Now we know why we have inefficieny!

[Surfer01]

Have a read through this article I worked on a temporary basis in the public sector and a lot of what is said in the article is true. Now we know why there are so many people employed in the public sector to male up for those that are on constant sickies!

I have to admit I did come across some who worked really hard but they were few and far between and under a lot of stress due to their collegues taking sickies all the time.

These people who take constant sickies are the people who the government should be targetting to save millions or maybe even billons of pounds. Obviously there are some genuine long term sick people who through no fault of their own are sick constantly, but are they a minority or a majority.

The government should be cleansing its own pile of poo before targetting those on ESA, DLA and similar benefits.

[Mungypup]

I never worked for the council so I cannot comment on that. I worked for DWP for 10 years, and left a couple of years ago. I worked in an office where people were petrified of falling ill. Petrified, because articles like this had made our procedures rediculous. Articles like this made the public angry (obviously) and so they had to be seen to do something about it. Even though, our office was never like that in the first place. What were we left with?? I can tell you it was hell. It is still hell for my former colleagues who are left petrified of being ill. (If memory serves me correctly) If you are off sick for more than 7 days in any rolling 12 month period you are given a verbal warning. you are then on a 2 year roll back period after recieving your first warning. Obviously after a verbal it goes to written and so on. If it is a one off incident managers can just mark it down as a cause for concern and not give you a warning. I remember a colleague of mine who was off sick due to a heart attack. They refused to treat it as a one off as once you've had one heart attack, it's likely you could have another. Another colleague of mine had an allergic reaction to over the counter medication. He nearly died, was in hospital for months, and came back to work after 6 months bald, like a stick (he was a big bloke before) obviously still recovering and it physicaly showed just how ill he'd been. They said that they would treat this as a one off, but if he was to go off sick for one day in the next 12 months for any reason they would have to give him a verbal warning. I know of another colleague who had a stroke, they wanted her to go into work to recieve her warning even though she was still in a wheelchair and was unable to speak. They cannot issue the warning until you have gone in, and they wanted to get it out of the way and make sure it was on her record. Managers hands are tied as if they do not follow the procedures they can themselves be disciplined, and they aren't going to stick their neck out when they can't guarantee that someone won't fall ill or have an accident. What they have ended up with is offices with some people who are not working to standard as they are ill, people spreading their illnesses so the whole office gets ill, people on crutches who legally shouldn't be there, as if you've been given a sick note their insurance doesn't cover you, so you shouldn't be there but they can't risk staying at home. I have problems with my bones, I was told I needed an operation on my wrist. I talked to my boss about it and they said they couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't come back to a warning. I ended up opting for steriod injection as I couldn't afford the risk of being on the downward spiral that our system was. I had no choice but to carry on suffering. I've known several people who have taken them to court over their dismissal (Luckily I chose to leave), and they have won as the department have acted unfairly and in some cases with clear discrimination. Many who have lost their jobs are too afraid to take them to court, or can't afford it, or are too busy batteling cancer. They think that it's the government, they must be acting legally, must be able to get away with it. So please people, the next time you see an article like this, have a thought for the people who are at the other end of the scale. People who work so damned hard and should have better reasons to worry about having another heart attack than how their employer will react.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Mungypup

[Surfer01]

The very reason why I mentioned that there were indeed some people with genuine illnesses. Seems they go from one extreme to the other with discipline.

[babybear39]

I can back up MPs info as I too was a civil servant with the DHSS (now DWP) and for the Department of Energy.

[Surfer01]

Now the public sector gets paid a lot more than a person doing an equivalent job in the private sector and they have a better pension as brown stole all our pensions in the private sector. In addition, now in the private sector it is not viable for a business to have a final salary pension scheme so why shouldn't the public sector have the same restrcition?

[Mungypup]

You are very deluded if you really believe that people in the public sector on a whole get paid more than people in the private sector. And they have had cuts to their pensions!!!! I know from experience . Sure, there are some people who earn a lot, the big wigs who are high up, but as for the normal staff, they earn on average less, usually have to work overtime just to keep their what's supposed to be 'normal' targets, aren't allowed to be ill, and are basicly treated like c***. Meanwhile, whilst all these jobs are going (job cuts are ongoing and have been in DWP for years), the staff that are left are expected to pick up the pieces, make sure targets are still met regardless of what it takes, how late you have to work because there aren't enough staff, don't dare be sick, otherwise they know come the next selection process they will be the next ones on the chopping block. Take it from someone who worked for them for ten years and has many friends still there, it's no picnic. I know people in the private sector are suffering the same pressures, obviously, due to the recession businesses are having to cut overheads and it has the same affect on their staff. I just get fed up with people thinking that Civil Servants are in a better boat and it's one thing I really will stamp my feet and get on my soap box about. Articles like above are released to get a reaction so that when they sack thousands of people you won't be complaining. Some will even be pleased the 'tea drinkers' are going. It's only when the services stop people will notice that it wasn't such a good idea, and maybe they did do something after all!! I'm all for making cuts, it has to be done, the problem is the cuts never happen where they need to. They get rid of the frontline staff so that the numbers being released look good. It's the people at the top who do nothing but make silly decisions that make services harder and get paid lots for the prevelidge of messing things up that need to go.

