Problem with faulty car purchased from a dealer

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

I purchased a VW Passat from a dealer in Dewsbury for £5250 on 10th June 2010. Within 24hrs the car has developed a couple of faults

1st fault is regarding the steering lock which in the log book states the car should not be driven and get the car to a VW workshop asap!.

2nd fault is regarding the bi-xenon headlights. The problem makes the car nearly impossible to drive at night due to the reduced vision distance as the headlight points down onto the road.

Both faults have appeared on the information screen as well as warning lights within 24hrs of picking the car up. I have had a diagnostics report done and VW have informed me I require a new Steering Column for the first fault at a cost of £1100 and a new headlight for the second fault at a cost of £800. As you can imagine I’m not happy!

I have been looking for ages for this car with this high spec I required so I would rather like the Dealer to get the car repaired than have a refund.

I have sent an email to the dealers regarding the problems but had no reply

What are my options and is there any legal letter templates around I could send to them to resolve the problem.

I hope somebody can help

[sailor sam]

Have you contacted the seller by phone to discuss the issues yet? That would be your first step. Under SOGA, you would have to give the seller the oppotunity to rectify (at no cost to you) before talking about legal routes.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[flub1976]

Not sure why you took it straight to VW? Like sailorsam says pop back to the dealer and see what happens. There are lots of proper mechanics out there that will probably fix the fault in an hour rather than replace half the car.

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

I could not pop back to the dealer as they are in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire and I live 130 miles away in Birmingham but the msg on the display stated the car should not be driven and to take the car to a VW workshop ASAP. I called the dealer today and told him the problems and he asked me to fax a copy of the quote and diagnostics report to him. To get this resolved it seems he has suggested me to now take out a Warranty so I can claim off that?? and has offered to pay for the warranty and said this would be cheaper for him than paying for the repairs...which seems to me a very dodgy suggestion...

[sailor sam]

I could not pop back to the dealer as they are in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire and I live 130 miles away in Birmingham but the msg on the display stated the car should not be driven and to take the car to a VW workshop ASAP. I called the dealer today and told him the problems and he asked me to fax a copy of the quote and diagnostics report to him. To get this resolved it seems he has suggested me to now take out a Warranty so I can claim off that?? and has offered to pay for the warranty and said this would be cheaper for him than paying for the repairs...which seems to me a very dodgy suggestion...

 

No, No, No as far as the warranty goes.

 

Your options are; to deliver the car back to the dealer to enable him to rectify the fault at no cost to yourself (excluding traveling costs). The reason I say that is simply that you would have to prove that the seller knowingly sold the car defective. Now I know what others will say that if a fault develops within 6 months of ownership that it is assumed it was present at the point of sale. That may be the case, but a court may not necessarily award you travel costs if the seller agrees to repair the car themselves. The other option is to arrange (with the seller) to have the necessary repairs carried out locally to you. The seller is not obliged to do this under SOGA but should in any event rectify the faults.

 

Your best bet would be that the seller refuses to arrange or carry out repairs in which case you could then reject the car.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[Conniff]

The warranty would be best for the seller as it will only cost him the price of the policy. The insurance company probably wont be fooled though, buying a policy one day and claiming on it the next will probably be rejected as the fault already existed.

Besides that, it is fraudulent. If the seller wants to do it that way, then let him, but you musn't have anything to do with it or you will be an accessory.

 

It is up to him to fix it and how he goes about it is his business, so tell him he will have to either come and get it at his cost or allow you to get it done locally and he pays the bill.

 

If they do agree to you getting it done locally, make sure you get that in writing by either letter or email.

 

Contact him by email and not phone so you get everything in writing.

[Surfer01]

Follow up every email with a letter in writing preferably sent recorded mail so that the can't say that they did not receive it. This dealer is inciting you to commit fraud and hopefully they did this in writing in which case they will be doing a lot more than repairing your car.

[flub1976]

Be careful of demanding collection. I was ruled for in court due to the customer insisting I paid collection of this car from 50 miles away. The court found the cust knew how far away i was and I had offered full repair. Intrestingly the customer never let me have the vehicle or repair it and ended up with nothing. I even got costs and asked for travel at £20! all over a faulty alternator on an astra!

