PPI Complaint with Welcome Finance via FOS Lost

[Laitty]

Hi

 

As always, looking for advice as I've become one of the 4% of people that has lost a complaint against Welcome with the FOS.

 

My Dad took out a car loan with Welcome in Feb 2005. The car cost £7,000, the PPI (after interest was added) cost £5,005. Now I think about that was an extraordinary amount!

 

PPI covered 12 months per claim.

 

My Dad retired at 60, two years after taking out the PPI. Despite the policy terms, when he tried to cancel he was told he could not - presumably because of the interest etc. We were paying £95 a month for this.

 

After starting a PPI mis-selling claim against them, they did offer £1,500 back on the retirement....but as the claim was for over £5,000 we rejected that.

 

Whilst working, my Dad had life cover at 3 times his annual salary. Six months sickness pay and three pensions (which I assume he could have cashed in at any time if he'd wanted too). Therefore he was adequately covered in my view. We were told we could not have the car without the PPI sold by them. We were kept at the showroom for five hours without food or drink until they sold us a car (and yes, we did try to leave but they kept trying different options).

 

My Dad signed a Demand & Needs statement at the time....suggesting we had the cover. However, no one in the family really recalls this (we certainly don't have a copy), but he was forced to sign it. We were, as far as we can tell, not informed that other PPI's were available or that any other cover may be an option. I believe that the person who sold the PPI was not qualified to sell financial products to us.

 

So on this basis, I started a PPI cliam on their behalf a year ago. During this time they did off that retirement compensation, but little else. Today, the FOS have informed us that we have lost our complaint because of the Demands and Needs statement that we were forced to sign. There is apparently a bit on the credit agreement that says we have applied for optional insurance products.

 

Furthermore, the FOS have not even accepted that the retirement cancellation should be refunded to us even though it clearly states that the policy can be cancelled at any time - and that this should have been refunded to us.

 

I feel incredibly guilty at letting my family down on this and don't know what to do next. Do we take it to the next level and the actual Ombudsman? The adjudicator did contact us - but only to ask a couple of small questions....we have never been asked to provide a statement (such as witness statement) apart from the original form to them which detailed four ways in which the PPI was mis-sold. Indeed, looking at the original form just now - she hasn't really answered the complaint. We said that the PPI was sold to us part of the deal & without it, there would be sale and that the salesman pushed through the sale....and yet, no mention of this in her letter today.

 

Any advice would be extremely welcome so TIA

[Sand-Dancer0191]

This is probably what its based on

FSA Factsheet:

 

What we would expect a compliant demands and needs statement for an advised sale to cover (with relevant FSA rule references)

 

* The customer’s demands and needs (ICOB 4.41®(a)6). For example this should include the advisors assessment of whether the customer has other insurance in place that affects their needs, including employer benefits; the need for the future flexibility if relevant; and so on

 

* Reasons for recommending a particular PPI contract (ICOB 4.41R(1)(c )). This should set out why the recommendation contract suits based on that particular customers needs. For example, it should explain why the recommendation is suitable considering the costs of the contract if relevant (ICOB 4.3.6R(2)7) and the exclusion and limits of the contract (ICOB 4.3.6R(3)).

 

* Demands and needs not met by the recommended contract. The statement of demands and needs is the record that you must keep to show that you have made a suitable recommendation (ICOB 4.4.5G). You should consider recording the demands and needs of the customer the personal recommendation doesn’t meet (ICOB 4.3.1R(3)(b)). For example, if the customer needs future flexibility you may wish to explain the constraints on this ( for example, refunds of premium not being available or not being on pro rata basis.

[Sand-Dancer0191]

Did you sar them.

The info should also include insurances/underwriting sheets etc.Look at the true cost of the insuranceand poss commission??

[Sand-Dancer0191]

Come on Laitty all is not lost...They made an offer before the FOS WHY !!

There must be something else wrong that you have missed...they don't make an offer like that for no reason.....LOOK for that reason.

