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    • Thanks for the welcome Andyorch   dx100uk - I have had 2 previous addresses since coming back to the UK.   Does this mean I should not ignore?   
    • I would be inclined to rip their WS apart. That way, I doubt that VCS would wish to proceed to Court.  In paragraph 5 VCS claim they have full compliance with their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement and Private Land. Really? Can this be the same VCS that was issuing PCNs between 2013 and 2017 knowing that the signage there had not been agreed by Liverpool council and therefore the signage was illegal. Here is an open letter from the Parking Prank   Tuesday, 19 November 2013 An open letter to Simon Renshaw Smith of VCS parking regarding Liverpool John Lennon Airport   19/11/2013 Dear Mr Renshaw Smith,   I wish to draw your attention to the procedural impropriety in your operational activities on the approach roads within Liverpool John Lennon Airport.   You are actively operating under contract to issue civil penalty tickets (PCN’s) for traffic offences on the roads such as stopping at the roadside, whether for seconds, minutes or even longer, or for parking on the roadside verges.   You are doing so based on an allegation of contractual agreement for a breach of parking conditions and are actively sending out a notice to keeper in each case where you ask for the name and address of the driver. You are doing this under the provisions of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.   As you are no doubt aware, due to your many years of experience in emptying people’s wallets, where land is governed by byelaws the remedy for any breach of conditions of those byelaws is through the criminal courts, such as a magistrates.   Not only that, since the byelaws set an amount of penalty for failure to comply with them; a further amount based on your own assessment is unlawful at best and perhaps even fraudulent.   A set of the byelaws for the Liverpool Airport have now been obtained from a reliable source, Liverpool City Council,  which sets out the airport’s stance on roadway use, or misuse. It also lays down a penalty upon summary conviction for a breach of the byelaws of £5 for the 1st offence and a further amount of 40 shillings for a continued daily breach.   I put it to you that these byelaws govern the airport’s penalty regime for the alleged contraventions you are enforcing. In fact there is no penalty for stopping at the roadside. There is no offence committed so there can be no penalty unless it can be proven in a magistrate’s court that this action amounted to a failure under para 14: “Driving or placing a vehicle carelessly or dangerously or without due consideration for persons using the airport”   Para 18 gives notice that a “failure by the driver of a vehicle to comply with any direction for the regulation of traffic given by a constable or any person acting on behalf of the council or a traffic sign” will be subject to the penalty regime of the aforementioned £5 plus 40 shillings per day afterwards.   The mention of the traffic signs and the council's part in the overall monitoring means that the signs must be compliant to the TSRGD which are those shown for the public highways; not the ones arbitrarily stuck at the roadside by yourself which are meaningless in the context of the legal status of the byelaws.   Furthermore, POFA 2012 3(1)(c) states that Schedule 4 only applies on land on which the parking of a vehicle is not subject to a statutory control. It further states (3)For the purposes of sub-paragraph (1)(c) the parking of a vehicle on land is “subject to statutory control” if any statutory provision imposes a liability (whether criminal or civil, and whether in the form of a fee or charge or a penalty of any kind) in respect of the parking on that land of vehicles generally or of vehicles of a description that includes the vehicle in question.   The byelaws state at para 2.19 that the following act is prohibited. The penalty for this is a fine not exceeding five pounds.   POFA 2012 therefore does not apply, and you may therefore only pursue the driver and not the registered keeper. Moreover, you may only pursue them for the sum of five pounds.   Knowingly pursuing the registered keeper when POFA 2012 is an offence which the DVLA take extremely seriously and may ban you from access. The BPA wrote to you in their electronic newsletter this month reiterating this.   I put it to you, Mr Renshaw Smith, that your company is operating unlawfully at the Liverpool Airport site and ask what you intend to do since this has now been brought to your notice.   May I remind you that since this is an unlawful operation, you may well be required at some later time to recompense the amounts of the PCN’s already paid by drivers, and perhaps face tough questions in a court of law, not just a civil court.           Happy Stopping Briefly At the Roadside   The Parking Prankster   The Prankster would like to thank his source for the above   I am sure that you will find other examples of VCS not complying with Code of Conduct or the Law.   And of course VCS do not have the ability to take you to Court because you were a trespasser and only the land owner can take a trespasser to Court.          
    • Yes ...you have it confirmed by the court above that they requested a copy of the Order/Consent on the 2/08/2019....and then requested judgment on 21/08/2019 .
    • blimey J&P   I wonder how many more solicitor firms UAE creditors will try and use as a cheaper alternative to IRDWW and their cohorts that appear to have cost them £1000's in fees for nothing in return.   if this is not a letter of claim  pers i'd ignore them unless you have previous UK addresses since coming to the UK?
    • Thats the idea.....any further flaws with the reconstituted agreement ? They will be able to rely on a recon given that the agreement is post April 2007 but it must be accurate and a true copy of the agreement used from that date.   Andy
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Craigbadger

Creditor sent default and told me I was on an agreement to pay for 3 months on the same day

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Strange. I received a letter from Ulster last weds dated 22nd which I didnt take much notice of thinking it was a default sums. Today I read it and basically it was a response to a letter I wrote asking them to accept reduced payments. In simple terms they accepted my proposal and informed me that it would be entered as an arrangement to pay on my credit report. Then this monday I receive a default notice also dated 22nd.

 

Am I being dense here or does this not make sense?, the notice seems defective giving me 17 days and not first class. But surely they have contradicted themselves here.

 

I know its normal to be defaulted on an repayment plan but can you be defaulted and on an arrangement to pay at the same time?. I though that showed on the same bit.

