Welcome car finance - HP or not ?

[jj69]

I have a car bought from an independant garage but with a HP loan from Welcome back in 2008.On the agreement it says HP loan.

Due to not being able to afford payments they reconsolidated loan (yes a Welcome special now I have found out) beginning of 2009.

Checked my Experian/Equifax May this year and both have this registered as HP agreement paid off in 2008 but not the new aggreement.

I am looking at selling the car but does this mean I can sell as the car is mine and not legally Welcome's as it is a loan but not HP ?

 

I asked my retard manager at my local brance and he spouted that if I sold the car it would need to be the same amount as the outstanding finance which is £4k.

Strangely though he said the garage may tell me to VT the car in which case I could do this but it would lead to more costs etc etc and would not be in my interest.I did not even mention VT or that I wanted to do that but he has got me thinking it may be worth looking at this avenue.

 

So can I sell the car as it is not on the equifax/experian register ?

[Dotty50]

Hi jj

 

Can you post a copy of your agreement on here without the personal bits?

 

I am not familiar with Welcome but there will be many on here who are.

 

If it is HP, whether it is on your CRA is irrelevant but the car may/should be registered at HPI with Welcomes interest, if you sell it without settling the debt, you will have problems, also any prospective purchaser as you would not have title to sell it on.

 

If it is a loan, then different rules (should) apply and the car (should) be yours to dispose of as you wish.

 

As far as VT is concerned, again it depends on whether it is HP or a loan.

 

HTH

Edited June 25, 2010 by Dotty50

[jj69]

Hi jj

 

Can you post a copy of your agreement on here without the personal bits?

 

I am not familiar with Welcome but there will be many on here who are.

 

If it is HP, whether it is on your CRA is irrelevant but the car may/should be registered at HPI with Welcomes interest, if you sell it without settling the debt, you will have problems, also any prospective purchaser as you would not have title to sell it on.

 

If it is a loan, then different rules (should) apply and the car (should) be yours to dispose of as you wish.

 

 

Hi Dotty..thanks for the advice..

I thought about HPI hence my question.I have read before that although Welcome states HP on the agreement they do not register it as such on the CRA and people have sold their cars on as legally it belongs to them and not Welcome..

[beyondhope]

does the agreement have

 

Hire Purchase Agreement regulated by Consumer Credit Act

 

on the top?

[Dotty50]

Black Horse do a similar thing with their loan agreements, stating in the T & C's that if the car is sold the account must be settled. But it doesn't.

 

You could always do an HPI enquiry yourself, not sure what the cost is nowadays. If it is registered to Welcome, that would indicate an HP agreement, in which case you would not have title to the vehicle to sell it on IMO.

 

Welcome should also offer a reduced settlement figure, depending on how long the agreement has to run but again, this depends on the type of agreement so it would help if you can post it on here for opinions.

 

If you are intending the sell the car, wouldn't it be better to pay the proceeds into the account anyway, in order to reduce your liability?

[jj69]

does the agreement have

 

Hire Purchase Agreement regulated by Consumer Credit Act

 

on the top?

 

 

Will need to check my agreement but I belive it does..

[jj69]

Black Horse do a similar thing with their loan agreements, stating in the T & C's that if the car is sold the account must be settled. But it doesn't.

 

You could always do an HPI enquiry yourself, not sure what the cost is nowadays. If it is registered to Welcome, that would indicate an HP agreement, in which case you would not have title to the vehicle to sell it on IMO.

 

Welcome should also offer a reduced settlement figure, depending on how long the agreement has to run but again, this depends on the type of agreement so it would help if you can post it on here for opinions.

 

If you are intending the sell the car, wouldn't it be better to pay the proceeds into the account anyway, in order to reduce your liability?

 

 

Yep thats the idea..I have already been offered a reduced amount by Welcome but cant afford it just yet although some PPI refunds soon may fix this..

Got my sums wrong outstanding to pay is £6k but car is worth about £3k..

I could VT but know I would not get £3k if left in Welcomes hands..

[beyondhope]

Will need to check my agreement but I belive it does..

