morris v halifax

[neilbass]

OK I won't make any jokes or sarcastic comments :

 

The defence :

 

1. The Defendant is a Bank. The claimant has a current account .................... .

 

2. The Claimant appears to be claiming for bank charges applied to the current account in the last six years.

 

3. The Claimant has provided particulars stating that her claim relates to bank charges incurred on his Current Account, but the particulars fail to specify how much the Claimant is claiming in respect of actual charges. However, these charges were debited to the Current Account in accordance with with the terms and conditions of the Current Account, which the claimant agreed to accept and by which he is bound [goes on to state all circumstances under which they are allowed to debit charges].

 

4. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Defendant has, without admission of liability refunded £1304.20 to the Current Account. This sum represents all the bank charges that the Claimant has incurred in the 6 years prior to the issue of proceedings, being £1004, together with interest of £180.20, and £120.00 in respect of the Court fee.

 

5. The remainder of the claim, £166.11 appears also to relate bank charges incurred, but the Claimant has failed to provide particulars of how this figure has been arrived at, and the figure is not supported by the Claimants account details.

 

6. On the basis of the matters pleaded above, the Defendant denies that it is liable to the Claimant for the sum of £166.11 in respect of the balance of his claim or for any other sum.

 

 

[aardvark the lecturer]

i. The defendant is an arse.....the claimant wil rise victorious from the ashes of ......

 

ahem. sorry got carried away.

 

Nothing to worry about there then Neilbass, they seem to dispute that you ever paid interest on the portion of your balence purtaining to default charges.

 

Yeah right, sell that to a judge....

[aardvark the lecturer]

OK I won't make any jokes or sarcastic comments :

 

sorry, I guess I just don't have the same self control as you do neilbass.

[neilbass]

thought I'd leave it to other people!

[aardvark the lecturer]

If only we could have a 'scales of justice' icon to click on for sarcasm, then i'd truly be a rich man.....

[neilbass]

Letter gone off to HBOS legal, copied to Court Manager, Wigan County Court.

 

Explaining very carefully exactly what the difference between the amount claimed and amount paid represents - basically its the debited overdraft interest, as detailed clearly on the Schedule of Charges they have had copies of several times now, and as supported clearly by the copy bank statements they kindly provided.

 

"In the interests of resolving this matter without either party incurring further court costs etc, and without unnecessarily taking up the court’s time, we would like to take the opportunity to make the following comments and proposal regarding the current situation.

 

[figures detailed here re the source of the outstanding amounts].

 

In the spirit of reconciliation, and in order to resolve this matter at the earliest opportunity, we will accept in full and final settlement of this claim the further sum of £160.53.

 

[this is the unpaid debited overdraft interest plus daily s69 interest to the date of the previous payment]

 

We trust this letter will clarify any previous misunderstanding or misinterpretation by Halifax plc regarding our claim.

 

We look forward to receiving your favourable response to this letter, in order that we can inform the court that an amicable settlement has been reached. Please do not hesitate to contact us as above, should you require any further clarification or explanation.

 

Yours faithfully"

 

 

I've also included copies of Schedule of Charges and Particulars of Claim.

 

Don't think I can do any more really? If they still want to go to court we'll see them there.

[crashbandicoot]

Nice one Neil....can't do anymore than poke them in the eye next...

[aardvark the lecturer]

I agree,

 

your letter puts it across very clearly and will certainly stand you in excellent stead should they choose to go to court.

[neilbass]

and of course I'm posting back the AQ to the court also

[WendyN]

Hi Neilbass,

 

looks like we have the same problem - Halifax have agreed to pay the penalties back, and nominal 8% interest, but not the compound interest as per the advanced spreadsheet, and the 8% interest on that. We have 7 days to reply. We will be accepting the amount in part payment of the total, sending copies of our advanced spreadsheet with all the calculations on, carrying on with the court claim, and hoping for the best.

 

Any advice gratefully accepted!

 

WendyN

[neilbass]

Hi WendyN - hope you're not in the same situation as us, as it does now seem to be dragging it all out.

I find it so frustrating as we've done nothing different to all the claims that have been paid out in full recently (and there's loads of them!).

 

The main part of their defence against the debited overdraft interest (as its this that they wont agree to) is that it is not supported by our Particulars of Claim, or by our Account statements.

Both of these points we can, and have, shown to be accurate - with both our Schedule of Charges and the original statements showing the interest being debited.

 

We are still awaiting a response.

 

My only advice is stick to your guns, as you say send them a very clear statement of your calculations, and continue with your claim.

Have they submitted a defence yet? Where are you up to in relation to the 28 days response time (assuming they've filed Acknowledgment of Service?).

 

And good luck!

[WendyN]

Hello,

 

they have told MCOL that they will defend, but I think that's so that they can get the 28 days. Claim date was 23/10/06, so we have 13 days left, and 2 days left of their ultimatum. We will be accepting the money as a partial settlement today I think. We're sending the schedule of costs again, although they've had it before... :o)

[neilbass]

I told them we would accept as partial, and explained then what the difference was. Next thing we had was the money in the account, and a letter saying thank you for accepting in full and final settlement!

 

Having the bulk of the money is wonderful of course - would just like it over with though.

[WendyN]

Well, good luck arguing for the rest with them...! Keep us all posted!