 

As above how he sorts it is up to him as long as he does. Im afraid that there are lots of issues with steering columns on the newer passatts not sure on older ones and they are expensive to fix (£600 for the last at my very friendly main dealer) If this is the problem I think some independant specialist can now sort them. Maybe try finding a local specialist to have a look for you or try ringing them as if the dealer can only take it to VW it night be cheaper for him if its done near you.

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

Be careful of demanding collection. I was ruled for in court due to the customer insisting I paid collection of this car from 50 miles away. The court found the cust knew how far away i was and I had offered full repair. Intrestingly the customer never let me have the vehicle or repair it and ended up with nothing. I even got costs and asked for travel at £20! all over a faulty alternator on an astra!

 

As above how he sorts it is up to him as long as he does. Im afraid that there are lots of issues with steering columns on the newer passatts not sure on older ones and they are expensive to fix (£600 for the last at my very friendly main dealer) If this is the problem I think some independant specialist can now sort them. Maybe try finding a local specialist to have a look for you or try ringing them as if the dealer can only take it to VW it night be cheaper for him if its done near you.

 

VW have quoted £640 just for parts as when changing the steering column (£350) you also have to change the convience control unit (£290). £400 VW Labour costs, I have asked other independant garages and they told me its only a VW repair.

Problem with getting the car back to the dealer in Dewsbury is its a 130 miles away and the manual states the car should not be driven with this fault. I would not feel comfortable driving that distance knowing I have been warned.

[sailor sam]

VW have quoted £640 just for parts as when changing the steering column (£350) you also have to change the convience control unit (£290). £400 VW Labour costs, I have asked other independant garages and they told me its only a VW repair.

Problem with getting the car back to the dealer in Dewsbury is its a 130 miles away and the manual states the car should not be driven with this fault. I would not feel comfortable driving that distance knowing I have been warned.

 

It seems then option 'B' is the only avenue to go down. Be warned though, the seller is only obliged to rectify the faults (unless you can prove he knowingly sold the car with the faults). I'm not sure he has to arrange for the car to be recovered from that distance. His defence would be; 'it's not his fault you live 130 miles away'.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

It seems then option 'B' is the only avenue to go down. Be warned though, the seller is only obliged to rectify the faults (unless you can prove he knowingly sold the car with the faults). I'm not sure he has to arrange for the car to be recovered from that distance. His defence would be; 'it's not his fault you live 130 miles away'.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

On the disgnostic report many of the faults have dates and times 2 weeks before I purchased the car. (actually 2 of the faults show up 2 hrs before I picked the car up on the day of purchase). Would this be evidence of knowing faults at the time of sale?.

Thx

Mark

[Surfer01]

If you drive the car knowingly with a fault and you have a mishap, the insurance company may give you hassles about paying out. As this appears to be an inherent fault with thsi type of car maybe thsi is an avenue you coudl investigate and find out if VW did a recall. Is so, the fault should be rectified free fo charge regardless of whether you had the car from new or not..

[my-spirit-soars-free]

It seems then option 'B' is the only avenue to go down. Be warned though, the seller is only obliged to rectify the faults (unless you can prove he knowingly sold the car with the faults). I'm not sure he has to arrange for the car to be recovered from that distance. His defence would be; 'it's not his fault you live 130 miles away'.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

 

 

I would guess that the car was advertised on the internet, or a national car magazine?

 

If that is the case, then the dealer is asking people who live anywhere in the UK to buy from him, so why should he not recover the car from 130 miles away?

 

I am just having this argument with an ebay seller, not for a car, who feels it is reasonable to expect me to do a 6 hour drive to get the thing back to him for repair, and then again a couple of days later to pick it up again!

[flub1976]

As a dealer who has been sat in front of the district judge on this one I would say its not a good argument as stated above. You travelled to ge tthe car and he willing to repair it. Dont confuse some companies great service and free collection and delivery with a right.

 

The ebay point is another one where ebay regard return postage for a refund as being the responsibily of the buyer not the seller. its the same principle

[sailor sam]

I would guess that the car was advertised on the internet, or a national car magazine?

 

If that is the case, then the dealer is asking people who live anywhere in the UK to buy from him, so why should he not recover the car from 130 miles away?

 

I am just having this argument with an ebay seller, not for a car, who feels it is reasonable to expect me to do a 6 hour drive to get the thing back to him for repair, and then again a couple of days later to pick it up again!

 

While I accept where your'e comming from, a judge may say it works both ways. The OP wasn't forced to purchase the car from a seller who is 130 miles way either. I don't think the seller's normal obligation goes further than saying he will repair the faults at no cost to the OP.