 

At the end of the day I was just someone doing my job, trying to survive in the world, just as I am now. Why people thought that I had a comparatively higher salary or fantasticly lazy working conditions because my employer happened to be the government is beyond me! Oh hang on, it's because of all these silly press releases isn't it. *sigh*

Edited June 26, 2010 by Mungypup

[Surfer01]

Forgot to add is that I worked in the public sector for a while and found the article to be very close to the truth. Out of the 22 working days per month, there was only enough work for 10 days and the rest of the time you sat around doing nothing as there was absolutely no work to do. This applied to a team of about 9 people. IMHO 5 people coudl have doen the work in half the time. Most boring job I ever did and was glad when my contract was finished.

As for pay, although I was a supervisor in private sector, a clerk in public sector was higher paid than what I was being paid in private sector by a few thousand and had a lot more benefits!

[Mungypup]

Can I ask when you did this stint? As what you are describing does sound like the Civil Service of old, that died before I started there. Back in the day things were like that, I'd heard the stories from the old staff, and I guess that's another reason why people think that. Trust me, at least where I used to work, that culture is long gone and I hope one day people do realise that culture died a long time ago.

[Surfer01]

Last year and I was surprised.

[fuzzybobble]

If you're off for more than 7 days sick in 12 months you get a written warning? That may be so in the public sector. The company I work for, you get a verbal warning after 2 days and written after the third. If managed 7 in under a year you'd be getting a P45 unless you produced a sick note and also signed a form giving the company permission to consult your doctor about your illness. (somehow I think they may be treading on dodgy ground here, but as we all know from the DCA scumbags, they rely on peoples ignorance of the law and their rights to get away with it.) Also if you're absent the day before or after a public holiday they require a doctors note, also if you're absent on the day of a major sporting event. I have never been able to get my doctor to write me a sick note. Even when I worked for Royal Mail doing a 14 mile round on a push bike in a rural area and cracked my big toe on a UPVC all around doorframe. I still didn't get a sicknote and had to spend the next 3 weeks limping around delivering mail.

 

Give me a nice cushy public sector job anytime. The ones who moan about how tough it is, have probably never had to do a real job and pay into a pension scheme that's now worth 20% less than if you had put the money under the mattress. I'm not holding out much hope for the 10 years of Royal Mail pension contributions I made either, considering they have a shortfall of over £2 billion to date.

[Mungypup]

If you're off for more than 7 days sick in 12 months you get a written warning? That may be so in the public sector. The company I work for, you get a verbal warning after 2 days and written after the third. If managed 7 in under a year you'd be getting a P45 unless you produced a sick note and also signed a form giving the company permission to consult your doctor about your illness. (somehow I think they may be treading on dodgy ground here, but as we all know from the DCA scumbags, they rely on peoples ignorance of the law and their rights to get away with it.) Also if you're absent the day before or after a public holiday they require a doctors note, also if you're absent on the day of a major sporting event. I have never been able to get my doctor to write me a sick note. Even when I worked for Royal Mail doing a 14 mile round on a push bike in a rural area and cracked my big toe on a UPVC all around doorframe. I still didn't get a sicknote and had to spend the next 3 weeks limping around delivering mail.

 

Give me a nice cushy public sector job anytime. The ones who moan about how tough it is, have probably never had to do a real job and pay into a pension scheme that's now worth 20% less than if you had put the money under the mattress. I'm not holding out much hope for the 10 years of Royal Mail pension contributions I made either, considering they have a shortfall of over £2 billion to date.

 

I give up. You are entitled to your opinion as am I. I have worked both public and private sector and the point I was trying to make is that they both suffer. BOTH. Life isn't easy for many these days. If people want to have this them and us idea, more fool them.

 

There are hard jobs everywhere. There are also companies that are an easy ride too. It works both ways on both sides of the coin. At least when people slag 'them' off I know I am no longer one of 'them' and no longer included in the sterotype. PHEW!!!! Peace and love to ALL

 

P.S give me a nice cushy public sector job as in ten years I didn't see one. Hell, just give me a nice cushy job.