 

 

if possible can you put the agreement on here with all personal details relating to u and car blanked out.....i would say 99.9% sure if it has that statement at the top it is a HP agreement and therefore you shouldnt sell the car

[Dotty50]

Well if it is HP, you can VT it and you would only be liable for half the total purchase price. It should state this figure on the document and it will refer to halves and thirds somewhere.

 

However, although I am not familiar with Welcome, I am pretty sure I have seen posts on here that intimate that they do not always get the figures right on their documents, so therein lies another problem.

 

Without seeing the agreement, any comments are blind really!

[beyondhope]

also did you say you refinanced it? then the top of the newest agreement should say

 

Agreement modifying a Hire Purchase Agreement regulated by CCA

[beyondhope]

Well if it is HP, you can VT it and you would only be liable for half the total purchase price. It should state this figure on the document and it will refer to halves and thirds somewhere.

 

However, although I am not familiar with Welcome, I am pretty sure I have seen posts on here that intimate that they do not always get the figures right on their documents, so therein lies another problem.

 

Without seeing the agreement, any comments are blind really!

 

 

Unfortunately for me ive had plenty to do with Welcome and everything you say is correct Dotty im in the process of a claim against them for adding over 3k onto the amount payable for no reason other than 'human error'

 

Defo need to see the agreement!

[jj69]

Unfortunately for me ive had plenty to do with Welcome and everything you say is correct Dotty im in the process of a claim against them for adding over 3k onto the amount payable for no reason other than 'human error'

 

Defo need to see the agreement!

 

 

No problems guys..well the statments say HP statement at the top and Im sure the new agreement does not say Agreement modifying a Hire Purchase Agreement regulated by CCA as suggested by beyondhope..

Need to dig that pesky thing out...

[beyondhope]

No problems guys..well the statments say HP statement at the top and Im sure the new agreement does not say Agreement modifying a Hire Purchase Agreement regulated by CCA as suggested by beyondhope..

Need to dig that pesky thing out...

 

 

Find it or send CCA request and/or subject access request.......in fact id be inclined to send SAR anyway to see what appears template is at the top of the welcome forum cost £10 but its amazing what turns up from it

[jj69]

If anybody could offer some advice on the following :

 

Got a car loan with Welcome about £7000 to pay over next five years been phoned a few times by the local office to say I can have reduced one off payment of £5500...

Car is in good order worth about £2200...

I need to check the paper work but looking at VT car as I dont need it now got a job close to home

Welcome say can VT but would screw up my credit rating (it's crud anyway).Seeing other people do this on the forums has led to the Lewis group getting hold of it

I also have about £2k to put towards the loan but am hanging on as Welcome is in default with the FSCS and may get a massive reduction if their loan book is taken over.

 

The opther option I thought was to sell it on Autotrader/Ebay as spare or repairs stipulating there is still finance on it and put any money I recieve towards reducing the debt.

Can I legally sell the car as spares or repairs with finance ?

[jj69]

Morning Caggers..

Need some advice on anybody who has VT'd a car especially with Welcome.

total credit £11996.25 at 7% interest over 100 months..

 

Paying £120 a month for last three years have at a rough estimate paid back somewhere between £3000-£4000k.

I now have money to purchase a car outright and do not need finance thank god..

Speaking to my account manager at local branch he suggests not to VT car as it could cause further issues to my credit rating etc... yeh like it's not damaged enough , he also keeps suggesting I can have a massive discount on the outstanding balance ( most probably because Welcome are gonna hit the wall pretty soon...lol

The car is in excellent condition, has full service history,tax and all MOT's etc..

Can I hand it back if I have paid over a third or is it half ?

I want to sell private but it is on the HPI register and I know Welcome wont budge on removing from HPI register or reducing the balance..they want £6k to clear my car is worth around 2k ish..

Sp if I hand back the keys what is the correct procedure to follow with these slippery muppets ?

[dx100uk]

what about charges & mis-sold insurances - i bet they told you , you had to have them.

 

have a read of a few threads here ...you'll get the idea.

 

dx

[jj69]

 

what about charges & mis-sold insurances - i bet they told you , you had to have them.

 

have a read of a few threads here ...you'll get the idea.

 

dx

 

 

Not sure Im positive I did not get PPI but have not checked for insurances also any deposit can be added I belive, does that mean deposit should be showing on the orignal CCA. ?