 

However, the OP is saying he may have evidence to show that some of the faults existed prior to purchase and it's reasonable to assume that the seller would have been aware of this. The judge may of coures take a different view if the OP can convince the judge that the car was miss-sold in the first place.

 

All this of course would have to be argued in court and I am assuming that this would have to happen before the OP could recover his travel expences. Perhaps I am jumping the gun and the seller will allow the OP to have the repairs done locally and pay the bill.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

As I understand the Sale of Goods Act, it states that the seller is obliged to fix the item at no further cost to the buyer. I have never seen anything, in any of the guidance on the act, that states the Sale of Goods act only applies if you live within a specified distance of the seller. I would also argue that anyone who advertises nationally has to be prepared to provide the back up service nationally, the Sale of Goods act does not allow for the situation where a trader would like to sell to the Shetlands, but feels it really is rather too much hassle to offer an after sales service to people out there.

 

Ebay's own rules do not need to comply with UK law, they are not a UK company - but individual sellers do.

[heliosuk]

On the disgnostic report many of the faults have dates and times 2 weeks before I purchased the car. (actually 2 of the faults show up 2 hrs before I picked the car up on the day of purchase). Would this be evidence of knowing faults at the time of sale?.

Thx

Mark

 

No it won't at all. This is because fault codes are registered as either being live or historic and you can't rely on a cars ECU as being accurate 100%. The ECU logs data that it thinks is wrong. It's not necessarily wrong. What happens is that that it compares signals and if they fall out side of this then it's logged. Unless they have a computer permanently corrected and watched they would know. My car logs faults all the time on the emissions system but there is nothing wrong with it. It's set up to operate outside the manufactuer coded parameters.

You would not be able to prove this.

[jelly-82]

hiya, where did you buy the vehicle? just wondering, also in dispute with a dealer from (earlsheaton) Dewsbury.

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

The car has decided on a couple of occasions not to start over the last few days and after some investigation, I have found this is due to the fault regarding the Steering Lock.

Anyway, I have been speaking to the dealer who I purchased the car off and faxed over the diagnostic report that has been done showing the faults. His conclusion is for me to drive 130 miles (5 hr round trip) back to Dewsbury (I live in B-ham) so he can get his garage to repair the problem. I have told him that it’s a VW only fix but he seems not to take any notice of that.

As I have mentioned before the problem with getting the car back to the dealer in Dewsbury is its a 130 miles away and a 5hr round trip and more importantly, the manual states on this fault that the car should not be driven at all Never mind the 130 miles up a motorway. I would not feel comfortable driving that distance knowing I have been warned.

My concerns are:

1. The dealer he will only try to clear the faults and not repair the problem and the fault re-appearing later.

2. The dealer gets a steering column and Con unit from a car that has been in an accident and replaces the faulty one with this. (As you would expect, I would not be happy to have a steering column from a car that’s been in an accident).

3. I waste my time by driving all that distance, them having the car for weeks, only to find the car has to be sent in to a VW garage after all, Which could have been done locally to me)

4. What are the implications regarding insurance if I have an accident while driving knowing this fault and its warning not to drive?

You may think I don’t have any confidence regarding the dealer but I’m sure the car was sold to me with them knowing about these faults and he even wanted to commit fraud regarding the warranty. So no, I don’t have any confidence that the problem will be sorted correctly and either the car will be dangerous to drive after a bodged up repair by them or I’m going to be left without a car for weeks while it sits in their garage while they find a way of getting it done on the cheap.

Please, any input and suggestions regarding this would be appreciated.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

If you have an accident that is caused by the fault which you know about then you are likely to be held liable.

 

I suspect that if the car is damaged further by your driving it while the manual tells you not to you will also end up having to pay for the damage. (Not that I know whether that could happen with this fault).

 

 

If you look at the Sale of goods act it specifies that the seller has to repair the fault without major inconvenience to the buyer. I would accept that is the seller is a mile down the road, asking him to recover the car is being daft, it is not a major inconvenience to drop the car off. This seller is asking you to take a day off work, get the train home (or is he lending you a courtesy car?), then do the same thing again a few days later? I would feel that was a major inconvenience, and I can't see many courts not agreeing.

 

 

I would say that was contrary to paragraph 48B, of SOGA:

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1979/cukpga_19790054_en_6#pt6-l1g55

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

If you have an accident that is caused by the fault which you know about then you are likely to be held liable.

