We have so much debt, it seems only hope is selling house!

[Tingy]

Unfortunately Sainsburys were entitled to cash the cheque. For you to be able to claim they've accepted F&F you would have to have it backed up in a letter as well.

 

Regarding your second point they have not breached the DPA 1998.

 

Sorry, no good news, but you know where you stand!

[wilchil64]

Unfortunately Sainsburys were entitled to cash the cheque. For you to be able to claim they've accepted F&F you would have to have it backed up in a letter as well.

Regarding your second point they have not breached the DPA 1998.

Sorry, no good news, but you know where you stand!

 

So, DCAs can announce to the entire world that you are in financial trouble and that's ok?

[Undercover-Elsa]

The ICO wouldn't act, but it does contravene the OFT guidelines:

 

acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either

deliberately or through lack of care, for example, by not putting

correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox,

thereby running the risk that it could be read by third parties.

 

Viewable contents are, in my view, as bad as unsealed.

 

Also, the (little known) Credit Services Association guidelines on Debt Collection Letters (in consultation with the OFT) makes very interesting and useful reading. Keep it by the letterbox for future reference

 

The CSA is the industries' own regulatory body and they have a handy complaint form...

Here's one I prepared earlier... ;-)

Elsa x

 

 

CSA-complaint-form.pdf

debt-letters-guidance.pdf

[Neeta]

Unfortunately Sainsburys were entitled to cash the cheque. For you to be able to claim they've accepted F&F you would have to have it backed up in a letter as well.

 

Not sure what you mean Tingy, I wrote to them (twice now) explaining the financial problems we are having, and that I had consulted CCCS and worked out a pro rata payment for each of my creditors and that the cheque I was sending was for that amount, encashment of which would be taken as acceptance etc etc. After the first letter and cashing of cheque, I received a letter from Sainsburys saying thanks for you letter but we wont accept without full I&E so I sent another (this time to Albion since they now appear to be (not) dealing with it) , pointing out the terms of my first and adding 'Please note I have previously made this offer to Sainsburys and although they cashed the cheque, after I had stated the same as above, encashment will be taken as acceptance of my offer, they wrote to me and asked for a full breakdown of income and expenses.

Other creditors have accepted my realistic offer. I am making a genuine attempt to sort this out and I am sure you are aware that there would be little point in offering an amount I cannot maintain. I feel any demands for more detailed personal information are unnecessarily intrusive when I have already verified the figures with CCCS'

 

I found most of the wording for my letters in this thread or on this site somewhere btw

 

But all that said I do appear to be in a similar situation to wilchil with Sainsburys/Albion and it seems I'll have to send the I&E but I'll be beggard if Im sending a full list of creditors.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Neeta

 

1. I think Tingy may have confused offer of payments with F&Fs.

 

2. If you send an I&E I don't see any harm in giving a list of alleged creditors and stating which have accepted your reasonable offers. they can see this list on your credit file anyway.

 

3. It's wise to deal with the OC rather than the DCA as far as possible, especially when sending the above, although complaints can go to both; remember that the OC is responsible for their agent's misdemeanors.

 

x

 

vic

[wilchil64]

Thanks V. When I sent the National Debtline income and expenditure form to them it includes details of creditors and amount owed. But most of these scumbags also ask for proof of income and proof of mortgage payments - why would they be entitled to those? I think that is a huge invasion of privacy.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi wilchil

 

I agree, but it's all a matter of tactics not principle.

 

I send the National Debtline I&E that includes other creditors to OCs with the token offer; I don't send it to DCAs.

 

I have only once provided further evidence to an OC who is also my mortgage holder.

 

x

 

v

[toymaker1]

Due to my husband being made redundant several times over past ten years and now working contracts, we now have so much debt that I don't know what to do.

Can I take my 2 cats plus another we look after for a friend and our tropical fish into rented accommodation? I have no one who could look after them for me (the cats) and won't give them away.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I work part time in the evening but can't work during the day as I home educate my daughter.

