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ccj back to 2004 and a charging order - enforceable?


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Hi all, ok i am first to admit that I have been extremely stupid with money in the past, however i am slowly getting to grips with my various creditors, unfortunately in some cases the debts with CCJs and a couple even have charging orders against my property where i live with my wife.

 

i have just received a letter from one of the DCAs i am dealing with.

it is the 10th letter i have received from them in the past 2 months, and states:

"within the next 14 days we will be writing to other secured creditors and requesting final figures to pay off the charges in their favour"....."we would also intruct a local estate agent to conduct a drive by valuation of your property to confirm its current market value".

 

Firstly, i know i should have fought the charging order, but can they have a charging order on the property without a CCA ? Should i ask them to supply it to confirm the debt is legally enforceable, or will they have it already?

 

Secondly, can they write to other creditors (ie: my mortgage company) to ask for that sort of detail from them ? and what about a "drive by valuation" surely that will tell them nothing as they dont know what the inside of the property is like, and anyone snooping around the property would be tresspassing ?

 

Any help gratefully received.

also, let me know if i am on the wrong forum thread....

 

thanks

 

streetgang

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Hi Streetgang,

 

Your first point is one which I have pondered myself and the conclusion from others on here is that it does not matter if there is no enforceable agreement under the CCA, basically it has gone to far. The opportunity to challenge the legality of the debt was lost when the Judge granted the charging order.

 

There are however some circumstances that you may possibly be able to get this overturned but your chances are very slim indeed, unless you can prove that at the times of hearings you were unable submit a proper defence and even it would be a long hall.

 

The original CCJ would have given you the instructions on what you need to pay and by when, so you may be able to get an order to vary the terms of the Judgement, this is a more likely scenario.

 

As for DCA now chasing I think what they are saying with regard to talking to other creditors is breaking Data Protection laws and some of what they are saying could be bluster to frighten you.

 

I think you need to start making payments in line with the judgements, and then look at how you can vary the terms to make it manageble for yourself.

 

BB

Please note: I am not a lawyer and as such any advice I give is purely from a laymans point of view;-)

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Thanks BB,

 

I just wish i hadnt buried my head in the sand. That said, i am trying to sort things now.

on my first point, i take it you are saying that to get the CCJ and Charging Order they must have presented to the court and judge a properly executed CCA ? and that it is therefore pointless to pursue further?

 

Interested in your views on Data Protection Laws, presumably they would need legal powers to gain this information from 3rd parties ? (do DCAs hold these powers without applying for them from a court? - i know the police do obviously, but would doubt DCAs do....)

Finally, I have set up a £50 standing order to the DCA, an amount they agreed, but they have said they will wish to see this increase in the next six months.

To be honest, the £50 is a stretch, but i wanted to show good faith in making payments. Can they force me to pay more if i can clearly show i couldnt afford to pay (much) more...?

 

many thanks for your advice.

Streetgang

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i take it you are saying that to get the CCJ and Charging Order they must have presented to the court and judge a properly executed CCA ?

 

Nope, it would have been down to you to challenge the enforceability of the agreement in a defnece hearing of the original judgment.

 

Was there a court order outlining the amount you should pay monthly?

has the creditor applied for an Interim Charge at this point?

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Hi Streetgang,

 

The creditor would have gained a judgement un-opposed so to speak through lack of your defence. So the POC could have said anything virtually and the judge would have granted it ----- because you did not contest it. So to answer your question it did not matter if it was an enforceable agreement under the CCA or not.

 

This part about the DPA I am not sure about maybe someone else could advise, but in my view I do not think that a DCA can gain Info in this way. It is your data and as such the DCA would have to ask your permission to use the data in this way !! IMHO.

 

If your payments are what the judge ordered then there is little the DCA can do without an order to vary the terms as I have previously posted. The law works both ways don't forget.

 

BB

Please note: I am not a lawyer and as such any advice I give is purely from a laymans point of view;-)

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Hi all, further to an earlier thread, i would be very grateful if anyone could answer the following....

 

I have a DCA threatening to seek financial details from other companies with interests in my property (namely my mortgage company and 1 other charging order). Note that this DCA has a charging order on property.

 

Are they legally entitled to ask and receive this information from 3rd parties?

i would have hoped not as this is financial information about my interests, and i wouldnt give consent for it to be shared.

Any advice or clarification is welcome.

thanks

Streetgang.

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Thank you, very helpful.

 

I am very grateful for the comment(s) you gave me yesterday regarding this request, but you will recall you said that others would be better placed to give advice on this issue, which is why I posted again.

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Thank you, very helpful.

 

I am very grateful for the comment(s) you gave me yesterday regarding this request, but you will recall you said that others would be better placed to give advice on this issue, which is why I posted again.

 

 

Yeh Hi streetgang,

 

I was trying to bring up your thread to others attention im sure you will get an answer soon.

 

BB

Please note: I am not a lawyer and as such any advice I give is purely from a laymans point of view;-)

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If they have the relevant level of membership of Experian's CAIS then yes they can.

 

It is very likely that they do have the required level of membership

 

When you applied for any credit product it would have said in the t&cs that you gave your permission to share information

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thanks Nicklea, i honestly cant remember if it did or not.