 

I suspect that if the car is damaged further by your driving it while the manual tells you not to you will also end up having to pay for the damage. (Not that I know whether that could happen with this fault).

 

 

If you look at the Sale of goods act it specifies that the seller has to repair the fault without major inconvenience to the buyer. I would accept that is the seller is a mile down the road, asking him to recover the car is being daft, it is not a major inconvenience to drop the car off. This seller is asking you to take a day off work, get the train home (or is he lending you a courtesy car?), then do the same thing again a few days later? I would feel that was a major inconvenience, and I can't see many courts not agreeing.

 

 

I would say that was contrary to paragraph 48B, of SOGA:

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1979/cukpga_19790054_en_6#pt6-l1g55

 

The Seller requires me to take 2 days out of work (£130 per day) and drive 250 miles a round trip taking nearly 5 hours to deliver the car and another 250 miles and 5 hrs to pick the car back up after they look at the problem.

I will be out of pocket to the sum of £350 with this all taken into consideration and I feel this is a major inconvenience to me.

I would really like to take it to a local dealer and get them to sort out the problems as the main repair is a dealer only repair the cost would be the same at Dewsbury VW as it would cost at Birmingham VW.

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

No, No, No as far as the warranty goes.

 

Your options are; to deliver the car back to the dealer to enable him to rectify the fault at no cost to yourself (excluding traveling costs). The reason I say that is simply that you would have to prove that the seller knowingly sold the car defective. Now I know what others will say that if a fault develops within 6 months of ownership that it is assumed it was present at the point of sale. That may be the case, but a court may not necessarily award you travel costs if the seller agrees to repair the car themselves. The other option is to arrange (with the seller) to have the necessary repairs carried out locally to you. The seller is not obliged to do this under SOGA but should in any event rectify the faults.

 

Your best bet would be that the seller refuses to arrange or carry out repairs in which case you could then reject the car.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

Edited July 9, 2010 by DebtUpToMyEyeBalls

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

I have now found out the reason why the seller wants the car taken to his work and not repaired locally to me. He has openly admitted he wants to use a second hand Steering Column and Convenience Unit from a car that has been in an accident as he does not to pay the price of the repair at a VW Garage!. He is willing to collect the car and leave me with a another car until the repair has been done!.

I asked what time scales will the car be repaired in and he said he does not know. I said I would not be happy if the car took weeks to be repaired, but he said he can’t give a time scale but “he does not want me calling him every other day and stressing him out about it”. What a cheeky B*****d, Stress him about it, what about the stress on me and my family.

 

I have grave concerns about what kind of repair this guy is going to get done on my car using damaged parts. So I will have to wait until he finds a suitable damaged car which could take months only to find out he actually can’t use them as the parts have to be paired to the ABS, Keys and the remapping the immobiliser. This saga will run and run and I will end up with a car with all these problems not be resolved and months down the line unable to anything about it.

 

Also this guy is going to find me a car to use while it’s being repaired, once again he openly admitted it will not be to the same standards or value, of the car he sold me. I can imagine him giving me a car that’s worth a couple of quid and it’s not insured for me to drive as these type of people don’t care to much about the law in this country.

This all sounds to dodgy for me and I think I have to go down the road of rejecting the car, but I can’t see anything coming from that either.

 

Please any advice would be welcome as I’m getting very stressed about the situation.

Edited July 9, 2010 by DebtUpToMyEyeBalls

[sailor sam]

He is willing to collect the car eh? This wasn't in writing by any chance? In any event I would not be happy with the seller's proposals either. There is no way that you can except a steering column from an accident damaged car!

 

I think it's time to move this up a gear as i'm sure you don't want to be 'calling him every other day' either.

 

Contact him and say that his offer is not acceptable to you. You want only new parts fitted to the steering fo fairly obvious reasons and apart from the fact of how much you paid for the car in the first place. If this is not going to happen, then tell him that you will formally reject the car under the SOGA. Even if he tells you to go fourth, follow this up in writing giving him 7 days to respond (keep copies).

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[DebtUpToMyEyeBalls]

My concern is that I dont trust them at all, and he might well agree to fitting new parts but actually doing what he originally want to do and fit the second hand parts..where do I stand then? To be totaly honest I dont feel right letting them have it as I will be without my car for weeks even months after spending over £5000 to purchase the car in the first place.