Council PCN, contravention 01 (and not sure why!)

[huppelkutje]

Hi Guys,

 

Having recently been offered a job in the UK I've just moved into a new flat and it would appear that the morning after I moved in I got a council PCN, however the ticket was not attached to my car until later in the day after the 'offence' had taken place and I had moved my car to a different part of the street!

 

I got to the flat late (I was waiting for the landlord to drop the front door key round but at 11pm he hadn't shown; luckily another tenant let me in!) and as far as I'm aware the car was legally on single yellow lines, I couldn't find a space near the door and had to park right down the other end of the street just before the double yellow lines at the end of the road near the T junction. The next morning around 10am there was a closer space so I moved the car (it had no ticket on it then!), took the last of my stuff into the flat and then went to visit my mum with my boyfriend in his car.

 

When I got back the day after I found a ticket on my windscreen stating "Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (Code 01)" which I couldnt understand as all the cars around me didn't have tickets but I checked the time and date and noticed it was a 3 minute period the previous day before I had moved the car closer.

 

I was told before I moved here by the landlord that parking is allowed on one side of the street only and it changes every month to the other side (for street cleaning/gutter sweeping maybe?!) but I was definitely on the right side of the road for this month and have checked the road signs to make sure. Hence the single yellow lines on both sides of the road I presume.

 

I would like to see photographic evidence of what I did wrong because as far as I knew I was parked correctly. Do I have to appeal first before I can see any photos the warden took? Could the fact that the notice wasn't issued immediately go in my favour? I'm 100% sure that it wasn't just a case of me not seeing the ticket when I went to move the car, it definitely wasn't there. Could I argue that I was unloading my car, I can prove I was moving in and it would take longer than 3 minutes to walk from the car to the house and back.

 

I intend to have a look at the double yellow line termination tomorrow in the daylight and take photos if it's dodgy at all but would appreciate any advice anyone might have. I'll be able to scan my ticket tomorrow too.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Is there a ban on returning within a certain time?

 

I assume you have checked the registration number, it being the end of exam time there are a lot of teenagers around, and moving parking tickets is a rather jolly jape?

[huppelkutje]

Funny you say that, I did think it was one of those practical joke tickets at first because I didn't think I'd parked illegally anywhere! No it's legit and it's got my car details on it. The parking restriction is in force from 9am to 9pm, that's all it says on the signs. Near where I parked half the sign used to point in the direction of the double yellows and say "no parking at any time" but that part has been painted over. I can see that the double yellows used to extend further but these have been removed and replaced with a single yellow, presumably because so many cars try to park here.

 

I'm sure I wasn't on double yellows (although it was dark and I'd never been there before!) but unless I see a photo I can't be sure. If one wheel is on them can I argue De Minimis even though it was near a T-junction?

[my-spirit-soars-free]

I am just wondering about the legality of putting a ticket on your car after it had been moved. I am no expert on that aspect, so you may have to wait for a bit for one of the rather clever people who understand pcns to turn up.

[Michael Browne]

The most likely expanation is that, despite your certainty, the ticket was on your car when you moved it and you just didn't notice it. I would think that it would be impossible for the CEO's PDA to issue a ticket retrospectively ie for the day before

[huppelkutje]

But the ticket came in a big yellow plastic bag; and the street next to mine is a one way system so I had to drive 'round the block' which was quite a way. Also my boyfriend was with me and didn't see it either. And I walked round the car to fold my mirrors in and didn't see a ticket!

Edited June 28, 2010 by huppelkutje

[Michael Browne]

But the ticket came in a big yellow plastic bag; Also my boyfriend was with me and didn't see it either. And I walked round the car to fold my mirrors in and didn't see a ticket!

Ok.

 

 

and the street next to mine is a one way system so I had to drive 'round the block' which was quite a way.

Were you parked in the oneway street or in your road. What location is given on the ticket, are the service and contravention dates the same, ie both the previous day. Or were they dated the following day when you found the ticket.

 

Sorry for all the questions but you've taken so much detail out of the scan

[huppelkutje]

I rang the council and they said they will only show me the photos if I appeal first. They said the car was parked with both wheels on double yellows and have a photo to show this, also one with the ticket attached. So I guess my eyesight needs testing!!! I explained I'd just moved there and gave unloading as an excuse but they said I have to be seen to be unloading within 3 minutes, I did say it would take longer than that to get to my house and back and that there weren't any closer spaces at the time but I don't think she believed me!

