dealt with care and compassion but the OP post said that the doctor that spoke to them denied that he said he said how sorry he was that things were not done for my son and the hospital had let him down then he says he never said it, this is not a very caring attitude. Also, how can notes get lost in a hospital in this day and age?

Edited July 6, 2010 by Allwood

[Night Owl]

It is not the patients that are evil.... it is 'some' of the hospital staff. I do not mean you Night Owl as you come across as a caring person. It is sad that there are professionals in hospitals that are only there for the salary at the end of the month. That will be the pen pushing managers.

The public are not aware that the nurses pay rise is always split into 2! We get the first part of our rise in April and the second half in August so that they can save money! What other profession would accept that?

 

 

 

You say that errors however serious are dealt with care and compassion but the OP post said that the doctor that spoke to them did not say sorry for what had happen in the hospital that her son was in. I can only comment on the area I work in to give a balanced view otherwise it is a top heavy sweeping statement. Also how can notes be lost in a hospital in this day and age? Sadly notes go missing all the time. When a patient is in hospital the notes are seen by lots of people involved in their care. They are then sent to the consultants secretary on the patients discharge or death for follow up letters to be written or clinic appointments to be made. ITU (Intensive Care Unit) do keep their own nursing observation charts, in our hospital, which are huge sheets of paper. A discharge summery is written by the ITU consultant on the patients discharge or death and is filled in their medical notes.

 

I hope this clarifies a few points raised.

[lady-in-red]

so why are they deny they told us this was neglect and by the director of ITU himself, and a nurse, they put my son in prone position for 20 hours there was not enough staff to turn him and when they did they said it went seriously wrong he has a massive scar on his head we dont know how he got this, his mouth was cut open he had a big black hair stuck to his lip, he wasnt on the right mattress and had a towel rolled up under his forhead for 20 hours, do you think this is right? also a nurse shouted at him after he woke for short time she shouted at a very sick patient and yes i have complained about her but you can guarantee they wont do anything to her she was rude to us and very nasty to other visitors in ITU , i have pics of my sons face all bashed and swollen he never had this when he went in and being in pron position he was heavly sedated and had a paralsis drug so he could even move so how did he hurt hiself, we believe they dropped him but there is NO nursing notes no chat about the neglect its all be taken out this is disgusting

[lady-in-red]

when he was transfered to the lung hospital they asked us did the local take a swab i said i have no idea, so they did one it came back my son had SWINEFLU but the local said they dont swab for swineflu yet he had lung failure kidney failure and his liver was failing, he had swineflu yet they didnt treat him till it was to late by then he was dieing

[Desperate Daniella]

glitterlady,

 

Still waiting on the info. Will chase tomorrow.

 

DD

[lady-in-red]

nightowl im sorry that you have been dragged into this being a nurse, but your right not all nurses are like that, you sound a lovely person and work very hard at your job and i can now see what is happening in the NHS BUT my son has lung failure hes on oxygen and was in a wheelchair and all because of neglect at my hospital, the lies they have told, and to admit neglect to us then retract it is disgusting, but with out his notes i will have trouble in proving this but i have pics of him in ITU i also did a journal everyday so its all written down daily, thats my proof, i wont ever trust a hospital doctor again after this, if they can lie like they have done, but i wont give up till i make them admit what they did, my sons lungs are damaged badly hes 34 years old,

[lady-in-red]

ok thankyou daniella xx

[Night Owl]

so why are they deny they told us this was neglect and by the director of ITU himself, and a nurse, they put my son in prone position for 20 hours there was not enough staff to turn him and when they did they said it went seriously wrong What do they mean by "seriously wrong"? if an incident happen did they complete an incident form and report it? You should have been informed of the details of an incident happening, an apology and a treatment plan if required. he has a massive scar on his head we dont know how he got this, his mouth was cut open he had a big black hair stuck to his lip, he wasnt on the right mattress and had a towel rolled up under his forhead for 20 hours, do you think this is right? No, I think this sounds like incorrect positioning, and should not be used for a prolonged time. also a nurse shouted at him after he woke for short time she shouted at a very sick patient and yes i have complained about her but you can guarantee they wont do anything to her she was rude to us and very nasty to other visitors in ITU , i have pics of my sons face all bashed and swollen Have you shown these photos to the consultant caring for your son in ITU for answers? Have you shown PALS? he never had this when he went in and being in pron position he was heavly sedated and had a paralsis drug so he could even move so how did he hurt hiself, we believe they dropped him but there is NO nursing notes no chat about the neglect its all be taken out this is disgusting

