Natwest Loan - to Wescot now Robinson Way

[tonixx]

A door step collection

[alfwithhair]

A door step collection

 

Yes Mr White, Mr Brown or maybe Mr Green will send you his calling card.

 

But don't rush out to get the earl gray and custard creams, as he never turns up. Mr Greens first call of the day is usually in John o Groats at 9am, his next is in Plymouth a 9.15am, so as they are not issued with time machines as a company vehicle he finds it difficult to keep to his schedule. LOL

 

Just more intimidating drivel to get you to phone them.

[tonixx]

Little recap, Natwest loan, passed to Wescot, CCA'd, natwest replied with 'we want your signature' - ignored, as advised on here - buying time ? , Dispute letter sent, Wescot replied with 'No more action will be taken on your account til resolved'

 

Now, today recieved this letter, again asking for the signature.

 

 

Should I reply with the

 

Dear Sirs,

 

RE Account NO XXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2010 the contents of which are noted

In your letter you make reference to requiring my specimen signature before you comply. I draw

your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that i supply you

a copy of my signature before you comply with my S77/78** request.

 

If it is for Data Protection purposes then i can happily supply you with documentation to

substantiate my identity to you.

 

However please note that to date you have happily sent statements and correspondence

containing extensive sensitive private information to my address. I have to ask if you are

concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why has it taken so long to

raise this?

 

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the

7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

 

7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised

or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or

damage to, personal data.

 

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 77/78** was made on

xx/xx/2010 and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xx/xx/2010. I note that

there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on

time, even if you are unsure of my identity.

 

I look forward to receiving the documentation requested

 

Regards

 

Print

 

Or continue to ignore?

 

Thanks.

[PGH7447]

send the above, so they think its resolved cause you wont supply a signature - idiots

[cerberusalert]

Someone posted this info which you may like to make use of.

Select committee on Trade and Industry minutes of evidence

(1996 Legislative working party)

 

2. The working party looked at the legal issues regarding the terms document, writing, signature, instrument, and records of transactions and originality. The Government's current proposed legislation focuses particularly upon the issue of signature. The working party considered the leading case in English law on signature methods, Goodman -v- J Eban Limited. That decision established that:

 

2.1 mechanical signatures using rubber stamps, printing or typewriting were valid in english law;

2.2 a signature can be by a mark rather than a name as long as evidence can be given to indentify the placer of the mark and the intention to sign; and

2.3 words other than a name can amount to a signature if the necessary intention to sign can be proven

 

Now although this working party was looking into the Electronics Commerce Bill it points to . .

 

Goodman v J Eban Ltd (1954)

 

A solicitor signed a solicitors bill with a rubber stamp which contained the name of the law firm. In the judgment it was determined that the rubber stamp was a valid signature, even theough the Solicitors Act of 1932 required a solicitors bill to be signed; it was established that it is enough to demonstrate that the rubber stamp was affixed by the solicitor with the intention to sign the solicitor's bill.

 

So now taking the highlights above I go to:

 

Interpretations act 1978

 

Schedule 1

 

1973 c.37.

 

"Writing" includes typing, lithograpgy, photography or other modes of representing or reproducing words in a visible form and expressions refering to writing can be construed accordingly

[tonixx]

Its resolved again as far as they are concerned!

 

"We refer to your recent communication. Having contacted our client they have advised under the guidelines they have been given regarding section 77 requests, the bank requires a specimen signature from the customer in order for them to comply with your request."

 

What next guys? Are they right, or is this bull.....?

[PGH7447]

ignore it - or send the same letter you sent earlier, stating in big bold letters

 

If you do not understand this then pass to someone who does

[rameses_qc]

S77/78 CCA 1974 makes no mention about the requirement for a signature, and it makes no provision for the information to be witheld because of this or anything else. They cannot make their own amendments to Acts of Parliament just because they feel like it. In any case, there is no mention of ascertaining the identity of the person requesting the info. After all, they were sure enough it was you when they started Collection action.

[panther12]

I’m in the same boat regarding PratWest now insisting on a sig.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/251499-help-required-natwest-overdraft.html#post2844594

 

They had no problem sending extensive private & personal info in response to all the other digitally signed letters, or complying with our digitally signed CCA request by sending the usual tosh and saying they don’t have to include the signature or signature box to satisfy our CCA request. However, since sending them a SAR they’ve now gone all shy and returned our request & fee until we prove who we are by providing a sig!

[cerberusalert]

I’m in the same boat regarding PratWest now insisting on a sig.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/251499-help-required-natwest-overdraft.html#post2844594

 

They had no problem sending extensive private & personal info in response to all the other digitally signed letters, or complying with our digitally signed CCA request by sending the usual tosh and saying they don’t have to include the signature or signature box to satisfy our CCA request. However, since sending them a SAR they’ve now gone all shy and returned our request & fee until we prove who we are by providing a sig!

