Chalkitup v Barclaycard

[Chalkitup]

Update

 

More help from Mercers after explaining my problems to them (see post 16)

 

Received letter from Resolvecall and they say they are acting on behalf of Mercers to collect the arrears. Are they connected at all with Barclays?

 

What a strange system this debt collection business is ........ they nearly always say they are acting on behalf of so and so. I suppose that is so they can not be tied down to anything.

 

Anyway ....... sending letter to Barclaycard or Mercers or Resolvecall (one of them) tomorrow to ask if docs sent in response to CCA are true copies of what I signed ..... which was absolutely nothing!!!

I have had time to look deeper into my Barclaycard history and after checking through all the past documents I find that I did not sign anything for the Barclaycard I held since 2001. In that year I was sent a "sign and return" type mailer (still got) to upgrade from the card I was then using. But I then telephoned Barclaycard and they did the application/admin over the phone (2001) and I did not sign anything. Hey Presto card arrived a few weeks later.

 

So ....... where does that leave them for coming up with a signed agreement? ............. can they use the one from the card I already had (if they still have it?)

 

The reason I ask is because the "true copy" of the application form they have sent me in response to my CCA request is not the correct application form for the card I held since 2001 as it has a cover saying Jan to Dec 1989????? ..... so all the APR's are different to what is said on the 2001 "sign and return" mailer.

 

Thanks

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Bazooka Boo]

I would let them try and work it out..... as far as your concerned the account is in dispute. Isn't it?

[Chalkitup]

I would let them try and work it out..... as far as your concerned the account is in dispute. Isn't it?

 

No ..... I have not sent "in dispute" letter yet.

 

First I was waiting for them to terminate so I could accept UR but no luck yet ...... unless I can use the phrase that Barclaycard have printed on the latest statement which is "Please be aware your card has been withdrawn" as meaning now terminated ..... any views?

 

Or I was going to put account in dispute because of the CCA response because for my last Barclaycard I did not sign anything let alone the blank application form that they sent. (Hence the questions I was asking in last post as getting a little complicated for me BUT as you are saying Bazooka Boo I do not want to help them at all!!!)

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Bazooka Boo]

I would send them the 'Failed' letter they will shoot themselves in the foot sooner or later, if you have a letter asking for the full balance to be paid, and not the arrears, then you can accept that as your termination letter, and accept their UR.

[Chalkitup]

By the "Failed" letter ..... do you mean the letter asking if docs sent in response to CCA are true copies of what I signed etc as I do not recognise them and at the same time putting account into dispute ...................... hence send that to Barclaycard .................. and then letters to Mercers and Resolvecall saying account in dispute suggest you contact Barclaycard???

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Bazooka Boo]

No sorry this one I meant;

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

[Chalkitup]

Update .....

 

Had a reply from Barclaycard .... only took them two days!!

 

Their response to my request that they remove my telephone numbers from their systems so everything can be in writing ...... NOTE ... I did write that in future I want everything to be done in writing .... so I am not just hiding away from them ...... "We note that you would like us to remove your phone numbers from our records so that we can not chase you for the debt" ..... Unreal ..... I never said anything about not chasing me for the debt.

 

As you can imagine they have only answered certain questions ......... no answer at all as to are they holding the original executed agreement that has my signature on !! And was the copy of the application form they sent taken from the original!! They write two pages of what they are allowed to send in response to CCA request ...... Carey case mentioned everywhere but none of the bits like "must be true honest copy" etc etc.

 

Love these statements they are obviously now using ...... "Please note where a copy of an application form has been provided to you, this is not a complete copy but only page one because T&C's including prescribed terms would have been on the reverse at the time it was signed. Ha Ha Ha And that is immediately followed by another masterpiece of their's in response to copy they sent being illegible ........ "Additionally, the document would have been easily legible at the time of signing"

 

Oh yes ..... they end by saying "We do not consider the account to be in dispute".

Strangely they do not reply to my question about three different companies contacting me all at the same time and trying to collect on the account.

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Bazooka Boo]

"Additionally, the document would have been easily legible at the time of signing"

 

That is right up there with "Valid even if not read by you"

What utter utter fools, how they manage to survive in their industry I'll never know!

 

Oh well, at least you have some excellent evidence of their sheer stupidity to put in front of a Judge if needed.

 

Have you been onto the OFT/TS via http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/contact

I would send them copies of all the dross you've been sent.

 

You just can't teach that level of stupidity, nor impunity!

[Chalkitup]

Update

 

Sent SAR to Barclaycard and got lots back but NO copy of original executed agreement / application form regarding the account. (They have sent a copy of the DN .... sent by and in the name of Mercers though which is good news for me).

 

I did specifically ask for application form / agreement in the SAR letter.

