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Bryan Carter Timeline Confusion


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Hi All,

 

Firstly, thanks go to this forum, without which I wouldn't have gotten as far as I already have.

 

I am currently going through the usual problems with Bryan Carter Solicitors and am confused about the timeline due to the various extensions. Here's the timeline so far:

 

1. Received Northampton County Court Claim Form with an Issue Date of 21st May 2010

2. Completed AOS online requesting a 28 day extension on the 3rd June 2010

3. Sent CCA and CPR requests by recorded delivery on the 14th June 2010

4. The above requests were signed for/delivered on the 15th June

5. Received a letter from Bryan Carter on the 15th June stating, "We do require a further 28 day extension in order to obtain and file these documents. We consent to an extension of time to file the Defense being fourteen days from the date that documentation is sent."

6. Received another letter from BC dated 21st June 2010, "We have referred the matter to our client ..... In the mean time, we confirm that we have placed the account on hold."

 

Now, after further reading on this forum I believe I shouldn't take too much notice of BC's replies and continue to file a defence? I'm now confused as to what deadlines are now in place due to the various 'extensions' being mentioned. Also, when does the initial AOS 28 day extension start from? The date of the Claim Issue Date or 28 days after the initial 14 days you have to reply to the claim? Do BC's extension hold any water or should I ignore them as they are just trying to win by default by me not filing a defence? Hope I havn't missed any crucial deadlines....

 

Thanks in advance.

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I believe you should ignore any extentions and file an embarrassed defense due to not getting the CCA etc. Hopefully someone can post up the defense or you can find one in the search.

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Agree with twofoot. They've had long enough. Call the court and ask what date they are expecting documents.

 

I half expect Carter to forget to tell the court about the extension and go for default judgment.

 

Did you inform the court yourself of Carter's request for a further 28 days? You could have refused this.

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Moving to the legal forums....

PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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Normal rule when the Claimant agrees to an extension via CPR 15.5 is that the Defendant has to notify the Court, the Claimant is under no responsibility to do so once they have given consent to the Defendant. This is a procedural thing that trips up a lot of LiPs and rookie solicitors occasionally. It is sometimes used as trick to get judgement by default. ;) The extension has to be for a maximum of 28 days from when you were supposed to file it. If you want more days, or the Claimant has given you more days than 28 days or even if the Claimant refuses to the extension, an application notice must be made under CPR 23.

 

A letter needs to be sent to the Court, and it is common courtesy to cc the Claimant in the correspondence.

 

Once it is sent, it must be confirmed with the Court that an extension to file the Defence has been made.

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Great stuff rhodium. Is it correct that the defendant can refuse to allow the claimant more time if the claimant is requesting it?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Hey DB... long time no speak. ;) Refusing the Claimant more time to find the documents... well... they are actively searching for the documents you requested and have not claimed privilege against self-incrimination or anything like that as a reason not to disclose the documents hence it is advisable to let them. The reason why it is advisable is if you hypothetically refuse, what then, you have to file a very weak defence asking leave of the Court to amend your defence later. Then once they have finished their disclosure, you have to amend your defence and submit that to the Court anyway.

 

So in my opinion, it is more worthwhile to give them all the time they need as this information is more important to you than to them because if they submitted the claim without it and now need an additional few weeks to search for it, it tells you something. ;)

 

Also, if they are asking for a few weeks to search for it, I don't see the benefit to the Defendant not to agree because no amount of refusal, tantrums or even threats will make them disclose the information quicker. You can complain to the Court but they will just say they are doing their best and what then?? You are painted in a bad light.

 

So based on the above, them granting you an extension of time so they can search the documents is a far easier road to travel rather than refusing and submitting the stop-gap defence. That is just my humble opinion but Defendants will do with whatever they feel comfortable with and there is nothing wrong with that.

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Thanks again, R. I understand.

 

This excellent advice backs up the brilliant thread pt2537 instigated about the whole legal process.

