Police let bailiff into my property ***WON - bailiffs certificate removed ***

[Vicki202]

yes i intend to ask them for that never thought to do that looks like another letter going out lol

[Vicki202]

The police are already massivley involved as 10 officers are under investigation for assisting the bailiff while she was here

[F_DCAs]

I don't think they realize it but the council have really have dropped the police in it namely "He denies being unpleasant but does state that he did advise that you must deal with the bailiff". Even if offered it with the best of intentions he has absolutley no authority to give such advice nor was he wise to do so as by doing it he has involved himself directly in the collection of a debt.

 

In addition such language clearly implies that he DID aid the bailiff in entering your home

 

I do hope you are going to complain to the police

 

 

I'd agree with that - if the council have told you that in writing, it's as good as a written confession - that of complicity in an offence.

 

And that's just as guilty as the one who commits the offence, and ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.

 

I hope you really come down heavy on them for this, as this is an arrestable offence. If the bailiff is arrested, then so should the policeman involved.

[hallowitch]

I would subject access request the council our council don't charge a fee for this

 

personally i think the revenues department (the bloke you spoke on the phone) should have taken this debt back as soon as you told him about the alleged assault this being done to protect you the bailiff and the council the seriousness of the situation should have been paramount you should not have been told to deal with the bailiff

 

This being the same bailiff that allegedly assaulted you as your account was sill being held by her

 

 

I use the word alleged because at the time of the phone call its just an allegation

However a serious allegation should be immediately looked into and the debtor should not be put back in the lions den

[F_DCAs]

I would subject access request the council our council don't charge a fee for this

 

personally i think the revenues department (the bloke you spoke on the phone) should have taken this debt back as soon as you told him about the alleged assault this being done to protect you the bailiff and the council the seriousness of the situation should have been paramount you should not have been told to deal with the bailiff

 

This being the same bailiff that allegedly assaulted you as your account was sill being held by her

 

 

I use the word alleged because at the time of the phone call its just an allegation

However a serious allegation should be immediately looked into and the debtor should not be put back in the lions den

 

 

Agree with this also. Now that the whole affair is under police investigation, the council should be placing this on hold until the investigation is complete. Clearly, this has gone beyond civil matter, and is now a criminal matter.

[JonCris]

The police are already massivley involved as 10 officers are under investigation for assisting the bailiff while she was here

 

 

10:shock: & they can't find the time to attend a mugging or a burglary often even when the burglar is still on the premises but they can send 10:evil: to help in enforcing a debt

 

You may not want it but it would be great to get the press involved they'd love such a story

 

"You were unpleasant" what did he expect a welcoming committee of course you were unpleasant so would most people be in that situation clearly that one's not the sharpest tool in the box

[Vicki202]

the police where called by her at first because her keys where removed from her van after her assaulting me as i didnt no who she was and to make sure she didnt get away without it been reported the other police where called when i tried to stop her entering my property while dealing with the police

[JonCris]

Which police force was it & no matter who ask them if they have guidelines like the following & if not why not

 

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DEVON & CORNWALL C O N S T A B U L A R Y

Force Policy & Procedure Guideline Attending Premises with Bailiffs

Reference Number D222

Policy Version Date 11 June 2008

Review Date 01 June 2009

Policy Ownership: Criminal Justice Department

Portfolio Holder: Assistant Chief Constable (JPS)

Links or overlaps with other policies:

DEVON AND CORNWALL POLICE AND PROCEDURE GUIDELINE D222

ATTENDING PREMISES WITH BAILIFFS

Version dated: 11 June 2008

1. POLICY AND AUDIT IDENTIFICATION

1.1 This policy has been drafted and audited in accordance with the principles of

Human Rights legislation and the Race Relations (amendment) Act 2000. Under

the Freedom of Information Act 2000, the document is classified as OPEN.

2. POLICY STATEMENTS/INTENTIONS

2.1 This document is designed as a reference point for officers when dealing with bailiffs and other officers of the court legally authorised to collect a debt on behalf of a creditor.

2.2 The policy gives officers guidance on their role when attending premises with bailiffs, and for their information also provides summaries of the rules bailiffs should follow when lawfully conducting their business.

2.3 Policy Contents:

3. Introduction

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4. Procedures

5. Determining Criminal Liability

6. Review

7. Appendix A – Range of Bailiffs and Enforcement Officers

8. Appendix B – Bailiff Rules: Gaining Entry to Premises

9. Appendix C – Bailiff Rules: Inside Premises

3. INTRODUCTION

3.1 The law relating to bailiffs and their powers is extremely wide. Using legal authorisation, they may collect debts for any number of creditors. This can sometimes be a difficult experience for both debtor and bailiff, which is why officers may be called to attend.