 

A ventilated and paralysed patient should have a pressure area assessment done on admission. They should be put on the correct mattress/air bed on the results of this assessment. Your son would have been considered, in my opinion, as high risk of developing pressure areas because of his imobility. His position should have been changed on a regular basis every 2 hours, this is basic nursing care.

 

when he was transfered to the lung hospital they asked us did the local take a swab i said i have no idea, so they did one it came back my son had SWINEFLU but the local said they dont swab for swineflu yet he had lung failure kidney failure and his liver was failing, he had swineflu yet they didnt treat him till it was to late by then he was dieing

 

At the height of the Swine Flu outbreak our Hospital swabbed every patient with a respiratory history and isolated them until proven as Swine Flu or not. I work in Paediatrics and we were very, very busy. We have now stopped doing that screening.

 

nightowl im sorry that you have been dragged into this being a nurse, Glitterlady, I haven't been dragged into anything. I joined CAG for help and advice, and the community here has helped me enormously. I lurk on the NHS threads because I believe I can offer help and advice to others in return. but your right not all nurses are like that, you sound a lovely person and work very hard at your job and i can now see what is happening in the NHS BUT my son has lung failure hes on oxygen and was in a wheelchair and all because of neglect at my hospital, the lies they have told, and to admit neglect to us then retract it is disgusting, but with out his notes i will have trouble in proving this but i have pics of him in ITU i also did a journal everyday so its all written down daily, thats my proof, i wont ever trust a hospital doctor again after this, if they can lie like they have done, but i wont give up till i make them admit what they did, my sons lungs are damaged badly hes 34 years old,

 

Whilst you and your son were on ITU did the doctors and nurses explain everything they were doing, changes in treatment, medication etc...

Do you remember him being on a special mattress?

 

I feel desperatly sad for you and your son for the obvious bad care he received when he should have received good, effective care.

 

I wish you the best of luck in tracking down the answers.

 

Night Owl

[Allwood]

'Sadly notes go missing all the time. When a patient is in hospital the notes are seen by lots of people involved in their care. They are then sent to the consultants secretary on the patients discharge or death for follow up letters to be written or clinic appointments to be made. ITU (Intensive Care Unit) do keep their own nursing observation charts, in our hospital, which are huge sheets of paper. A discharge summery is written by the ITU consultant on the patients discharge or death and is filled in their medical notes'.

 

Night Owl... are the notes that go missing ever found or do they stay missing and never retuned to the correct patients records.

[Night Owl]

Medical records, known as the patients "Notes", move around the hospital from wards to clinics to consultants secretaries and to the consultants themselves all the time. When the patient is no longer being treated the "Notes" are returned to the Medical records secretary for filling on the shelves of medical records where they stay.

 

Whilst the patient is on the wards as an inpatient, the notes should remain on the ward they are on. If they move to ITU within that hospital then the notes go with them to that unit.

 

The medical staff, and multidisciplinary team (physios, dietitians, etc...) will write in these notes of tests done and changes to treatment.

 

There are, and always will, be delays in finding notes when the patient is discharged because of the system of returning them to medical records.

 

Nursing notes, such as care plans, evaluations of care, observation charts, and prescription charts are updated by the nurses and are available for the medical staff and patients to view. On discharge these nursing notes are filled with the medical notes by the ward secretaries.

