morris v halifax

[crashbandicoot]

You could take the money out and put it away for safekeeping thereby technically they can't take back what's not in there. Also, your letter clearly states you'll accept it as partial payment, which you are, and so it's your money to what you please with now. Another case of just sit tight and see what happens. When and if Halifax realise that the claim is still unsettled subject to the remaining balance, they should cough up pretty soon, I'd imagine

[aardvark the lecturer]

3. They still have a couple of weeks to file their defence.

In their offer letter of 29/9 they said "the Halifax does not consider that you are entitled to the further £166.11 you are claiming. Unless you can provide evidence of this further loss the Halifax will file a defence in respect of this part of your claim"

 

The evidence is surely in the statements that you have got!!!!

 

This is a stupid question and I'm sure you have asked yourself it and checked countless times.....

Has the interest (not the 8%, the interest based on standard rates against charges) definately been worked out correctly?

I know when I looked at the advanced spreadsheet it blew my mind and I couldn't figure out how to calculate it at all! Everytime I reasd a post about it it becomes more confusing and the advice I have seen says it rarely amounts to much.

 

Try the spreadsheet available to download in Mindzai's signature via THIS post. It is designed to calculate contractual interest, but has an easier to understand page to work out this type is interest charge as well.

 

If the two methods both show a comparative figure then you can be far more certain that your calculations are accurate and that in fact, the bank have just got their head up their own ****s.

[neilbass]

Hi Aardvark - you're right I've checked all my figures that many times I now nearly know them off by heart!

 

Thanks for the link to the different interest calculator. It is better than the one I used from the templates library in a couple of ways (sorry whoever put that one together) - it includes very clear totals and subtotals at the top, it calculates your daily rate for s69 8% interest - and of course it does contractual interest too (we didnt include this as it wasnt being done when we started!).

 

As for the numbers - it came out the same to within 50p or so on both the calculated overdraft interest and the s69 8% interest calculations.

 

I've also now reviewed the numbers and dates I input for 'interest deducted' which I took from the statements (all OK),

and also checked the logic of what we are saying.

 

It seems sensible that at the beginning of the 6 years, hardly any of the overdraft interest we were charged shows as being due to the charges (as you'd expect).

 

And likewise that by the end of the 6 years, with a cumulative charges total of over £1000 (and always being up to or slightly over our £1000 overdraft limit every month), that all (or virtually all) of the overdraft interest charged each month was due to the charges taken.

 

 

So - letter gone to the Court re the partial payment, copied to Halifax.

 

And can I just say :

 

YES!!!!!!!!! (we've got back nearly all our claim and sod it, we're celebrating this weekend!!!)

 

THE HALIFAX MAY BE STOPPING US SAYING 'SETTLED IN FULL' AND THE BATTLE MAY GO ON - BUT THEY ARE NOT STOPPING US ENJOYING THE VICTORY!!

 

THIS SITE IS FANTASTIC AND IT SHOULD BE SHOUTED FROM THE ROOFTOPS THAT THIS CAN BE DONE.

 

(SURVEY AND DONATION IN DUE COURSE!)

 

That feels better - was feeling left out!! :D

[neilbass]

Letter this morning thanking us 'for accepting our previous offer in full and final settlement of your complaint'. and confirming they've paid it to us.

 

Excuse me? I obviously missed this part of the saga!!

 

What do they not bloody understand about the phrase 'in partial settlement'????

 

We are dealing with seriously impaired intelligence here. Letter signed by another new name to me - will just forward a copy of my letter to the court to her as well.

 

Get your act together Halifax!!! Pay us the money you owe or come to court.

[Michael Browne]

Maybe they thought it was an impartial settlement!!!!!

[crashbandicoot]

I'd send them a quick letter, with a copy of this letter of theirs and a copy of the letter you sent as partial acceptance, to remind them that you will not advise the courts that the claim is settled, until you receive the balance.

[neilbass]

Maybe Michael!

 

Not sure if its pure incompetence or a deliberate attempt to confuse us!

 

Letter done Crash - with copies ofthe 2 previous ones too.

 

We'll get there - knew it was weird they'd paid out a partial amount!

[HaleeFactsVictim]

Hiya everyone,

 

I have gotten a letter from halifax suggesting £401.00 how rude. They owe me close to £3000.00 so I sent off the rejection of offer letter and then I started getting post about them cancelling my card and can I return their cheque book and all that.