[neilbass]

Heard nothing since going down to court to submit our AQ on the 13th. Included a covering letter saying 'despite our best attempts to resolve the matter...etc... Halifax haven't replied to our letters re settlement....".

Deadline for AQ submission for us and Halifax was the 15th - anyone know what happens next?

 

Do we get a copy of their AQ?

[aardvark the lecturer]

I believe so, and then further instruction from the court as to whether a pre-trial hearing is necessary, or a court date.

 

Just noticed, your court is Wigan?

 

Mine is Leigh! Small world!

 

Hang in there....

[neilbass]

Definitely small world - my dad's from Leigh.

 

Sat at work in Wigan as I type.....:o

[aardvark the lecturer]

Have you had their AQ copy yet?

[neilbass]

Heard nothing - hand delivered ours on the 13th, deadline for return was the 15th.

Think I might nip down at lunchtime and see if they can tell me anything - were very helpful when I took the AQ in.

 

If HBOS haven't returned it do you know what happens? They've gone very quiet on me - havent replied to the last 3 or 4 letters I've sent.

[aardvark the lecturer]

I would expect that it works the same as not acknowledging in time and that you can file for judgement. I believe that you can ring and ask for an extension though......

 

Have you kept up to date with the Jonni2bad thread and case?

The implications for accepting partial settlement deserve some thought?

[neilbass]

Yes been reading it - and I agree it does seem that once they've paid over the partial settlement they may then be prepared to go all the way over the remainder. I've also noticed other cases around the boards recently that make me think all the banks are having second thoughts about settling claims quickly. Barclays certainly seem very happy to take people all the way - over small amounts too. So yes - it may be worth people considering not accepting partial offers, especially as in Jonni2bads situation where there are also defaults (luckily we're not in that situation though).

 

In our case, by them crediting our account with the bulk of the claim, our account is no longer in the red and therefore incurring no more overdraft interest - which is a massive relief. And personally, I get even more relief that when we get paid our balance doesnt still have a minus in front of it anymore.

 

They do still seem to be just arguing over the numbers - and refusing to see that when they sent out the settlement letter they made a mistake.

Hopefully the judge will see that - after all I've set it out in letters so clearly that a child could see it.

[jonni2bad]

Have you kept up to date with the Jonni2bad thread and case?

The implications for accepting partial settlement deserve some thought?

 

Just to clarify, as the reply above also does, that accepting partial settlements if your claim is ONLY for a refund of charges is not a problem, and in fact you should certainly attempt to obtain any funds you can as part of the claim process.

 

It MAY be a problem where there are separate issues (defaults or CCJs for instance) but this is possibly based on the issue of the Judge you face on the day..... In other words, better to be safe than sorry, you just never know what one you'll get.

[WendyN]

Hello all,

 

I understand that many of you have had the same problems as us - Halifax have refunded the charges and the 8% on the charges, but submitted a defence for the compound interest. Although, the defence seems to be that they 'don't understand' how we have calculated the figures. Glad we've got competent, numerate people working in our bank, at any rate... :o/

 

Anyway! So we need to respond to Halifax' so called defence, so this is our letter, for your perusal - does this sound OK?

 

Thanks

 

WendyN

 

"Dear Sir / Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated 23/10/06. In the interests of resolving this matter without either party incurring further court costs etc, and without unnecessarily taking up the court’s time, I would like to take the opportunity to make the following comments and proposal regarding the current situation.

Halifax Plc state that they do not understand how the figures I have provided have been calculated. I have provided a schedule of charges to them on a number of occasions, and attach another copy to this letter. As stated on this schedule, I have been charged £---.-- in penalty charges in the last 6 years. These sums can be supported by the copy bank statements kindly provided by Halifax Plc. The removal of these charges from my account has cost me £---.-- in compound interest over the last 6 years, as shown on the schedule. I have then added 8% in statutory interest to these amounts. I am claiming this s69 interest only because Halifax Plc have forced me to raise a court claim by refusing to refund my charges earlier in the process.

Halifax Plc also state that they have paid me £---.-- to settle this claim. In actual fact, they made this offer in their letter dated --/--/--; which I only accepted as partial settlement of my claim in my letter dated --/--/--. Despite this, Halifax Plc paid this amount into my account on --/--/--.

In the spirit of reconciliation, and in order to resolve this matter at the earliest opportunity, I am happy to accept in full and final settlement of this claim the further sum of £---.--. This sum comprises the unpaid overdraft interest, plus the daily S69 interest to the date of the previous payment.

We trust this letter will clarify any previous misunderstanding or misinterpretation by Halifax plc regarding our claim.

We look forward to receiving your favourable response to this letter, in order that we can inform the court that an amicable settlement has been reached. Please do not hesitate to contact us as above, should you require any further clarification or explanation.

Yours faithfully"

[neilbass]

Hi WendyN

 

Sounds very good to me - you are in exactly the same situation as us. I sent similar to them after we received their defence.

However I have had no response from the Halifax to our last 4 or 5 letters.

The only thing they have done is to submit their defence.

We are still awaiting a court date, having submitted our Allocation Questionnaire per the courts schedule.

 

Good luck!!

[aardvark the lecturer]

How long have they got to get their AQ in to the courts?

 

Is it judgement time yet?