[fuzzybobble]

I wasn't having a go at anyone MP. It's the same both sides of the public and private sector, unless you're one of the 10% privilidged few.

 

The only ones who lose out are the few still left to try and work for a living in the UK. I don't blame the benefit scroungers and the peeps with glass backs who milk the system. For the rest of us, it's rapidly beginning to look like a good move up the career ladder.

[Mungypup]

I wasn't having a go at anyone MP. It's the same both sides of the public and private sector, unless you're one of the 10% privilidged few.

 

The only ones who lose out are the few still left to try and work for a living in the UK. I don't blame the benefit scroungers and the peeps with glass backs who milk the system. For the rest of us, it's rapidly beginning to look like a good move up the career ladder.

 

That's what I was trying to say. I didn't mean to cause offence, but people don't know the stress and pressure I and my colleagues were under. It's no different wherever you work, everyone is trying to make cuts, everone has to, all workers are suffering and feeling the strain. That's all i was trying to say.

 

*holds paw out to shake*

[fuzzybobble]

 

*holds paw out to shake*

 

*holds out hand to shake n hopes his icing doesn't get licked.*

[Mungypup]

Yum (oops) :D

[Surfer01]

I understand MP's point of view and as always there are exceptions especially when yolu have collegues going off sick and you have to cover for them. I was quite glad when my temp contract ended as I felt very uncomforrtable sitting in an office collecting pay whne ther was no work around. I was virtually begging for work but there was none. Very boring.

What really gave me the needle is the way they have self congratulatory parties for doing their job. One was on a working day out to a theme park for the whole day and the other was for a dinner out at a famous golf club near Birmingham. On both occasions a bus was used to take them to their destinations. Most staff then only arrived at work between 10am and 12pm. All paid for by the taxpayer just for doing their job and meeting targets.

As FB said "Give me a Public Sector job" but the only thing will it be boring with no work to do or will have work available every day? I hate being bored.

In the private sector we got an annual bonus which was about half a month's pay. If you did not make targets, life was made very unpleasant and could result in the sack. We used to have a Xmas dinner but you had to fidn your own way there and buy all your own drinks!

[Mungypup]

We never had any 'do's' except Xmas do's, and that was paid for fully by ourselves, transport, food, drinks, entertainment etc as you would expect from government staff. We got a Xmas bonus of a flexi credit of 3 hours 42 minutes and that was the only bonus we got except for once when they ran a scheme one year when we had to hit certain targets to get a pay out, which wasn't much, and they only did it the one year. I was defo in the wrong department lol.

[Fred Bassett]

I find that entire article a bit hard to believe. I might be naive, but surely no place is like that nowadays. I can believe bits of it, maybe all of it to an extent, but not all put together in one workplace and in the experience of one person. If it is, then it is almost certainly the exception rather than the rule.

 

I worked in the Public sector and it was never like that, although I wouldn't say that I was ever really pushed. I now work in the private sector and can say without a doubt that things have been difficult for the last several years with no let up in sight, but the company I work for still carries a fair bit of slack in certain areas. There are no current plans for large-scale redundancies simply because it is too costly. Instead of that, when people leave, they are not being replaced and recently there have been quite a few leavers, so everyone else is having to do extra work.

 

I personally would not question the dedication and work ethic of those employed in the public sector, but I would question some of the jobs that are posted by local councils and wonder if those jobs are really necessary. I'm sure we have all read stories of people being paid to do thoroughly useless and unnecessary jobs and in my opinion, those are what should be the targets for cuts.

[Surfer01]

We never had any 'do's' except Xmas do's, and that was paid for fully by ourselves, transport, food, drinks, entertainment etc as you would expect from government staff. We got a Xmas bonus of a flexi credit of 3 hours 42 minutes and that was the only bonus we got except for once when they ran a scheme one year when we had to hit certain targets to get a pay out, which wasn't much, and they only did it the one year. I was defo in the wrong department lol.

 

I can promise you that I am not making this up. It seems that one public sector deaprtment can differ vastly from another. I suppose it depends who is in charge.

[tracybeaker]

Morning Peeps, I just thought i's throw my two pence worth in this.

 

I also work for JCP formally BA for over ten years, for 7 of those years I ran a very busy inner city reception desk with 7 Staff. the sick culture has WELL gone as its true to say that there is now a real fear of people losing their jobs over their sick records.

 

i was given a formal warning as i refused to give a member of my team a warning when she had been on sick for 2wks as i interpreted the policy and felt that the illness could be classed as "a one-off". Management and HR disagreed with me implemented the warning and I also got my warning - I took this on the chin as I felt I needed to stick up for my staff and truly believed it was a pile of old tosh!!