[dx100uk]

have a read of this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?300751-handing-a-vehicle-back-thats-on-finance&p=3357246

 

dx

[jj69]

Excellent thread..got it nice and clear now....cheers DX100 you have made my day..letter to Welcome now...lol

[jj69]

have a read of this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?300751-handing-a-vehicle-back-thats-on-finance&p=3357246

 

dx

 

A few other things I have charges to claim back so thats one area to look at..Welcome also seem to think I have arrears of £350 so will these need to be cleared first ?

[just_jue]

Hi, I vt'd my car with Welcome last year and it hasn't effected my credit rating.

If you go ahead with the vt they would send you a final balance which would include all payments and the deposit you paid.

As you say that there is some arrears I would send Welcome a SAR to find out what charges they have added and this should let you know if they added any insurances.

Can I ask how was your deposit i.e trade in our cash?

 

When I vt'd the car last year, I sent a copy of the letter to head office, faxed it over and took one to the local branch just to make sure they had a copy. The bloke in the local branch would do me a receipt (probably couldn't find his crayons)

 

JJ

[jj69]

Hi, I vt'd my car with Welcome last year and it hasn't effected my credit rating.

If you go ahead with the vt they would send you a final balance which would include all payments and the deposit you paid.

As you say that there is some arrears I would send Welcome a SAR to find out what charges they have added and this should let you know if they added any insurances.

Can I ask how was your deposit i.e trade in our cash?

 

When I vt'd the car last year, I sent a copy of the letter to head office, faxed it over and took one to the local branch just to make sure they had a copy. The bloke in the local branch would do me a receipt (probably couldn't find his crayons)

 

JJ

 

 

Excellent thanks..SAR dropped off at local office tonight, apparently called head office who told me local branch would deal with this request.

Deposit was trade in not cash..I have the original docs from the Renault garage I part ex'd car for...on there it shows deposit of £4k..

Lmao ..no crayons available probably no sharp objects either..

So how quick was the VT ? and did you have to drop the car off or was it picked up..

My Welcome manager has been on at me to take the reduced offer and by no means to VT the car I can see why now in all likelyhood in a good position to hand it back.

Once VT request in did you get any further hassle from these planks, I need to be prepared and want everything done correctly as I know these morons are quick to add charges or bend the rules...

[just_jue]

Hi, I sent my letter at the end of August and the car was collected within 3 weeks (which was lucky as the tax and MOT ran out at the end of Sept).

Mine was a bit complicated as they 'tucked' me up and it took nearly a year of complaining to Welcome and the FOS before I got my result.

Funnily enough they said I owed them £5.85 and even got their 'high risk department' onto me before I proved they had got their sums wrong.

SO if you traded in your car for £4000 and you have paid say £3600 you would be over the VT limit, all you should be liable for would be the arrears.

Welcome may and try to get you to voluntary surrender where you would be liable for the remaining balance.

A good tip is if they come to inspect the car (they didn't with me) try and video the inspection.

 

JJ

[just_jue]

This is a copy of the VT letter I sent theM:

 

'TO BE USED WHEN YOU WANT TO TERMINATE A HIRE PURCHASE AGREEMENT WITH YOUR CREDITOR

 

Your Name

Your Address

 

Company's Address

 

The Date

 

VOLUNTARY TERMINATION OF AGREEMENT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account Number (Car Make/Model and Registration Number)

 

I am/we are writing to notify you that I am/we are exercising my/our right to terminate the above Agreement under Section 99 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I/we understand that I shall/we will be liable to you for the amount calculated under the formula in Section 100 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Please send me/us details of how the vehicle can be returned to you.

 

Please confirm receipt of this request by telephone/fax to me/us on (your telephone number or fax number).

 

Yours faithfully

 

Your Name'

 

They may try and charge you a collection fee which I have been advised that is against the consumer credit act.

 

Just make sure that you letters are sent recorded as Welcome have a habit of mislaying letters.

 

The car must have an MOT, not sure about the tax, I left mine on as it had less than a month left. It has to be road worthy and all the tyres must have tread on them.

 

JJ

[dx100uk]

jj its amazing how you've gone from a very worried new user to someone with the confidence to help in such a short time

 

keep it up

 

dx

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