 

I called them twice and told them that they have been charging me for a standing order that I had tried to cancel like 7 weeks ago and they have been still charging me for lack of funds and all that.

 

I have stopped my salary from going thru halifax and wisely opened a new account with another bank thank GOD, because now I can safely monitor how my direct debits are being paid out. Halifax Customer Relations Officer apologised but its no good to me.

 

They have also threatned me with legal action and Bailiffs and paying for all costs.

 

I have now gone online and downloaded the N1 Claim form and the Xcel Sheet for charges but I am at a loss now as to how to send in the claim? What do I do now? I remember when I first joined I read about the process to follow but cant find the thread now.

 

Help:o

[neilbass]

HaleeFacts - if you check out the FAQ's section at the top of the board, there is a thread called Step by Step Instructions. This tells you most things you need to know and everything else can be picked up from all the threads that are on here.

 

The successes section is also invaluable - as you can see claims from start to finish on there.

 

Good luck getting your money back!

 

(PS the moderators like you to start your own thread, then you can update it as you go along)

[neilbass]

Tomorrow was the deadline for submission of their defence. Sometime over the weekend they have filed a defence according to MCOL - not seen the wording of this yet but assuming it will be in the post tomorrow.

MCOL now says we'll receive a court date etc from our local court in due course.

This is basically now only over £180 s69 interest.

 

The Halifax amaze me. Can someone answer a couple of questions please?

 

I've written to the court and copied to Halifax re the partial payment. MCOL now states that 'the defendant disputes your entire claim'.

 

As they are opposing the entire claim, can they now take the money back we've already received?

 

If this goes to court, will we be arguing about the whole 'application of charges' per the basic court bundle, or simply arguing over the unpaid 8% statutory interest?

 

If anyone has been in this situation with the Halifax can you please post or PM me with any advice? I really didnt expect it to go this far :(

[Michael Browne]

As they are opposing the entire claim, can they now take the money back we've already received?

Well, I suppose they could, but would think that it's very unlikely. How would they explain that to the judge?

 

If this goes to court, will we be arguing about the whole 'application of charges' per the basic court bundle, or simply arguing over the unpaid 8% statutory interest?

Presumably it depends on what their defence says, but I can't imagine they will enter a defence that argues only the 8%.

 

Seems to me they boxed themselves into a corner. The only way out is to settle.

[neilbass]

Fingers crossed yes - will post the wording of the defence when received.

[aardvark the lecturer]

I can't wait to read it!

 

I wonder if this argument is about not paying you 8% because they haven't actually been ruled against, simply chosen to settle? That could explain why they are saying they dispute your entire claim?

 

I saw a post somewhere, may have been Jonni2bad, about this and someone at the courts had indicated the 8% should apply even in settlements so I can't see this getting them far.

 

They haven't tried this with any other claims i've read about so I wonder if they're experimenting with differrent approaches, looking for a loophole?

 

I really cannot see them getting away with it though neilbass so hang in there...

[crashbandicoot]

I agree Neil, I think they are just trying different ways to see if people will crack under pressure. Stick to it - you're not in the wrong, they are. Eventually they'll have to cough up. I can't see them explaining to the judge 'oh we decided to pay the claim but disputed the 8%, and now we've changed our mind and dispute the whole lot.'

 

Keep on at it

[neilbass]

MCOL confirmed by email that its transferred to our local court - Copy of their defence and AQ's should be with us by the end of the week.

 

Why are they doing this when they are paying out so many other claims?

 

Will they really go to court over £180 (which is all thats now remaining outstanding?).

 

Read somewhere recently that the site recommends accepting offers around 90% of claim value - is this true? Are we pushing it by continuing?

 

Most importantly is there any risk (especially if it actually goes to court) of us being ruled against and having to repay the money already received?

[crashbandicoot]

Neil try not to worry, just for your info, Barclaycard still haven't paid up £160 odd for my claim with them, and it's past AQ stage, so it's all a bit random with all the banks at the mo. It may be worth PM'ing one of the mods if you want to discuss your case specifically. They may be able to advise you better at this stage as they'll no doubt know of others who may be in a similar situation

[aardvark the lecturer]

Copy of their defence and AQ's should be with us by the end of the week.

Probably beaten or closely followed by the £180

Why are they doing this when they are paying out so many other claims?