 

well..........I'm in a backslide period now for 2yrs when low and behold I suffer a Brain Haemorrage (still can't bl**dy spell it lol) well I'm off for 3mths - seriously ill - had to learn to walk again and to read again - I went back to work Part time even though the doctor said i should be off for 6mths really - i felt i needed to get back on the horse as it were.... well my lovely bosses and the tossers at HR decide that I should be given a written warning - I got the Union involved but to no avail the warning stood - right the way through the grievance procedure - that is what the JCP department is like and I'm sorry I don't care what your opinion is on the Public Sector everyone should be protected from this happening.

 

Sometimes illness hits you when you least expect it and the very least we all should have is some form of protection from employers whether public or private who see this as a way to exploit you out of your job.

 

Rant over lol

 

Have a lovely day everyone

[woody1066]

Both myself and Mr's Woody work in the public sector. I work with the unemployed for a local authority (lots of job security there). I teach classes all week for the same rate of pay that a recepionist gets. If I were to do an

equvillent job in the private sector then I would expect to be paid at least half again of what I get in the public sector.

 

Mrs Woody is a civil servant who allways works at least 60 hours per week. If she was to equate her job to the private sector then she would be on probably something like a company solicitor. I can assure you that she does not get paid even close to that.

Edited June 28, 2010 by woody1066

[Fred Bassett]

Morning Peeps, I just thought i's throw my two pence worth in this.

 

I also work for JCP formally BA for over ten years, for 7 of those years I ran a very busy inner city reception desk with 7 Staff. the sick culture has WELL gone as its true to say that there is now a real fear of people losing their jobs over their sick records.

 

i was given a formal warning as i refused to give a member of my team a warning when she had been on sick for 2wks as i interpreted the policy and felt that the illness could be classed as "a one-off". Management and HR disagreed with me implemented the warning and I also got my warning - I took this on the chin as I felt I needed to stick up for my staff and truly believed it was a pile of old tosh!!

 

well..........I'm in a backslide period now for 2yrs when low and behold I suffer a Brain Haemorrage (still can't bl**dy spell it lol) well I'm off for 3mths - seriously ill - had to learn to walk again and to read again - I went back to work Part time even though the doctor said i should be off for 6mths really - i felt i needed to get back on the horse as it were.... well my lovely bosses and the tossers at HR decide that I should be given a written warning - I got the Union involved but to no avail the warning stood - right the way through the grievance procedure - that is what the JCP department is like and I'm sorry I don't care what your opinion is on the Public Sector everyone should be protected from this happening.

 

Sometimes illness hits you when you least expect it and the very least we all should have is some form of protection from employers whether public or private who see this as a way to exploit you out of your job.

 

Rant over lol

 

Have a lovely day everyone

 

I'll say this for the company I work for - they are extremely good at dealing with people who have been ill or been off work for other, usually personal reasons. Staff are guided back to work and nearly always start part-time, say a few hours a day, until such time as they are ready to resume full working hours. People are not penalised for this which is good. The public sector outfit that I worked for was also very good in this regard, but that was a long time ago and things may have changed.

[Fred Bassett]

Both myself and Mr's Woody work in the public sector. I work with the unemployed for a local authority (lots of job security there). I teach classes all week for the same rate of pay that a recepionist gets. If I were to do an

equvillent job in the private sector then I would expect to be paid at least half again of what I get in the public sector.

 

Mrs Woody is a civil servant who allways works at least 60 hours per week. If she was to equate her job to the private sector then she would be on probably something like a company solicitor. I can assure you that she does not get paid even close to that.

 

Woody, as a matter of interest, have you and Mrs Woody ever thought of changing jobs and moving into the private sector?

[woody1066]

I have done my stint in the private sector. But sometimes there is more to a job than the money you make while doing it. It can be rewarding and equally frustrating doing my job. Mrs Woody has been a civil servant since she left school and as a result has built up a reasonable pension, although she would welcome redundancy or early retirement

[Fred Bassett]

I have done my stint in the private sector. But sometimes there is more to a job than the money you make while doing it. It can be rewarding and equally frustrating doing my job. Mrs Woody has been a civil servant since she left school and as a result has built up a reasonable pension, although she would welcome redundancy or early retirement

 

I understand. I've never pushed myself in the job I'm currently in simply because I enjoy it and I'm a square peg in a square hole, so I do it well. I suppose I'm lucky in that I enjoy going to work but at the end of the day, I enjoy going home. Not many people can say that.