 

 

I have cut down on music lessons for my dd to fortnightly instead of weekly. I am considering selling my car but then can't get to music or drama with my dd.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know what else to do.[/size][/font][/color]

 

 

 

One personal loan fo 7 years of £10,500 plus interest.

One personal loan don't know how much it is but think there are 3 years to go at £109 per month.

One credit card with £10,500 on it, 0% interest for 12 months

One credit card with £4000 (just transferred) with low interest of 5.9% for life of balance transfer

Catalogue - £665.

HP for car, only paid 1.5 years, have at least 4 to go, at £296 per month.

HP for TV not sure how long but will be about £1000 plus interest.

HP for furniture, only owe £150, will be paid off in about 4 or 5 months I think.

 

What a nightmare!

 

Any help or advice appreciated!

 

Is this a wind up?

 

I couldn't afford to keep 3 cats and some tropical fish

I cant afford weekly music lessons

That sounds like a lot of money to me.

Lose the pets and the music lessons until you can afford to pay them out of your income.

I know that might sound harsh, but life is harsh.

If you cant afford it, dont do it.

Sorry,but that's reality when you are in debt (like I am)

[wilchil64]

Is this a wind up?

I couldn't afford to keep 3 cats and some tropical fish

I cant afford weekly music lessons

That sounds like a lot of money to me.

Lose the pets and the music lessons until you can afford to pay them out of your income.

I know that might sound harsh, but life is harsh.

If you cant afford it, dont do it.

Sorry,but that's reality when you are in debt (like I am)

 

One cat has gone, tropical fish don't really cost anything and we've cancelled the music lessons. Not prepared to give away my pets, when I took them on, it was for their whole lives! I buy cheap pet food.

 

I presume you don't have pets or children?!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Take no notice, Wilchil,

Pets are an essential as far as I'm concerned. I'm virtually houseband, and disabled and if I didn't have my (numerous!) pets to give me a reason to get up and go out in the fresh air, I'd probably be gibbering in a corner by now.

CAG is by definition non judgemental. Having been with you all along this journey, and seen you go from total despair to taking control and attempting to sort your life out, such comments are not appropriate on this thread. Ignore.

 

Elsa x

[toymaker1]

One cat has gone, tropical fish don't really cost anything and we've cancelled the music lessons. Not prepared to give away my pets, when I took them on, it was for their whole lives! I buy cheap pet food.

 

I presume you don't have pets or children?!

 

I have got children, but I cant afford pets - even though I love dogs - I just could not afford the costs - it's not just the food, it's the vet costs, and many other costs.

I cant afford music lessons.

Have you tried making a spreadsheet on your computor to see your weekly outgoings and incomings.?

It can be a bit difficult to do, but once you have done it it is incredibly useful. You can check everything each week, and postpone some payments till the next week, or change the amount.

Temporarily cut out even little things, like newspapers, coffee, visits to the pub - its amazing how much you can save when you are desperate.

I speak from my own experience.

Try to keep a clear head, and accept the fact that you are the only one who is going to solve your debt problems.

Write a letter to each creditor, offering a fixed amount each month, and request that they suspend the interest. send them a list of your income/expenditure.

Do evertyhing by letter no phone calls to credit card companies.

Best of luck.

If

[wilchil64]

Take no notice, Wilchil,

Pets are an essential as far as I'm concerned. I'm virtually houseband, and disabled and if I didn't have my (numerous!) pets to give me a reason to get up and go out in the fresh air, I'd probably be gibbering in a corner by now.

CAG is by definition non judgemental. Having been with you all along this journey, and seen you go from total despair to taking control and attempting to sort your life out, such comments are not appropriate on this thread. Ignore.

Elsa x

 

Thanks Elsa. I love my pets too, the tropical fish have a calming effect on me and I suffer with depression and anxiety, so find that very valuable. The same goes for my cats, I love them and can't live without them. Also my daughter loves them and would be so unhappy if they had to go. The only cat that went was my friend's, she now has taken him home.

