DVLA taking me to court ! HELP NEEDED !

[rudy691]

This is a sort of continuation of this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/259016-urgent-help-needed-dvla.html

 

Rather a result than a continuation though.

 

Here goes:

 

 

in August 2008 ive sold my car, sent off the V5 to dvla as I always did, and went on with my life. after that I've changed houses. and that's when the problems started apparently.

DVLA never received my V5 and they were sending letters to my old address for next couple of weeks. Then the court case happened (which I wasnt aware of), got fined and only in May I heard about the proceedings as I've received letter from bailiffs telling me to pay up or they gonna take my goods. had some advice after this and went to court to make a statuatory declaration that I didnt know about the proceedings. Fine was cancelled and I've been notified by court that DVLA have my new details now so they might still take me to court.

 

Which they did today ! I was sent court summons today, with the court case date and everything else, accusing me that I didn't inform dvla about the the change of keeper (which I did send the V5 to them).

 

Don't really know how to deal with this now....

 

would like some advice here

 

i can say that I dont have a proof of posting V5 as you never send it recorded. I have a selling agreement though - signed and dated by me and the guy who bought it from me, with his address on it.

 

Documents sent to me:

 

Edited July 3, 2010 by rudy691

[Raykay]

Check through this thread, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/214078-being-taken-court-supposedly.html?highlight=interpretation

similar circumstances to your case.

Posts 8,9 & 10 are the important ones in repect of application of the interpretation act and the non-application of the so called 'legal' DVLA letter.

[lonerider]

Hi

 

Don’t feel intimidated by the DVLA, it is well known that their system is falling down and does not work.

If you sent the V5 and you follow the advice you will win. When you do win make sure you post your claim number

 

Need to ask you some questions:

 

What date did you sell your car?

what date did you send of your V5?

what date did you move to new house?

You dont need proof of posting!

 

I Have a freedom of Information Request I made to the DVLA trying to find out if they lose mail. DVLA confirmed that items do go missing. I am happy to send this to you for your defence. I am sure members on here will provide you with info. If you make contact with bankchaser35they may be willing to provide you with their claim number. bankchaser won because they basically the Magistrate just asked the person to swear that they posted the document.

 

Remember, as stated on my case, Claim No: 9BR0829 Horsham Court, there is no statuary requirement for you to chase or phone the DVLA if you do not receive an acknowledgement letter.

 

Make sure you have a copy of the

The Interpretation Act 1978 Act states

 

Make sure you have a copy of the

The post Office Act states

“if something is correctly addressed and pre-paid correctly (stamped) then it is deemed to have been delivered 2 days later (5 days for second class"

 

............................................................................................................................

 

I take on the DVLA and WIN. Watch my story here. If you ever send documents to the DVLA, there is a good chance they will lose them.

Edited June 19, 2010 by lonerider
update

[rudy691]

hi lonerider

 

car was sold on the 21/08/2009 and a couple of weeks before that I've moved out from my old place. 3 days before i sold my car - i've registered another one in my name too ! and 2 after that so they had my details.

i've send off the V5 1-2 days after I've sold the car.

 

also - if the car was sold on the 21/08/2009 so how come they charged me a week later ??? on the court papers it says that the charge happened on the 01/09/2009.

[lonerider]

Hi Rudy

 

Just need you to provide me with solid dates please. Its very important that you know your times, dates and facts. Courts need to make sure you are sure. You hesitate you lose..

 

On Friday August 21st 2009 you sold your car - is this correct?

On Sunday August 23rd you sent your V5 off - is that correct?

On Friday August 7th you moved out of your house - is that correct?

 

So, it seems the new keeper informed the DVLA that he/she is now the new owner from September 1st 2009, however according to the DVLA you was still showing registered to this vehicle because they did not get your V5 - you are charged on 01/09/09 from when the new keeper took over - make sense?

 

Had the DVLA not lost or misplaced your V5 the DVLA would of been notified, however by all counts you are being charged 1 week after you have sold your car.

 

The DVLA is making an allegation that you did not send your V5 form as required by law. A few things are telling me to challenge this:

 

(1) It is common knowledge it can take up to 3 weeks before records are updated at the DVLA .

 

(2) To be summoned after only 1 week after you sent your V5 is not reasonable.

 

(3) Interpretations Act & Post Office Act. look for a heading called References to service by post. You need to understand this law word by word. This will be you gun.

 

(4) You need to prove that the DVLA lose and misplace Mail. I have a Freedom of Information Request confirming they lose Mail. If you need it PM me.

 

(5) Believe in your self. The DVLA are a bunch of idiots. Remember the DVLA is a private company like a Rogue DCA, the only difference is that they are an Agency working for the goverment.

 

..........................................................................................................................................................................................

 

I took on the DVLA and WON - Read my story as told by Watchdog on 27th May 2010 - Please post your DVLA complaints on this page aswell.

[Raykay]

Be careful about questioning the short time between 23rd August and 1st September, it could be a bit of a red herring.

 

The date of the offence on the summons - 1st September - may be the date that the new keeper used as the date of the change of keeper.

 

It could be quite some time later that DVLA actually started proceedings for the offence (that they claim!) occured on 1st September.

[rudy691]

hi guys

 

i can't remember the exact when I moved out of the old address, but I have my old council tax bill and the date of issue is 14/08/2009 - so I couldn't be at my old adress anyway. if 23rd was Sunday - I must have send it off on Monday 24th of August.