 

It's a gift to be able to understand the logic of the legal profession - I'm beginning to think it's not something you can learn!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Thanks for the replies so far, very useful and interesting. I tend to agree that I should allow BC whatever 'reasonable' time they require to obtain documents as it should only strengthen my case when they fail to produce them. However, when they state, "We do require a further 28 day extension in order to obtain and file these documents. We consent to an extension of time to file the Defense being fourteen days from the date that documentation is sent." does this mean there is now an extension in place (in the eyes of the court) as they as the claimant have requested it? I'm also confused as to when all these extensions start from. Am I correct in assuming it is as follows:

 

1. They file a claim which is dated 21st May 2010

2. I submit an AOS online (3rd June) and tick the box saying I require a 28 day extension (I've read the extension starts from the date of the AOS).

3. BC now say they require a further 28 day extension (from when?)

4. BC will give me 14 days from the date they complete the CCA and CPR requests.

 

Basically I'm now unsure when I should be filing an embarrassed defence. Again, thanks for your help, I'd be lost (well, more lost) without it :)

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It must be late and I must be sozzled (vodked up, he he) but something is not right about your dates and your statement about the Ack. Can you check online as soon as you can to make sure that your date to file your defence hasn't passed? The reason why I am asking is that MCOL normally takes 5 days from date of issue for the claim to be deemed served but the Ack gives you 28 days from date of service, not from date of Ack to file your defence. Check that as a matter of importance when you can and I would be extremely extremely happy to have got the dates muddled up but I plead inebriation as my defence.... HIC! :grin: LOL

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Thanks for the reply.

Well, I tried to log back onto MCOL but it just says, "Claim number or password is incorrect." and I can assure you they are correct. I can only assume from this that the date to file a defence has passed and that's why I cannot access the claim?

 

I cannot see how a 28 day extension would be 28 days from the date of service as, by default, I have 14 days to respond to the claim. Surely a 28 day extension would be 32 days. 28 days from date of service is only a 14 day extension? Either way if the date to file a defence has passed then it appears BC letters quoting, "We do require a further 28 day extension in order to obtain and file these documents." are irrelevant or was I supposed to take some action at that point to 'allow' this 28 day extension.

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As rhodium says, send their copy of the 28 day request to the court together with a note from yourself accepting same, and define the date you believe this takes them up to to deliver the documents.

 

Make it clear that you would then expect 14 days from that point, or from the point the FULL AND CORRECT documents are supplied, to file a defence.

 

The court will then, hopefully, reopen the filing period. However, you will have to conduct everything in writing from now.

 

If Carter goes for a default judgment having sent you that letter, he will look very silly - and vexatious - indeed.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Either way if the date to file a defence has passed then it appears BC letters quoting, "We do require a further 28 day extension in order to obtain and file these documents." are irrelevant or was I supposed to take some action at that point to 'allow' this 28 day extension.

 

Unfortunately, you were supposed to act promptly at that point.

 

There is a strict timetable which I advise must be followed as regards disclosure (leaving out the usual ack of claim and filing of defence):

 

Day 1: Deemed service of Claim Form

Day 2: Send CPR 31.14 request with 7 days to reply

Day 12: No reply

Day 12: Dispatch of letter to Claimant asking for more time to file the defence with 7 days to reply.

Day 19: No reply or refusal for extension of time.

Day 19: Application to Court to extend time of filing of Defence with Statement of Costs (Summary Assessment) put in.

Day 25: Confirm with Court that the application has been granted.

 

I would use an application to get the time extended, not a letter as that could easily be disregarded.

 

You are in safe hands with DB... follow his excellent advice.

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If only I had half your knowledge rhodium... do you never sleep?

 

Must try some of that vodka fuel...

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Euuuu vodka... ODed too much last night. Good excuse not to do any housework... ;) Yeah I wish! Self induced alcohol poisoning is not a valid defence with the missus as the presiding Judge! LOL. The thing about law and I am sure PT and others will back me up is that it is all research... if you are taught the general principles, you are expected to research to expand that knowledge. So it is easily something that anyone can do with the right tools. :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for all your responses so far, very helpful.

 

I have so far written to the courts informing them of BC's requested 28 day extension. That extension is almost up (2 days to go) I presume I should then file an embarrassed defence? I have seen a few templates on this site so I'll use one of those, but I'd like to mention the fact that they've had the additional 28 days they requested and still failed to produce the documents (as I believe this will only strengthen my defence). Is there any particular wording I should use for this as the defence templates seem very 'legally worded' and I don't want to mess it up with my amateurish attempts at being Rumpole :eek:

 

Thanks.

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