3.2 The usual authority of a bailiff is a warrant issued by a county court to recover goods or monies owed, or goods to the value of monies owed, from a debtor. The alternative authority officers will likely experience is a distress warrant or liability order issued by a Magistrates’ Court.

3.3 The Constabulary's involvement with regard to the policing of bailiffs – as with any other civil dispute - is to prevent a breach of the peace from occurring, or to attend an incident when a specific criminal offence has occurred or is likely to occur.

3.4 These instances will largely be confined to: disputes by debtors over a bailiff’s entry to their premises when executing a warrant or liability order; the lawful conduct of the bailiff when entering and inside the premises; and any criminal/illegal activity committed by either a bailiff or debtor.

3.5 Further Guidance on Bailiffs is available in the Appendices, and: The National Standards for Enforcement Agents, which are advisory and not mandatory minimum standards for bailiffs. Available at:

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

The Association of Civil Enforcement Agencies’ Guide to Bailiffs & Bailiff Law for Police Officers. Available at:\\hqdc2\hqdc2dfs\Criminal Justice

Department\HQ\Operations\ Guidance and Legislation\Attending Premises with Bailiffs\ACEA Police Guide to Bailiffs & Bailiff Law v1.1.pdf

4. PROCEDURES

4.1 When first called to a scene, or if attending a scene with a bailiff by prior arrangement, a constable should be satisfied of:

a. The bailiff's identity and status,

b. The authority on which the bailiff has or seeks to enter the premises; including any relevant documentation which gives the bailiff the power to enter the premises,

The fact that the bailiff has located the correct premises or correct debtor.

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4.2 Advice for bailiffs is that they should always, upon request, produce relevant identification, such as a badge or ID card, together with a written authorisation to act on behalf of the creditor.

4.3 If a bailiff or court officer is unable to provide evidence of identity, status, authority or power, and is causing a breach of the peace or committing an offence, the police constable should prevent the bailiff from entering the premises, or if already on the premises, should remove the bailiff/court officer at once.

4.4 If the documentation is in order, the constable should remind the bailiff that entry

must be obtained without force, except in the circumstances highlighted in

Appendix B. N.B. Bailiffs can take goods from outside the premises such as a

debtors car on a driveway (if they have a clamping order), or garden equipment.

4.5 Constables should be aware of their duty to keep the peace. If there is a sufficiently real and imminent threat of a breach of the peace, the constable should be very careful when determining who is acting unlawfully, then act accordingly by arresting the prime culprit of the potential breach, or using his/her discretion to diffuse the situation. It is vital to remain impartial to determine whose conduct is unlawful.

4.6 However, it is not the responsibility of the Officer to act as an arbitrator between the bailiff and the debtor, nor to determine the rights and wrongs of the issue, and in no way should the officer assist in the seizure of any goods.

5.0 DETERMINING CRIMINAL LIABILITY

5.1 When determining that there is a sufficiently real and imminent threat of a breach of the peace, which justifies an arrest, the officer must decide whose conduct is causing that breach.

5.2 If the bailiff were hindered in any way whilst acting lawfully and reasonably in the course of their duties, then that would constitute a breach of the peace by those causing the obstruction.

5.3 If a debtor is present when a bailiff is entering and levying distress, he/she could face arrest and criminal liability if:

a. They forcibly exclude the bailiff from his/her premises should they have

gained peaceful entry. N.B. This could result in subsequent forced re-entry by the bailiff, as outlined in Appendix B.

b. They conceal or remove goods that have been allocated as the subject of

distress during an earlier visit (this is known as ‘Walking Possession’).

N.B. in other cases a debtor is well within his/her rights to conceal or remove

goods in order to avoid distress.

5.4 However, should the bailiff be acting unreasonably or unlawfully whilst gaining entry, whilst inside the premises, or so to provoke the debtor, then that will be considered unlawful on their part.

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5.5 Police constables should also be aware that in very rare cases a bailiff's persistent and frequent actions or demands for payment may constitute harassment under

Sec. 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

5.6 If other elements exist, such as a bailiff threatening or using violence to gain entry, or assault or criminal damage by either party, then other powers of arrest should be used.