Edited by Craigbadger

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A default occurs when the relationship between the creditor and debtor breaks down ie you go into arrears. The Information Commissioner's guidelines on whether or not a default should be entered whilst there is an arrangement to pay state that it should depend on the what ratio the arranged payment is of the scheduled payment eg if it is only a small payment then this can be recorded as a default. You can read the ICO's guide to filing defaults on their website under the Data Protection Act section.

 

If you want your DN checked, scan it and post it on here and we will take a look.

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Thanks, its £40 a month arrangement against a debt of £1700. I think the minimum was usually about £55. However it is £70 in arrears and over limit by £60.

 

Heres the default notice, I did post in another thread and there was some discussion on the delivery method "S". Appears to be a wholesale service. However the fact the 2 letter I received are dated the 22nd, and the default was days behind leaves me fairly sure it isnt a first class service.

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/ulster/ulsterdn.jpg

 

http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af299/badgercraig/ulster/ulsterenvelope.jpg

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They were very quick to enter a default when you are paying most of the scheduled repayment monthly. I would write to them and point out what the ICO guidelines say and ask them to remove the default or you will make a formal complaint to the ICO.

 

There is no provision in either the CCA 1974 (as amended in 2006) or the Credit Agreements (Enforcement,Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 for time to remedy a breach in a DN to be given as a number of days. In fact between both Acts it is specified no less than 5 times that a date for remedy must be a specific date. You will notice underneath it states "by the date shown" - what is that date? You don't know - they didn't specify a date. Sit on it and wait to see if they terminate then you can claim repudiation of contract for terminating after sending an unlawful Default Notice. That means that they can only claim arrears once they have terminated. This is non-legal advice. A court may take a different view but I have halted 3 banks in their tracks by raising this argument.

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About 3 weeks ago I sent a cca and a sar to Ulster, today theyve returned the cca letter with my postal order. I had missed a letter off the account number.

Will they still do the sar?, I had used the same template as a base for the 2 so the personal details were the same. Theyve not cashed the cheque but its only a 3 year old ccount so maybe they wont?

 

From what I gather its info on my name rather than account.

 

Account has been unlawfully terminated anyway now. Was just using the cca req as a delaying tactic.

Thanks.

 

:)

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if the a/c has been terminated the wont issue a cca anyhow as there is no agreement.

 

just hope its included in the sar then.

 

dx


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But they will still send a SAR even though the account number was wrong on the request?

Theyve not returned the request.

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An SAR is for the information on you as a person not a specific a/c, although adding those no.s does help.


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Hi.

Basically Triton are writing to me regarding an Ulster balance. It was only opened in 2008 however Ulster admitted in an SAR request that they have absolutely no documentation from when the account was opened. No agreement, ticked print offs or anything.

Tritons letters are getting a bit heavier, probably nothing but the latest one says they have

"now recommended solicitors be instructed to commence court proceedings"

which is a have rather than may.

Its not a huge balance but I could do without the hassle tbh at the moment and cant at present afford anything.

Anyone give me something to put in a letter to get them off my back for a while?, surely Ulster have defaulted the SAR by not sending any agreement or opening documentation and they did state they couldnt find anything after an extensive search.

Theyve continued to update my credit report which I presume is without my consent if no agreement exists.

 

Thanks in advance. :?:

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Tell them to get lost, without original documetation they CANNOT enforce this alleged debt via court.

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Triton Credit Services are The Royal Bank of Scotland's in-house collections arm.


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Report both to TS, the OFT and the ICO :)


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They're still breaching the DPO by reporting it to the CRAs!


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I thought this.

How shocking is it though that such a recent account they dont have paperwork for.

Am I right in thinking that with such a recent agreement they dont need a signed agreement as they would with an earlier 1 but would still need proof that I had agreed and consented to the terms?

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They'd need to prove that you signed electronically, the digital tick box, to enforce.


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They'd need to prove that you signed electronically, the digital tick box, to enforce.

 

You stated that they didn't even have that in your post earlier re: your SAR. No CCA = No debt, simples :)


"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

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Were there any screenshots or other documents included in the SAR which had any 'tick' boxes?


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Triton in NI is a couple of youths in Ulster Bank's offices in Stranmillis, Belfast, but the letters often come from the mainland.

 

There is no bulk claim issuing centre in NI, and Ulster Bank know that if a claim is issued in NI they'll have to supply any documents they intend to rely on with the claim papers. If they haven't got this, they're knackered.

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Oooh! I didn't know that SP :) Fanks :)


"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

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If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

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Send the idiots a copy of that letter along with this;

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

 

Account no

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated ........, the contents of which are noted

 

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On ......... I requested that ........... supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78. To date ........... have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to .............., nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

 

Clearly as no agreement was supplied on request, this in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

The above terms are inflexible and are backed up by case law:

 

McGinn v Grangewood Securities Ltd; Court of Appeal 23 April 2002 3 All ER 145; 105 Solicitor’s Journal 588

Wilson and others v Secretary of State for Trade and Industry (at Court of Appeal, known as Wilson v First County Trust) House of Lords 10 July 2003

London North Securities v Meadows (Supreme Court of Judicature Court of Appeal) 14 June 2005; Dimond v Lovell(2002) 1 AC 384

Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd ((In The Supreme Court Of Judicature Court of Appeal (Civil Division) 4 April 2007))

Bank of Scotland – v Mitchell 1 June 2009 – Leeds County Court Case 9LS70096 before HH Judge Langan Q.C.

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ............... become compliant with my request. As ................ are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until ............. comply with my request from .date........... or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Print name do not sign.


Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

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Don't put his signature in because it confuses them :)


"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Hahaha.

Thanks Cerb.

I should add they terminated early aswell so I guess I have very little to worry.

:)

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