 

Should I now send them a letter along the lines of "where is the copy of the original agreement" or along the lines of "Do you confirm these are all the documents you are holding on me"

 

Thank you

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[izzitme101]

I missed something here, how does asking for full payment turn into a termination notice?

[Bazooka Boo]

Because it does.... How to explain???

 

OK, You have an agreement to pay a loan back at £100 a month, you miss a payment, they write to you saying that you are in default and have failed to pay the agreed amount on the agreed date and in order to rectify it you must pay the arrears by DD/MM/YY or though some incorrectly issue faulty DN's stating within 14 days or within 28 days of the date of the letter.....WRONG!

Then when you don't pay the arrears by their stipulated date or time period, they then terminate the account, and this is either done by letter stating that the account is terminated and you owe the full amount payable yesterday, OR an inept DCA picks up the lemon and states that you owe X amount, which is usually the full amount of the agreement you signed, this then acts as terminating the agreement, as they are asking for the full balance, and not, as was agreed, monthly payments.

 

Is that right???

[Bazooka Boo]

Sent SAR to Barclaycard and got lots back but NO copy of original executed agreement / application form regarding the account. (They have sent a copy of the DN .... sent by and in the name of Mercers though which is good news for me).

I did specifically ask for application form / agreement in the SAR letter.

Should I now send them a letter along the lines of "where is the copy of the original agreement" or along the lines of "Do you confirm these are all the documents you are holding on me"

 

I think in this case CIU, I would allow them the FULL 40 days for them to comply fully, then I would send them a letter before action (LBA) and in it ask them if they have fully complied with your SAR, if so to give you written confirmation that they have, IF they haven't, allow them another 14 days in which to comply and provide the missing documents, if they fail to do so you will report them to the ICO to investigate.

 

If their reply is just as inconclusive then report them anyway, and withhold all future payments, if not done so already..

[Chalkitup]

Thank you Bazooka Boo.

 

I will wait until the full 40 days is up and then do as you have said.

 

In the mean time I have Barclaycard sending me demands for payment plus Mercers plus Resolvecall and now Barclaycard tell me Calders (another part of Mercers I believe) are dealing with the account as well!!!!!!! Oh yes and Barclaycard have told me thay are not going to stop adding £260+ a month in interest even though they have informed me that they realise CCCS stopped my DMP because I am on benefits which do not give me any cash left over each month to pay my creditors!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Bazooka Boo]

If you have that in writing from sharklays then that's another nail in their coffin, send a copy of that to the OFT&TS, and I would probably look at sending a copy to the banking ombudsman, and my Local MP to boot!

[lord_tiger_putin]

Thank you BB .... I will await one more letter from whoever seeking the full amount before I proceed.

 

In my and my wife's case they absolutely refused to terminate the agreement! It is now going on for months after Mercers send their fake DN's and all types of rubbish. Lots of text message from BarclayIdiots that they will start court action, but still no termination!!!

 

It seems that it is their way of doing things by taking their time to terminate!!

 

I assume it is theoretical possible for them to take you to court for only the arrears while the card is active? Anyone know of them actually doing it?

[Chalkitup]

If you have that in writing from sharklays then that's another nail in their coffin, send a copy of that to the OFT&TS, and I would probably look at sending a copy to the banking ombudsman, and my Local MP to boot!

 

I received their latest letter last week ........ I had written to them pointing out that they are still adding £260+ a month interest even though they know I am on benefits that do not cover my priority bills each month plus they know my dmp was halted by CCCS charity as I had no money over each month for creditors (as CCCS pointed out). I have also told them for months in writing that I will not speak on the phone with them as I want everything in writing because things are getting so complicated with the account.

 

Their reply is (NOTE the disgusting way they add the doorstep calling threat inbetween the two paragraphs so using scare tactics on me in the hope I will phone them and be bullied into some repayment plan that I really can not afford at present):-

 

"Our records show that you were with CCCS but they advise that you are unable to meet the agreed payments of £10 a month due to low income. We can discuss an alternative arrangement if you contact our Financial Difficulties Helpline"

 

"Regarding doorstep callers, if Barclaycard or any third party acting on our behalf are unable to establish contact verbally then we can visit your premises to discuss the account. This is not necessary once a repayment arrangement has been agreed"

 

"The next point that you have raised is that the interest to your account is excessive. As CCCS are no longer sending payments, and we have not been able to agree a repayment plan with you directly, (Just how many times do they need telling that I have no money at present ...... even CCCS charity have told them!!!!) interest has been re-instated on your account. We will review this once we have spoken to you regarding repayment options" (More blackmail ..... phone us or we keep adding £260+ a month)

 

I have always responded to their letters in writing so I am not just hiding away from them but they just do not want to understand my situation ........ what the hell can I do ??