6.0 REVIEW

6.1 The contents of this guideline will be reviewed annually by the Commander, Criminal Justice Department.

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7.0 APPENDIX A – RANGE OF BAILIFFS AND ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS

7.1 county court Bailiffs:

Enforce money owed under county court Judgement debt.

• Power: can Seize and sell goods, effect and supervise the possession of property and the return of goods under hire purchase, and serve court documents.

7.2 High Court Enforcement Officers:

Enforce money owed under high court judgement, or judgement transferred from county court.

• Power: Can seize and sell goods, & enforce and supervise the possession of property and the return of goods.

7.3 Civilian Enforcement Officers (CEO’s are employed by HMCS): Enforce Magistrates’ Court Orders, fines and community penalty notices.

• Power: can Seize and sell goods to recover amount of money owed under a fine and community penalty notice. Under certain statutes, have the power of

ARREST, committal, detention and distress.

7.4 Certificated Bailiffs:

Enforce debts on behalf of a variety of organisations, including magistrates’ courts and local authorities.

• Power: They can seize and sell goods to cover the amount of debt. They hold a certificate, which enables them (only) to levy distress for rent, road traffic debts, council tax, non-domestic rates, and debts of Child Support Agency, Inland Revenue, Customs & Excise (VAT), and Magistrates Court Fines. They cannot enforce monies owed under High/county court Orders.

7.5 Non-Certificated Bailiffs:

Enforce debts owed to a variety of organisations.

• Power: are only entitled to seize the goods that are subject of the to the particular debt being pursued, e.g. a car bought on credit when the payments have not been made.

7.6 The above list is not substantive, and there are a few other people/organisations that have similar powers to bailiffs. These include Landlords enforcing rent and Collectors of Taxes who enforce unpaid Income Tax and National Insurance.

7.7 In Devon & Cornwall, HMCS contracts the civil enforcement agency 'Drakes' (a certificated bailiff) that works on its behalf with regard to executing warrants of distress in respect of non-payment of fines. They are not contracted to execute warrants of arrest, this is undertaken by CEOs and Devon & Cornwall

Constabulary.

8.0 APPENDIX B – BAILIFF RULES: GAINING ENTRY TO PREMISES

8.1 The actions of a bailiff lawfully entering a premises and seizing and selling goods to cover monies owed by the debtor, including the bailiff’s fees, is called ‘levying distress’. The term ‘distress’ used on its own generally means the procedure for bailiffs just to ‘seize’ goods; this may not necessarily involve removing and selling the goods.

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8.2 The basic rule for Bailiffs is that entry should be without force, thus they have the right to peaceful entry only. There is no legal requirement by a debtor to let a bailiff into their home.

8.3 To gain peaceful entry, the bailiff can walk through an open door, open an unlocked door, climb through an open window, and even climb over a wall or fence, provided no damage is caused in so doing.

8.4 The bailiff cannot, however, break open a closed but unfastened window or door, open a closed latched window, or use a locksmith to open a door. Use of a landlord's key is also illegal. They cannot force their way past someone at a door, or wedge their foot in a doorway to prevent the door being closed. The protection against forced entry extends to all buildings physically attached to the living premises.

8.5 Reasonable Force may be used to gain entry in these circumstances only:

a. A bailiff is executing a magistrates distress warrant for non-payment of fines.

b. A bailiff has once previously entered a debtor’s home peacefully, or was forcibly ejected by the occupier after gaining lawful entry, and is returning to levy the goods.

c. The officer is a High Court enforcement officer and the premises to be entered with force are separate non-domestic premises, which are not connected to the living accommodation, e.g. a workshop or barn. Or, the

premises are a third party's house where goods have been taken to avoid seizure by a bailiff. A demand for entry should always be made first.

d. More rarely, a Landlord has a county court Possession order to evict a tenant, or requires entry to a stranger's premises and has an oath sworn by the Magistrates to the effect that there are grounds for believing goods have been fraudulently removed to those premises.

E Or, an Inland Revenue Collector enforcing income tax for HMRC has a warrant to force entry.

N.B. A county court Bailiff must always obtain the permission of a District Judge before a forced entry to separate non-domestic premises, stranger’s premises, or when returning for a second time to remove a debtors goods.

8.6 With regard to time of calling, only bailiffs collecting rent are obliged to call after sunrise and before sunset. There are no restrictions for when a levy of distress shall commence in respect of unpaid fines, costs and compensation. N.B. The

National Standards for Enforcement Agents, which are advisory and not mandatory, highlight that enforcement should only commence at a reasonable time between 6am and 9pm, or during trading hours, excluding Sundays and Public

Bank holidays, unless the court specifically orders otherwise or legislation permits it.