 

If a patient is transfered to another hospital, copies are made of the relevant information for the receiving hospital and the original notes stay behind. Each hospital will have their own set of notes, and registration ID number, per patient and they will not leave that hospital.

 

I have seen patients notes go "missing" but always seem to be found on somebodies desk. I have never known of notes go missing permanently.

[lady-in-red]

thankyou nightowl you have just told me what i needed to know, when my son was transfered to the london hospital we thought his notes went with him we didnt realise they didnt go till you told me on his return to the local hospital thats when they took us in the same room to tell us that when my son returned to the local hospital the 2 conversations were missing when his notes came back with him but you said they dont leave the hospital, also he was on grey mattress untill 2 days before his transfer when it all kicked off in his ward and they knew they had done something wrong to him, also the solicitor dealing with this has said that a nursing person that has looked at my sons notes has said the waterlow was not implememnted for my son so no one watched his pressure sores, the solicitor has said that there is nursing notes for my son, , now today he has phoned to have his usual CT scan before he see his lung doctor but when he phoned today the hospital have said they cant find him on their system what the hell are they playing at they are trying to make out he was never there this is rediculous any help would be very much appreciated night owl and i wont say where i got the imfo from either thankyou

[lady-in-red]

i meant NO NURSING NOTES

[lady-in-red]

how can they have NO nursing notes he was in ITU from 17th october till the 28th october 2009, where are they?

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

I'm glad I have been able to help.

The Waterlow score is a tick box chart which assesses the patients risk of developing a pressure sore.

Judy Waterlow, Waterlow Score, Pressure Ulcer Care and Pressure Ulcer Risk Assessment, Waterlow Scale, Pressure Ulcer Prevention

 

From ours it covers

1. Build - underweight

normal

overweight

2. Respiratory - self ventilating

ventilated

3. Continence - continent

incontinent

catheterized

and the list goes on.

Each tick gives a different score and they add up to a number that will give you a pressure risk score which will alert nursing staff if the patient is,

No risk, at risk, or high risk of developing a pressure sore.

This result enables the nursing staff to provide the patient with the correct mattress and support to prevent a pressure sore developing.

 

This should be part of the Hospital Policy for Pressure Sore Prevention and should be completed for each patient whether they are mobile or not.

Each Hospital should undertake an Audit of these results on a regular basis.

THIS IS BASIC NURSING CARE!!!!

Edited July 7, 2010 by Night Owl

[Night Owl]

Glitterlady,

as I said before, ITU use their own nursing paperwork because their charts for recording information are so big. There should be a doctors transfer/discharge summary and a brief nursing letter transfering your son to your local hospital.

If your son was on an ITU of a London Hospital the nursing notes should make their way back to the medical notes OF THAT hospital only.

[lady-in-red]

hi thanks for the info, the london hospital did everything brilliantly i couldnt fault them he owes his life to the team, and the nurses were brilliant always spoke to us and told us how he was doing everyday, the doctors never gave up on him and said he was the sickest man in the hospital and they would just keep pushing and hoping he would pull through, without their support i dont know how we would have coped, the doctors used stand and watch him for ages, trying to think what they could do to make him better, and the nurses were so caring to the patients and worked hard every day looking after them in ITU, when he was transfered back to local hospital there wasnt that care anymore even though he was in ITU it was very noticable, today we have asked for his notes from the london hospital because i saw photos of my sons face, why would they have taken photos of him we think it was a safe guard for the london hospital incase the finger was pointed at them, i just hope when his notes come from the london hospital it will have those pics of his face in the notes and give us more info, why did the local hospital not swab him for swineflu yet the london one did straightaway, this is neglect, they neglected him from day one when a patient aspirates you dont give them ice cream and paracetamol tabs do you he was chocking and vomiting, had a massive high temp so hot to touch, and yet they did nothing till i yelled at them to get a doctor to him its digusting the way they work, but not all nurses are like those at our local ive seen dedicated nurses and im glad i did, just have to prove all this and i will

[Night Owl]

Hi Glitterlady,

 

unexplained injuries would be photographed as evidence, in my opinion, especially if the patient has been transfered from another hospital.