[dedogs******]

My friend had the same response from the fos, she was told by welcome no ppi no deal, she held two jobs one as a civil servant 37 hours a week, the other as a carer 30 hours aweek as a civil servant she gets paid while off sick so the sickness part was not much use and she would have to lose both jobs for any unemployment benefits as both jobs are over 17 hours per week yet the fos deemed the policy was suitable for her needs,I would like them to explain how she could claim on these policies,welcome also neglected to inform her that she could obtain these policies if wanted else where, FOS ARE YOU WELCOME IN DISGUISE

[jdene]

FOS have done the same thing with me allowed them to pay a pittance and ignored all the other complaints, including secret commission they in my opinion have been told to back off welcome in order for them to get money in for some wealthy shareholders, but I am still going to court they wont dare turn up with the evidence i Have.

see my thread welcome secured loan ppi ripoff

jdene

[JonCris]

Sorry but the FOS are a joke & aren't binding anyway They are often overturned by the courts. Send Welcome an LBA threatening to commence proceedings

[JonCris]

PS also demand that as you believe their decision to be fundamentally wrong & intend issuing legal proceedings you require detailed reasons for their rejection of your claim

 

This often gets them to take a second look & your claim may even go up the FOS food chain to someone who know what they are doing

[Sand-Dancer0191]

I believe that 185.000 cases need to be redeturmined due to recent FSA rule changes

[dedogs******]

is it normal for an insurance policy to run beyond the term of the loan i.e loan term 36 ppi 36 months lifecare 60 months

[EBOY]

The staff in the FOS are very poor and in most cases do not understand welcomes statements. Not surprising because even Welcome can't explain their customers statements. I would go back to the FOS and tell them they are wrong. They tried to tell me welcome had made refunds of £2k only for me to point that the balance was showing £2k less!!!!!!

 

Keep the pressure on welcome. I found that they really only started to play when they were no longer getting any payments of me.

[just_jue]

#11 I quite agree been having real trouble with Welcome and the FOS are saying they have done nothing wrong. You have to keep onto them showing their errors.

 

Good luck

 

JJ

[Laitty]

Thanks for all your comments.....given me great heart to continue the battle!

 

I have now received a copy of the Demands and Needs Statement via the FOS. Interestingly, it is not one document....but two. The first is the actual D&S but it neither written in my fathers hands, nor signed by him. There is an additional sheet supplied which may Dad has signed - but there is no date on this, neither is it signed by a witness which the sheet states is required.

 

Does that call in to question the validity of the paperwork? How do we know either of them weren't filled in 6 months ago?

 

TIA

[Laitty]

Well, I've continued the battle.....but have lost again. The same adjudicator who made the original decision doesn't believe there is enough evidence to change her mind. This despite telling her that we haven't filled the D&N statement in, that we were never made aware that you could get 'other' PPI insurance at a much smaller cost because they were pressuring us into buying their PPI. Despite the PPI being sold to us by someone who is not qualified financially (a matter she still has not addressed). Hell, she hasn't in found in our favour regarding our (aborted by them) attempts to cancel the PPI. It seems to read that as we rejected their minimal compensation offer, we are no longer entitled to complain about this! Is that right?

 

Very very down over this. Its difficult reading about how most people seem to be succeeding with their PPI and yet we've failed when we have a fairly strong case IMHO. We were completely and utterly pressurised in to taking out the PPI, it wasn't right for us, it was far too expensive, and it was sold by someone who was not qualified....and yet we lost?

 

Confused of Colchester.

[Dibbothe3rd]

Have you tried contacting the FSA regarding the Sale of PPI? Maybe worth asking them for some rules and information on what constitutes a compliant sale of PPI. Financial Advisers and strictly controlled when selling insurance products and i think PPI falls under the FSA. If an IFA mis-sells any insurance then there are big repercussions for the IFA.

[nomisc22]

Hello, I work for a claims management company claiming PPI (add your hate coments here!).

 

I wouldn't want to judge your complaint with seeing all information, but adjudicator decisions are actually now beyond a joke. In the last four months they've gone from bad to dire to disgraceful. The adjudicators don't even know the FOS guildlines for addressing complaints or how the FOS is suppost to work and many must have only been at the FOS a very short period of time.

1) Welcome only sold single-premium PPI

2) Your Dad was sold an inflexiable policy close to retirement age (clearly this wasn't suitable)

3) Your Dad didn't need PPI as he had good employer sick pay other benefits etc.

4) The price of the PPI sounds outrageous and that alone in the past would have shown mis-selling

Welcome Finance are one of the worst companies out there and a 'demands and needs' statement is no excuse for mis-leading verbal statements (the FSA have stated this many times)

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/PR/2008/115.shtml

 

I find that the adjudicators often write back in a tone that suggests that your being 'unreasonable' (their job is to to get one side to give in!)

 

Please don't give in and appeal the decision (hopefully another adjudicator will look at this and realise the mistake, but if they again reject it make sure it goes to an Ombudman as are a million times better than adjudicators). If there's any specific points from the adjudicator you want me to answer post it on here and I'll let you know what I think.

 

The wait for an Ombudsman is probably more than 12 months for PPI complaints at the moment but its worth it!