9.0 APPENDIX C – BAILIFF RULES: INSIDE PREMISES

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Edited June 29, 2010 by JonCris

[Vicki202]

that could turn out interesting i do not no what was said the Sargent that brought her into my house the second time but the sargent made out she had a warrant to witch i now no she didnt it was a liability order

[Vicki202]

I have been in touch with tyne tee's tonight and they would like me to email them a brief summery of whats gone on and i dont have a clue where to start pmsl

[seanamarts]

I have been in touch with tyne tee's tonight and they would like me to email them a brief summery of whats gone on and i dont have a clue where to start pmsl

At the the beginning .. try from the time she first got there at 6.30am.

[Vicki202]

yea lol shes admited knocking at 6.30 am to now why do that if newcastle city council state they cant collect on council tax before 8am

[hallowitch]

yea lol shes admited knocking at 6.30 am to now why do that if newcastle city council state they cant collect on council tax before 8am

 

 

i would print out a screen shot of that just in case it mysteriously disappears from there website

[Vicki202]

Already have a few of them haha lmao

[kiptower]

Vicki why not give the newspaper / tyne tee's the link to this thread etc

[Vicki202]

would i be allowed and would it show all content

[ploddertom]

Also this from the Council website:

 

Council Tax

 

in particular:

 

Distraint

 

The council can ask bailiffs to visit your home and take goods which may be sold to pay off your debt. They must send a letter, giving two weeks notice, telling you that bailiffs will call and how much you still owe under the liability order.

Contact the council and the bailiffs and try to make an arrangement to pay. If the bailiffs will not accept your offer of payment then ask the council to take the account back from bailiffs to let you pay the Council Tax directly. You should do this as soon as possible because you may be charged costs for each time the bailiffs visit your home. Use your personal budget to support your offer and start paying immediately.

 

 

 

Seems as if they are contradicting themselves!!

 

 

PT

[Vicki202]

very much so

[seanamarts]

looks to me that some of the councils employees do not know their own website content. Perhaps you should point this out to them.

[Vicki202]

Intend to just getting as much together as possible before i start to throw things at them

[Vicki202]

still in a struggle with how to do a short email for the news tho :S

[ploddertom]

Intend to just getting as much together as possible before i start to throw things at them

 

Be careful or you'll have the jewellery reapplied.

 

:cool:

 

PT

[Vicki202]

Morning all ive recived an email this morning from my local mp it only states they will contact the council and the police regarding the matter should i reply to them and attach coppies of the replys ive had and state how unsatisfactory they are or wait and ee if he manages anything

[Vicki202]

Hi guys keep going thro my reply letters from the formal complaints the more i read the one from the council the more it feels like they are deff gonna support the bailiff over this also not sure wether i should be replying to it saying its not good enough and the fact that it state on the website that if the bailiff company wont accept my offer then ask them to take it bk should i make a offer to the bailiff company via recorded delivery or make it to the vcouncil and point out about the taking it back from bailiff

[hallowitch]

you should reply to the councils letter

 

Your complaint received on 23 June 2010 has been referred to Rossendales to investigate the allegations that you have made in respect of *** ****** actions. I have received their reply with regard to this aspect of your complaint and will refer to this later in my letter.

 

Your Council Tax account was passed to Rossendales to collect on our behalf as the outstanding balance had not been paid and it was necessary to obtain a liability order on 22 October 2009. A letter was issued on 23 October 2009 requesting that the outstanding balance, £ 331.81 at that time, was paid within 14 days. The letter warned that if this amount was not paid as requested then the account would be passed to a firm of bailiffs to collect on our behalf. As no payments were received in respect of this debt, the account was passed to Rossendales on 28 January 2010.

 

I have received a report from Rossendales in respect of the actions that they have taken; I will list them in chronological order:

 

A bailiff first visited your property on 17 February 2010; you advised that you were in dispute about the outstanding balance and that you would contact the Council direct with regard to this matter.

If you did not speak to her reply

AT no time on the 17th did i have a conversation with miss xxxx (if she left a letter say a letter was left)

The bailiff re attended the property on 19 February 2010 and you advised that you had not contacted the Council yet.

as above

 

On 25 February 2010, Rossendales agreed to allow you to pay the debt at a rate of £ 40.00 per month as you were in receipt of Income Support, payments to commence on 1 March 2010. This arrangement was set up as a result of your telephone call to the Council on 25 February 2010.