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[The Debt Star]

"Regarding doorstep callers, if Barclaycard or any third party acting on our behalf are unable to establish contact verbally then we can visit your premises to discuss the account. This is not necessary once a repayment arrangement has been agreed"

Hi chalkster, hope u r well. Barcrapcard (my nemesis) are talking total ****e as usual. You do not have to make verbal contact at all. Utter bo11ocks. You can insist on communication in writing and, provided yuo are contacatble and responsive to letters, they cannot then harrass you under the Lending Code and the OFT Guidance 2003.

This letter from Bobogosing's Egg thread is useful. Post #46.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276050-Advice-on-EGG-Loan-agreement-please!&p=3146137&highlight=#post3146137

[Chalkitup]

Hello Debt Star,

 

Yes I am ok ..... or as good as can be with all these DCA calls etc.

 

Thank you for the link to letter ........ I will be using some of that when I reply to Barclaycard.

 

Plus I will send it to Fredrickson International as well ......... they have suddenly surfaced again .... but this time they are chasing an Egg account and a Natwest account. Both in dispute of course!!

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Bazooka Boo]

"Regarding doorstep callers, if Barclaycard or any third party acting on our behalf are unable to establish contact verbally then we can visit your premises to discuss the account. This is not necessary once a repayment arrangement has been agreed"

 

And the computer says NO!

How extremely immature of them to threaten you like this, so if they have a debtor who is unable to talk, what do they do then? Not only does this statement admit that they don't abide by the DDA2005 but they have also admitted to ignoring OFT debt collection guidelines,

Let them hang...

[laalinz]

subbing

[Chalkitup]

I think in this case CIU, I would allow them the FULL 40 days for them to comply fully, then I would send them a letter before action (LBA) and in it ask them if they have fully complied with your SAR, if so to give you written confirmation that they have, IF they haven't, allow them another 14 days in which to comply and provide the missing documents, if they fail to do so you will report them to the ICO to investigate.

 

Update ....

 

Sent a letter (not LBA) to Barclaycard asking them to confirm that what they have sent me in response to my SAR is everything they have on me and hence the SAR is now complete.

 

They have replied "I can confirm that we have sent all requested documentation" ........ I sent them the long SAR letter asking for everything I listed which of course included agreements etc.

 

In reply to CCA they sent a blank application form and Conditions of use (neither have any date reference on) and letter saying we can send these now in response to CCA request. Plus up to date T&Cs.

 

In reply to SAR absolutely no agreement / application form has been sent .... either original (which will be a job because I never signed one for this account) or reconstructed.

 

So ...... what do I do know?? ..... Just wait for their next move? They are still adding £270 a month interest which they started readding since early in the year when CCCS stopped my £10 a month DMP to B/C because my benefit is so low I have no money over to pay creditors each month. B/C refuse to stop adding this interest until I phone them and arrange a payment each month ...... I have no spare cash.

 

Thanks

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[The Debt Star]

sorry chalk, have you involved the FOS yet?

[Bazooka Boo]

Well now is the time to report their failure to fully comply with your SAR to the ICO, if indeed they have fully complied to your request, which they have stated they have, then they have nothing in which they can take you to court for, as they do not possess your original agreement, which the SAR will have shown, so you win, they will be unable to take ANY legal action against you in relation to this alleged debt, if they are muddying you CRF then this is a very good time to tell them to remove ALL adverse and incorrect data from it as they have no legal right to do so.

 

IMO there has never been any agreement between you and them, they cannot prove this and state this fact, there is nothing more you need to say to them, unless you wish to thank them for confirming that no agreement has, or was, ever in place between you and them, any reference to any alleged agreement to the contrary will result in them being reported to the ICO and the Police for offences under the fraud act.

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx

[Chalkitup]

Hello Debt Star,

Not involved the FOS yet as I wanted to collect as much ammo as possible against BC.

 

Hello Bazooka Boo,

Just to clear things here ......... I had a BC ordinary card (from approx 16 years ago) then approx 10 years ago BC sent me a priority application to upgrade the card ......... I never signed it or sent it back (I still have it - no prescibed terms etc) but I phoned them and said I would like the upgrade and the card arrived ten days later ....... old card account closed ...... new upgraded card opened ...... nothing signed .......... so am I on safe ground there?

 

They have come up with no original agreements whatsoever in response to CCA or SAR so if they commenced court action and suddenly come up with the very old original agreement from 16 years ago would I have a problem? Other than the ICO would take them to task re their response to my SAR.

 

Owards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[Bazooka Boo]

Hm interesting, I see your dilemma.

That new card, have you still got it, or did you send it back to them? IMO that is the only thing they have that they could use against you in court, that is IF indeed you did send it back to them?