 

Tell them you will pick up the documentation at your local branch where you will provide suitable identification, warn them that if they don't resolve this situation you will be complaining to the ico.

[tonixx]

6yrs ago or so, took out a loan with Natwest, one thing or another, got behind with payments. TBH forgot about it til about a year ago, and found out they was after their payments.

 

It was passed to Wescot, I sent them the CCA request, they defaulted on it, this was 20th January this year. Weve been going backwards and forwards, Sending letters to Wescot, them forwarding to Natwest, Natwest saying they need my signature, me saying they dont, and its still in dispute.

 

On Friday, we got a letter from Robinsons way who now have the debt.

 

Am I right in thinking Wescot cannot pass the debt, as its in dispute with them?

[fuzzybobble]

Send them the account in dispute letter. That should get them to pass it back.

 

As you said the loan was 6 years ago, when was the last time you paid anything on it? Might be close on being Statute Barred if it's almost 6 years since you last made a payment.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes you are right,they should not but they do.

Requesting account info,is within itself though not enough for consideration of a dispute-you need to spell out to them in writing WHY you regard the account as in dispute.

It looks like there are breaches here in OFT DC guidelines,which you should be pointing out.

Both Wescot and RW are members of the CSA and look to be breaching those codes of practice too.

did you check your credit files recently to see what is recorded there ?

[tonixx]

Send them the account in dispute letter. That should get them to pass it back.

 

As you said the loan was 6 years ago, when was the last time you paid anything on it? Might be close on being Statute Barred if it's almost 6 years since you last made a payment.

 

I cannot remember the exact date, id imagine its well over 4yrs ago.

 

Would the SAR (?) request tell me the last payment on the account? I will request this next - i think - as it does have alot of charges on the account and will buy time, but whether or not they'll send it, when they refuse the CCA because of the lack of signature, is another thing.

[2Grumpy]

No need for a SAR at the moment

 

No need for a signature on a CCA request either.

 

And when you get their CCA from them they will tell you that there is no need for you signature to be on the CCA - unless you provide them with a specimen for them to paintshop on to their reconstructed agreement by signing your request.

 

NatWest are very poor at providing agreements from more than a few years ago. They will put up stalling arguments to avoid admitting that they don't have the agreement.

 

If they persist with their argument ask them which clause of the act specifies that you must provide a signature.

 

Meanwhile you have made a valid request that they haven't responded to.

[firstship]

Tonixx............important rule do not phone them,only deal with this matter in writing..........are you paying any money to BC at the present time????????..........FS...................regarding Natwest just wait for their next move, do not contact them

Edited November 16, 2010 by firstship
missed out line

[tonixx]

Hi,

 

No their currently not getting a penny.

 

As for Natwest, ive no idea whats happening. The balls in their court. Were at deadlock as they refuse to send a CCA as ive not supplied a signature or account number for the debt....(havent had the account for about 4yrs, and have no paperwork, all I have is the reference number that comes on the letters, yet this isnt enough )

[harrassed senior]

Judging by their silence Nat West know there is no basis in Law for requiring your signature on the CCA Request. If it crops up again their is a letter in the Templates Library that informs them why this is NOT necessary.

 

Trouble is when the DCAs get even greedier when they are getting paid, is that they 'shoot themselves in the foot' and end up with no payments at all. They gamble on you knowing your rights, and, unfortunately of the many thousands in debt and under the clutches of these people, only a very few know of CAG or similar sites and embolden themselves to fight back.

[firstship]

As Harrassed S says let Natwest make the next move....................BC send the account in default letter,and wait for their reply...........will watch out for your next thread............FS

[tonixx]

Just to update this... Robinsons Way ran away with their tail between their legs.

 

Natwest wasnt impressed.... went away for a couple of months and came back with EquiDebt.... just sent them the same letter - that its in dispute with Natwest, and they replied saying they need to get confirmation from Natwest.... ummmm when will they give up.

[PGH7447]

when they reach the bottom of the bottom feeders, not long now

[tonixx]

In 2010, I CCA'd Natwest over a loan, which was refused because they needed my signature and account number.... which I refused. (dont know the account number as the account was closed YEARs ago)

 

Im just wondering, as I CCA'd them when they last tried chasing us, is this classed as acknowledgement to the debt?

 

We last made a payment in 2007, so would be coming up to statute barred if not. I dont know the exact date, because Natwest never produced an agreement.

 

Thankyou.

[postggj]

If they are not chasing you, just ignore, why stir up trouble with a request

[ims21]

A CCA request does not reset the SB clock.

[tonixx]

Thankyou Ims. Thats what I was hoping. So after that, they can no longer add more defaults to my credit file? I understand the latest default remains for 6yrs in its own right, they dont just dissappear because the debt is SB.