The injuries should have been explained on transfer or the accepting consultant should have sought that information from the local hospital.

 

Are you aware of an incident report being completed for the injuries?

How have they explained these injuries to you?

 

The Swine Flu swab would be down to each Hospital Policy at the time of your sons admission. Each Hospital will have this policy IN PRINT.

 

If you son had problems swallowing and was choking, a SALT (Speech And Language Therapy) assessment should have been made to assess his safety with food and drink.

 

Paracetamol can be given in other ways to reduce a temperature.

Oral, as tablets or dispersable.

Rectal, as a suppository.

Intravenous, through a drip into a cannula in a hand.

[lady-in-red]

at the local hospital no photographs were taken by staff but we did and have them now, it was when he was transfered the london hospital took pics of his face and asked us how he got the head injury we told them we didnt know because no one would tell us even though we asked is all they said was that he was put in prone and when they turned him it went seriously wrong but wouldnt say how serious they just wouldnt answer us,i remember a nurse filling out a form cos she said to another nurse that we were undtaffed and couldnt move him(my son) but the london hospital had no idea what happened to him and was constantly asking us maybe that why they took photos of his face because it wasnt them who did it, they have never explained his injuries to us each time we asked they would say we are getting to that but firstly lets discus this or that never what happened my son was bringing up green phlem, they saw this but still gave him icecream he was sick as soon as they gave it to him and he aspirated

[lady-in-red]

will the london hospital send those photographes they took of my sons face when his notes come to us as we have asked for them will they send them or do they have to keep them

[Night Owl]

at the local hospital no photographs were taken by staff but we did and have them now, it was when he was transfered the london hospital took pics of his face and asked us how he got the head injury we told them we didnt know because no one would tell us even though we asked is all they said was that he was put in prone and when they turned him it went seriously wrong but wouldnt say how serious they just wouldnt answer us,i remember a nurse filling out a form cos she said to another nurse that we were undtaffed and couldnt move him(my son)

This is serious. If an incident involving a patient happens an incident form should be completed and it should be recorded in the nursing notes and medical notes. A doctor should have examined the patient whether there was an injury or not. The Clinical Site Team should have been informed and also signed the form with the person completing it and any witness's. If they were short staffed then the patient should not have been moved until the correct amount of staff were made available to carry out the simple procedure safely for the patient and the staff. Extra staff should have been found as turning a patient who is unable to alone is priority. The patient is at high risk of developing a pressure sore if not moved.

 

but the london hospital had no idea what happened to him and was constantly asking us maybe that why they took photos of his face because it wasnt them who did it, they have never explained his injuries

This is really serious that they cannot account and explain your sons "injuries" to you. It was the local hospital that had the duty of care to your son at that time and they are the ones that must explain this, not the London Hospital.

 

to us each time we asked they would say we are getting to that but firstly lets discus this or that never what happened my son was bringing up green phlem, they saw this but still gave him icecream he was sick as soon as they gave it to him and he aspirated

 

Was your son able to cough and swallow with all the phlegm or did he need suction?

[Night Owl]

will the london hospital send those photographes they took of my sons face when his notes come to us as we have asked for them will they send them or do they have to keep them

 

If your Solicitor has asked for them then yes they should send copies of the photographs.

[lady-in-red]

no my solicitor hasnt ask we have he signed for his notes yesterday but will they send the pics with them or a copy of the pics, we know what they did to him im not giving up i know it will be hard to prove but surely if they have no nursing notes thats neglect and shows they are hiding something, it all needs to be looked at thankyou nightowl for all your helpxx

[lady-in-red]

no my solicitor hasnt ask we have he signed for his notes yesterday but will they send the pics with them or a copy of the pics, we know what they did to him im not giving up i know it will be hard to prove but surely if they have no nursing notes thats neglect and shows they are hiding something, it all needs to be looked at thankyou nightowl for all your helpxx