Should I ask the DCA to show they have relevant membership of Experian's CAIS and would the CCA have the stipulated information about giving permission to share the information?

Thanks for your help.

Streetgang

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All credit agreements (well there might be one or two that don't) allow the creditor to share data. This comes under the DPA rather than the CCA.

 

Asking the DCA if they are a member of CAIS won't help much. Either they are - in which case they will get the information. Or they aren't in which case they won't get the information.

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Hello Streetgang,

 

Do you have a copy of your credit agreement and the terms and conditions, if you do you will be able to see what you signed ;-)

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

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afraid not, it was all so long ago, >8 yrs that i dont recall. i stopped paying the cards in about 2005 when i couldnt afford to, and buried my head (stupidly) rather than face it.....much to my shame, but then easy to say that in retrospect.

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Hi Streetgang - yes, creditors can share information where there is a credit agreement under section 35 of the data protection act.

 

Basically, if a creditor has commenced, or looking to commence litigation, your other creditors must provide the requested info (arrears, balance, redemption amount etc...)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks Deshaine, should i therefore ask the DCA to supply a copy of the credit agreement to validate that they can ask for this information lawfully?

Earlier comments i have had suggested that the company must have had a copy of the original credit agreement to get the charging order in the first place.

 

All help gratefully received.

Streetgang

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Yes Streetgang ask them for CCA. You may well have given your permission when and IF you signed the original agreement. However they will have to produce this to a) show you gave that permission and b) prove there is an enforceable agreement. If they haven't got one they cannot process your personal data or pursue you for the debt.

They may well have a got a CO without if you never defended and just got a ccj against you and a then a fast CO. If there is no CCA you will need to try and get the CCJ and then CO overturned. A hard job but not impossible.

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  • 2 years later...

Hi All, i had a credit card which i took out in 2000, due to my own stupidity i let my finances get completely out of control and the account was defaulted in july 2004. it was subsequently bought by a debt agency and they applied and got a charging order on my property.

 

i have really tried hard to get my credit score sorted out and everything is being paid back, or so i thought.

 

anyway, my question is, is this debt still enforceable?, the default was in 2004 and this is now off my credit file, it is however subject to a charging order so not sure if the 6 yr statute still stands ?

 

note i havent paid anything on the account since 6 yrs ago.

 

thanks for your advice.

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sadly yes. ccj's/co's dont expire

all they are doing is waiting for a sale i assume.

 

have you got all the paperwork?

and where you aware it was taking place at the time...just didn't defend it.

 

not sure on the co, if you can get it overturned, ccj's alone...yes.

once past 6yrs they have to go back to court to enforce it, but not sure on co...

if might just be they are awaiting your house safe [if ever] to get their pound of flesh.

 

have a read of a few threads here or use our search in the blue bar for charging order.

 

others will be along soon with a better knowledge.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks D, yes unfortunately I just didnt defend it....stuck my head in the sand and hoped it would go away, which it didnt of course.

 

We are hoping to move house in the next yr or so so they may get their pound of flesh then.

 

Sounds like i need to start paying them back, albeit probably no more than £30 to £50 a month as i aready have a lot of outgoings.

 

Thanks again, much appreciated.

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have you got all the paperwork?

 

what was the ccj judgement?

 

i'm wondering if you might be able to challenge the whole thing as it was a DCA i bet they never had an agreement or anything.

esp if you never even ack'ed it in 6yrs, you might be able to.

 

not really my game

you'll have to wait for one of the knowledgeble ones to pick up the the thread later or monday,

sit tight for now dont do anything.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Dear Forum, I have been doing some search on this site and the wider web for information on Charging Orders on a previously unsecured debt.

 

The original debt, from a credit card, was in my sole name.

The mortgage on my property is jointly owned by my wife and I,

The DCA got a CCJ on my property back in 2004,

The DCA then got a charging order on my property,

I didnt challenge the charging order at that time buried my head in the sand i am afraid :( ,

I have numerous old debts, the vast majority are being paid back with regular payments,

The debt in question above I completely forgot about and havent paid anything on since 2004,

I am happy to start a repayment plan dont want to acknowledge the debt unless i have to incase it is statue barred.

 

I think it probably cant be statue barred as it already has a CCJ and CO on it.

My question is, after looking at numerous sites an posts, it seems that the charging order can only be a restriction if the original debt was in a sole name and the mortgage is joint. All we need to do is ensure our solicitor lets the DCA know 14 days before the sale goes through ?

 

Does anyone know if this is true ?

 

We are thinking of selling our house and dont want the DCA get their money if it can be helped.

 

If they cant, ie: because the mortgage is joint, then i will start a repayment plan.

 

Many thanks for all your advice.

Streetgang

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Firstly, you need to ENSURE you use a solicitor who knows the law on charging orders.

 

All they have to do is give the creditor written notice of the impending sale 14 days before completion and the purchasers solicitor an undertaking that the CO will fall away on completion.

 

The creditor would have to move at the spped of light to start the cogs turning and apply to a court for thier share. This is very rare indeed.

 

So, sale goes through, you have the proceeds, DCA gets nothing and charging order drops away.......:D

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