I did not make a telephone call to the council i went to council office's

As no payments were received by the bailiff (£ 10.00 was received by the Council), a broken arrangement letter was issued by Rossendales on 8 March 2010.

 

Payment was made to the council direct as I have no method of payment to pay rossendaless neither the council or rossendales have provided me with with a method of payment to pay rossendales direct

A further letter was then issued by Rossendales warning that the case would be passed to an enforcement bailiff. On 23 March 2010 a bailiff attended the property and a levy on a vehicle was completed. A copy of the Notice of distress was given to you at that time.

A notice of seizure of goods and inventory was not left or handed to me on this or any other date

Rather than enforce the liability order straight away, the arrangement of £ 40.00 was reset to commence from 17 April 2010. As no payments were received by the bailiff (a further £ 20.00 had been received by the Council), another broken arrangement letter was issued.

 

As no response was received in respect of this, *** ****** visited the property on 10 June 2010 but was unable to meet anyone so a letter was left with her contact details. She noted that there was a white transit van at the property in addition to the vehicle that had already been levied on. She states that a second visit was made to try to confirm ownership of the vehicles; she noted that you drove off in the levied vehicle after putting a bridle and saddle into the vehicle. From this information, she made the assumption that you owned a horse. However she did not see a horse and did not make reference to ‘moving it from field to field’.

Had miss xxxx approached me i would have informed her i did not own a horse

I fail to understand why a bailiff would sit outside my property and not approach me

She re attended the property on 21 June 2010 at approximately 6.30 am.

*** ****** confirms she knocked on the door but received no response.

If miss xxxx did knock my door at 6.30 am i did not here the knock

however i mush question why she was there at this time in the morning as according to guidelines published on your website bailiff should not collect council tax till after 8am

 

She clamped the vehicle that she had previously seen you driving and left a notice under the windscreen wiper, she then withdrew from the property.

this notice was not in an envelope therefore anyone passing my car could read it

The national standards for enforcement agents clearly state

They must maintain strict client confidentiality and comply with Data Protection legislation and, where appropriate

 

She returned to the property 30 minutes later to find the clamp and the wheel had been removed. She attempted to put another clamp onto the vehicle, at which point both you and Mr *********** came out of the property. *** ****** states that Mr ********** removed the keys from her vehicle. She states that she tried to stop Mr ********* from doing so but was physically unable to do so and therefore rang the police. She confirms that there would have been some physical contact during this incident but she denies any allegation of assault.

 

She confirms two police officers attended the incident and that she subsequently entered the property through an open door. She then returned to her vehicle and contacted the Council where she was given permission to uplift goods. The police then requested that the Council telephone Miss******** which we duly did. She then re entered the property and proposed she would accept half the balance then and the remainder was to be paid the following week. Subsequently Mr ********** advised *** ****** that the payment could not be made until 23 June 2010. She agreed to this but left the clamp on the vehicle.

 

Subsequently a police officer rang *** ******* and confirmed that you would not press charges against her if she collected the money that day, the officer advised her not to attend alone. She then rang to arrange this but Mr ********* disputed the outstanding balance and refused to make payment as he stated that you were to press charges against *** ******

 

She only returned to the property to retrieve her wheel clamp. The account was then put on hold.

 

I note that you have pointed out that Mr ********** vehicle is not subject to a Walking Possession Agreement. If the bailiff had proposed to clamp it, she would simply have had to levy on it prior to doing so. The fact Mr *********** is a market trader does not necessarily mean that this vehicle is a ‘tool of the trade’.

I have spoken to the officer that rang you as a result of the request from the police. He confirms that no agreement was made for you to pay £ 100.00 per week. He denies being unpleasant but does state that he did advise that you must deal with the bailiff. As I understand the situation the clamp has been removed from your vehicle. However Council Tax does remain due and must be paid to Rossendales. I have advised them to allow you until the end of July to do so. If it has not been paid in full by then, the bailiff will take further action to recover the outstanding debt. I have however requested that *** ****** takes no further action in respect of recovering this debt.

If you wish to take action in respect of the alleged assault, this is a matter that you must pursue with the police.If you are not happy with the result of my investigation, you can ask our Corporate Complaints Officer to review your complaint. If you wish to do so, please telephone #

 

 

go through it like i have and bullet point things then post up your reply to