Pay and Display - took my money out of hours

[JBond]

Hello,

 

I received a parking ticket for being parked in a pay and display bay after hours. Monday - Saturday 8am - 6:30pm

 

I bought my ticket at 7pm, when I got back to the car and found a ticket on the car, I read the sign (properly) and realised what had happened.

 

My argument is that why did the pay and display machine allow me to purchase a ticket if it was out of hours?

 

Has this happened to anyone else? I'm thinking of appealing, comments would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[my-spirit-soars-free]

Do you mean you bought a ticket, rather than you were ticketed by a traffic warden?

 

You have nothing to appeal, you could ring them up and ask them what their policy is when people buy a ticket by mistake - but by the time you have paid for the phone call, paid for the stamp, and the envelope, paper, reckoned in your time - is it worth it?

[JBond]

Yes, I bought (paid for) my Pay and Display ticket at 7pm, I would have expected the machine to have been off (it being out of hours), like all the other machines I use.

Oh well, you live and learn.

Thanks

[lamma]

Council or PPC ?

[JBond]

Council

[JBond]

Reading this back - I have realised it's probably not very clear.

 

I bought a pay and display ticket at 7pm but the pay and display bays operate between 8am - 6:30pm after which they become resident only bays, hence me being given a parking ticket when I returned back to my car.

Sorry for any confusion

[green_and_mean]

Post up a copy of the PCN and the location it seems like a straight forward appeal if what you say is correct.

[JBond]

Sorry for the delay:

 

 

 

 

PNC.pdf

Edited July 6, 2010 by JBond
add pic

[JBond]

The sign:

 

[Michael Browne]

Photos are too small to read.

 

Contravention 12 is:

Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place

so the contravention did not occur, since you were displaying a P&D ticket issued for that bay.

 

Think the ticket should have been for 19:

Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place or zone displaying an invalid permit, an invalid voucher or an invalid pay & display ticket

but then 19 is a lower level contravention

[lamma]

Thats a winner !

Edited July 6, 2010 by lamma

[ashmk]

Im not a parking expert and still learning but they way I read what Mr Browne has said its Game, set and match to JBond then. Appeal and it should get cancelled. Correct?

[lamma]

council will deny everything. but its winner at adjudication.

[JBond]

Thank you to all those who responded to my post, I can confirm today the Parking Appeals Council have cancelled the PCN and found in my favour.

Although they did not have any issue with the Pay and Display machine issuing tickets outside of controlled hours as it is a shared machine for the road round the corner.

 

They did however feel the signs to be confusing!

 

I have posted a clearer picture of the signs and the Adjudicators letter. I feel Haringey Council will appeal this as they may have a few signs which need changing.

[JBond]

Just seen that I have to have posted more than 20 posts to be able to upload pictures.

[JBond]

Pictures to follow below:

[JBond]

Sign post and the Adjudicators letter.

[JBond]

Adjudicator’s Reasons

The Authority alleged that the Appellant was in a bay which was available at the material time for resident permit holders only. They have not produced a Traffic management Order to this effect but the Appellant has not taken issue with it. I am therefore prepared to accept that the above is common ground. The Appellant argued that he was misled by the sign. The issue therefore is whether the signage was clear.

According to the Authority, the bay is a shared use bay from Mondays to Saturdays, 8:00am to 6:30 pm. From 6:30 pm to 10:00 pm Mondays to Saturdays and 8:00am to 10:00pm on Sundays, it is a residents only bay. I presume that it is a free bay at any other times.

The signage was set out in two panels as follows. The upper panel carried the information about the residents only aspect of the bay I note it used 6:30 in stead of 6:30 pm which, in the context of a bay that is controlled in the morning as well, is in itself confusing but also confusing when read in conjunction with the lower panel. I shall return to this later. The lower panel purported to describe the share use spaces. There was an arrow which indicated that this only applied to the spaces to the left of the arrow. That is not an issue.

The main problem is how the second panel was worded. It started by stating the time:

Mondays to Saturdays, 8:00am to 6:30 pm. It then stated resident permit or pay and display. It therefore gives the impression of a normal shared use bay sign, which can be read as if the bay was a shared use bay during those hours, and free at any other times.

One must therefore read the upper panel in conjunction with the lower panel to discover that the bay was not free at other times. The first problem with this is that the arrow does not appear in the upper panel, which can give the impression that the spaces to the left of the panel are not governed by the upper panel. Secondly, if different panels refer to different times of controls, the convention is the panels should be placed chronologically so that the uppermost panel covers the earliest times. The position is reversed here with a 6:30 pm control; above an 8:00 am control. The absence of pm after 6:30 made it even more confusing.

I find that the signage was misleading and therefore inadequate. I am allowing the appeal.