Because they're the bank that give you extra ...... [insert joke here]

Will they really go to court over £180 (which is all thats now remaining outstanding?).

I honestly doubt it, it just makes a mockery of their whole - 'we've settled in full only because it could cost us money' letters doesn't it!

Read somewhere recently that the site recommends accepting offers around 90% of claim value - is this true? Are we pushing it by continuing?

No ,IMO.

Most importantly is there any risk (especially if it actually goes to court) of us being ruled against and having to repay the money already received?

They've paid it to you, and you have accepted that aspect of the claim. I don't see how they could. You could of course consider moving it elsewhere but that's a false security, we all know they take out money when it's not there and then charge us for it. I'd have to conceed that I'm no expert on the legalities of them removing it though, but really don't think so.

 

Stick with it Neilbass, if they were to actually go to court to defend this their would be loads of well informed people on this site who would help. I'm sure that if it looked like they actually were going to defend theat you could PM a mod or maybe BankFodder for guidance, but the're still just playing games yet and haven't gone anywhere near the point of no return.

 

ATL

[crashbandicoot]

Well said Aardvark

[neilbass]

Thanks both of you. Bookworms court bundle is going to be my bedtime reading over the next few days all the same!!

 

On the AQ do I answer each point of their defence? Is there space to do that?

[crashbandicoot]

Neil I didn't put anything on the AQ except 'Standard Disclosure' in the 'Other Info' bit, as Zoo suggested. I asked about this one and was told we don't have to respond to their points at this stage...there will be ample time to do this later should the need arise

[aardvark the lecturer]

I'd have to admit to not having completed one (yet, but there's plenty of time for that!).

 

Do you know yet if you're recieving the N149 or N150 AQ?

[neilbass]

Assuming N149 as our whole claim including costs was less than £1500.

I've had a read through Jonni2bads guide to AQs in the templates library, so hopefully should be OK.

Hopefully something in the post today when I get home from work, then we can see how good their defence is looking!

[aardvark the lecturer]

That should make interesting reading!

[neilbass]

OK my wife just rang to say its arrived.

 

All things we've heard before re we signed a contract to abide by their terms blah blah blah.

That the Particulars of Claim are only summary, and do not reflect the charges as levied on our account.

They ackowledge that they've paid us a sum for the charges, 'interest' and court fees.

But then say that the remaining amount appears to relate to further charges, but these are not supported by the details of our account.

 

I am not shouting and swearing over this (done all that before!!) but what it all seems to come down to is the incompetence in their original reading of our particulars of claim, in conjunction with the schedule of charges sent to them.

 

As discussed with them and on here a good few weeks ago (and detailed to them in so many letters I could recite it off by heart) :

 

We claimed £1014 in charges.

£156.11 in debited overdraft interest.

£180.20 in s69 8% interest to date of claim (plus 26p a day thereafter)

£120 costs.

 

They paid us :

£1004.00 in charges.

£180.20 - in their words 'for approximate overdraft interest charged to your account in respect of charges levied, as calculated by Halifax plc'

£120 costs.

 

So the amount outstanding is because they used the s69 interest figure as overdraft interest, thereby missing off the £156.11 (and knocked off £10 for 2 £5 charges).

Also they've ignored the daily interest of 26 per day from the date of claim to the date they paid us the charges back.

 

I have now explained this on the phone to them over and over again, and have written it in letters in words short enough to be understood by a 2 year old.

 

Do we really have to go to court and waste a judges (and our) time to explain it all again?

 

I think I am going to try one last letter direct to the solicitor named on the defence, and also one last phone call also to him to try to resolve this before court.

 

Tempted to just let it go to court though then they can waste a few thousand in costs on it.

 

I will post some quotes from the defence when I get home - especially interested to see how they have worded why they have refunded the money they have - though I'm sure there's no admission of guilt in there!

 

How can they defend the whole claim, but state in their defence that they've refunded most of it???

 

Love 'em!

[aardvark the lecturer]

That's gotta be a relief Neilbass,

 

i was nearly worried they may have had some kind of, you know - genuine reason - for not refunding the interest.

 

You can now take comfort in being able to read how much of a cock-up they've made!

 

HEY, HALIFAX.

 

 

 

[no reply]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[still no reply]

 

I thought they read this forum? but I can't see how that's possible if they are missing this little gem!

 

 

Muppets, go get-em Neilbass!