 

raykay - whenever they've started the procedure, they still charged on the 01/09/2009 which doesnt seem fair to me in the first place.

 

I still have the signed selling agreement with the details of the guy I've sold it to - will this be any help ?

 

I'm seriously crapping my pants about this - I've never been to court (even on that stat decl - i was crapping myself :/ )

 

 

EDIT: lonerider - if you think I will need that Freedom Of Information Request - by all means, send it to me mate.

 

 

 

BTW one more thing - if I win this case, can I apply for the return of costs ? like loosing one day in work and petrol costs ? It's almost 40 miles one-way drive for me !

[lonerider]

Rudy691

 

relax mate:

read this and do the last bit

 

To take the legal arguments a step further:

1. The Universal Postal Union (of which Britain is a signatory) makes it clear that, in the UK, post becomes the property of the recipient at the moment it is committed to the Royal Mail.

 

2. The Interpretation Act 1997 s7 makes it clear that a document sent by first-class post is deemed served. If the sender has proof of posting (or a witness), the DVLA's letter of acknowledgement is a mere distraction.

 

if you got no proof of sending the V5, you can swear an affidavit that the V5 was completed and posted. Of the cases that have been challenged as above, I'm not aware of any the DVLA has taken as far as a magistrates' court.

[rudy691]

so what is my next step then ? should I fill in the "not guilty" part and send it off to the adress on the document ? thanks for all the advice upto now

[lonerider]

Rudy691

 

Ask your self this question!

 

Did you send your V5 off to the DVLA as requested by law?

 

If you did, then how can you be guilty.

The DVLA are nothing to worry about, they are like Rogue Clampers.

 

You need to make sure you are clear 100% in your head dates/times when you sent of the form.

[rudy691]

I know that I send it off - I'm just asking what is the procedure now

[Raykay]

raykay - whenever they've started the procedure, they still charged on the 01/09/2009 which doesnt seem fair to me in the first place.

 

The 1st September is apparently the date,according to their records, that the new keeper aquired the vehicle.

 

The summons is for failing to forthwith deliver notification of the change of keeper, which means that (they claim) you failed to notify them of the change that took place on 1st September, it could be much later that they actually started proceedings.

[rudy691]

sending off the "not guilty plea"

 

will keep you updated on this.

[rudy691]

send you a PM lonerider.

 

thanks

[buzby]

For clarification - to b e deemed valid, a Change of RK REQUIRES the docuyment to be signed by all parties, you and the new Keeper with HIS name and address and the date of sale.

 

It is no longer sufficient to sign it yourself with you writing in the details of the new keeper. I've heard tales that without the form being fully compliant, it is treated as a non-notification and proceedings arise.

 

Your wintnss to this will be a statement from the new keeper, confirming that he did indeed sign the form on X date, and entered his details. It provides you with additional ammo that you were not breaking the CR connection.

 

Also, if the DVLA did not get the V5C from you, did the new owner not tell you he was still awaiting his V5 at any stage? If he ended up paying for another this doesn't look good for backing up your story.

[rudy691]

it was signed by both of us - its not the first car I sold mate

 

he didnt contact me at all, week after he bought he aplied for a new V5C.

 

"If he ended up paying for another this doesn't look good for backing up your story." - and where is my fault in this ? I've done my bit, which was to send off the V5 and that's all I can do from my side mate.

[buzby]

Not that you are at fault - simply that it would be expected that the Buyer would come back to you with a complaint that he had no replacement documents. As he's signed the V5C, you'll need his written statement confirming that he did, as this adds further corroboration that your docoments, when submitted were in order.

[rudy691]

what if I have no way to contact him ?

 

as lonerider said - the interpretation act and post office act should do the trick.

 

im getting confused about this now.

[Raykay]

Also, if the DVLA did not get the V5C from you, did the new owner not tell you he was still awaiting his V5 at any stage? If he ended up paying for another this doesn't look good for backing up your story.

 

If they new owner sent the V5C/2, which the OP would have given him, with the V62 form for a new V5C then there is no charge and no real reason to contact the old keeper.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Raykay

[buzby]

No, the Interpretations Act is sound, however IF you CAN contact the new RK and add his written statement, it will make your defence unassailable. If you have corroboration the paperwork was correctly completed, that confirms the form was completed, and the Interpretations Act assists in supporting its delivery was effective. (Belt & Braces defence, if you like).

[buzby]

If they new owner sent the V5C/2, which the OP would have given him, with the V62 form for a new V5C the there is no charge and no real reason to contact the old keeper.

 

True, but then this disadvantages the OP as it could be implied that no attempt was made to comply with the rules. On the vehicles I have acquired and not got a V5C speedily, a call to the previous owner usually sorted the problem (as a reminder!).

[rudy691]

if I knew about all this, I wouldn't move out from my old address

[buzby]

 

I can send you my 'Bring Back The Horse' button badge!

[rudy691]

so do I have any realistic chance to win this ? if I would knew about the letters from DVLA to my old address, it wouldn't get to the court stage.

[rudy691]

should I take this aproach:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/249629-dvla-failure-notify-new.html

 

and send dvla something like the letter in first post ? will that cease the court action and would it be even worse if they know my defence ?