 

I was parked on my street, at the other end to where the house is. Turning out of that road would put me on the one way street. I took a lot of details off after reading guidelines on a sticky here. The dates of service and contravention are the same and the street name is the correct one that I was parked on.

[lamma]

"I rang the council and they said they will only show me the photos if I appeal first. " That was naughty of them. They should supply upon request. Shame you asked over the phone, email would have been better as you would have a written record of them saying this. Never deal with councils over the phone - if you really have to phone them then record the call. What council is this ?

[Michael Browne]

I explained I'd just moved there and gave unloading as an excuse but they said I have to be seen to be unloading within 3 minutes,

That's rubbish, loading/unloading is ususally limited to 20 mins, but doesn't have to be continous, to allow for deliveries to above street level, signing delivery notes etc

I did say it would take longer than that to get to my house and back and that there weren't any closer spaces at the time but I don't think she believed me!

 

You could claim exemption for unloading on the DYL if this was the only available space, however could only stay no longer than absolutely necessary and you would have to have moved immediately you had finished, not from 11pm until 10am the following day. What time was the ticket issued?

[huppelkutje]

I didn't tell them what time I'd parked there, only that I'd been moving in and was taking my stuff inside. I told her I had moved the car when I saw a closer space become available.

 

Not sure whether to say which council because it's such a strange (unique?) road with parking on alternate sides on alternate months. I'm a bit paranoid they'll be reading this!! It's in Essex. There is no email address to contact them with on the PCN itself, and only a contact form on their website. At the end of the day, either I really was just on the double yellows (which I didn't realise wasn't allowed so that's my own fault) or I was fully on the double yellows; still my own fault!

[green_and_mean]

"I rang the council and they said they will only show me the photos if I appeal first. " That was naughty of them. They should supply upon request.

 

Why? It would be a breach of the data protection act just to send out photos willy nilly to anyone that asks.

[lamma]

To anyone who validly asks - i.e. after verification. people do lose PCNS and dups are supposed to be supplied. being told 'appeal first' by the council is wrong and prejudicial. They are not supposed to do that.

[huppelkutje]

Just spoke to my boyfriend and he insists the car didnt have a ticket when I moved it! Even went as far as to suggest the warden put someone else's ticket on my window for the purposes of the photograph, although I can't see why that would have happened. Also said he's positive it could only have been my front tyre on the double yellows. And reminded me that I'd moved my car forward a little bit after pulling in to give the car behind more space in case he wanted to pull out. Wish I hadn't donre that now! Argghh, bloody council!

 

Does anyone know the rules regarding viewing the evidence before starting an appeal?

[my-spirit-soars-free]

You could just appeal anyway, you have the informal appeal, the formal appeal, and then arbitration.

 

Our council still give the discount period if they refuse the appeal.

 

How about you post a picture of the sign as well, and the double yellows? Just in case they are unenforceable?

[huppelkutje]

Having a bit of trouble uploading a pic from my phone but I think I've got it sussed now...

[huppelkutje]

Here's the sign

[huppelkutje]

Just received the pictures from the council and a copy of the warden's notebook, I was definitely on the double yellows and there is a photo of my car with a pcn on the bottom of the windscreen. But the dates in the notebook don't follow in chronological order. My car was observed around 9am and that's what it says on the ticket, but in the notebook my details are between a car observed at 9.30 and a car observed at 10am.

[lamma]

can we see it.

[huppelkutje]

Sorry I said 'dates' but I meant to write 'times'. The date and time in the notebook match my PCN but my car (logged as no.2 vehicle of the day at 9am) is between No.1 vehicle at 9.30am and No. 3 vehicle at 10am. There are no times on the photographs, only the date.

 

Would this be grounds to dispute a PCN? The attached letter rejecting my challenge says that if no loading/unloading is seen within 3 minutes then a PCN can be issued.

 

I can scan the notebook tomorrow at work.

[huppelkutje]

Scan of notebook attached

[huppelkutje]

That's a bit small, this might be better

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae251/littlemiss_kitty/0d35bc99.jpg