We have cut back on so many things. The music lessons went because my daughter was no longer interested. We no longer have takeaways or eat out or go to the pub or drink alcohol except on very special occasions or if someone brings a bottle of wine with them - still have a bottle I was given for Christmas. I have shopped around for all insurances, etc and really think we are trying our hardest to gain control of our finances. I didn't expect to be judged here.

[wilchil64]

I have got children, but I cant afford pets - even though I love dogs - I just could not afford the costs - it's not just the food, it's the vet costs, and many other costs.

I cant afford music lessons.

Have you tried making a spreadsheet on your computor to see your weekly outgoings and incomings.?

It can be a bit difficult to do, but once you have done it it is incredibly useful. You can check everything each week, and postpone some payments till the next week, or change the amount.

Temporarily cut out even little things, like newspapers, coffee, visits to the pub - its amazing how much you can save when you are desperate.

I speak from my own experience.

Try to keep a clear head, and accept the fact that you are the only one who is going to solve your debt problems.

Write a letter to each creditor, offering a fixed amount each month, and request that they suspend the interest. send them a list of your income/expenditure.

Do evertyhing by letter no phone calls to credit card companies.

Best of luck.

If

 

Toymaker, how much of the thread have you read? I made a spreadsheet and filled in CCCS's budget sheet at the beginning of the thread. I don't expect anyone to pay for our debt, just trying to get on with our life without lying awake at night and panic attacks.

We have no newspapers, no pub visits, no coffees out ... I buy value ranges all the time and have searched the internet for tips on cheap meals and special offers.

I'm sorry, but it is clear you haven't read through my thread - all the things you have suggested I have done a long time ago! Thanks for your advice though.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi both

 

One DCA didn't flinch when I offered to sell a kidney to meet his ridiculous demands.

 

Bandits behaviour towards us is a collective problem, no matter how well-off we might appear when we first hit difficulties.

 

Wichill's thread is an informative narrative of how CAG helps folk move from despair to fighting back; and what's morally wrong with cats, fish and music in the 6th richest economy in the world? As 'Diamond Barclays Bob', said, "we've got to stop apologising".

 

Love to all in the struggle

 

vic

[victoria_siempre]

Soz guys

 

posts crossed

 

x

 

v

[toymaker1]

Thanks Elsa. I love my pets too, the tropical fish have a calming effect on me and I suffer with depression and anxiety, so find that very valuable. The same goes for my cats, I love them and can't live without them. Also my daughter loves them and would be so unhappy if they had to go. The only cat that went was my friend's, she now has taken him home.

We have cut back on so many things. The music lessons went because my daughter was no longer interested. We no longer have takeaways or eat out or go to the pub or drink alcohol except on very special occasions or if someone brings a bottle of wine with them - still have a bottle I was given for Christmas. I have shopped around for all insurances, etc and really think we are trying our hardest to gain control of our finances. I didn't expect to be judged here.

 

I'm not trying to judge you. I am simply expressing my own opinion, based upon my own experience. I also am up to my neck in debt. It wont help you get out of debt by just sympathisinmg with your predicament. I know myself how difficult it is being in debt.

All I am saying, is that you have to be ruthless with yourself, at least until you ease your debt problem. And it's tough. But if you find yourself evicted from your home, no one will care.

You must take small but definite steps to cut down on expenditure. There is no magic wand. You have just got to get on with it. I am in a similar situation. Just try to be positive.

[toymaker1]

Toymaker, how much of the thread have you read? I made a spreadsheet and filled in CCCS's budget sheet at the beginning of the thread. I don't expect anyone to pay for our debt, just trying to get on with our life without lying awake at night and panic attacks.

We have no newspapers, no pub visits, no coffees out ... I buy value ranges all the time and have searched the internet for tips on cheap meals and special offers.

I'm sorry, but it is clear you haven't read through my thread - all the things you have suggested I have done a long time ago! Thanks for your advice though.

 

I havent read your thread from the beginning. I was just responding to a post where you were saying you didn't know what to do next, and were sounding desperate.

You say you have already made a spreadsheet. Well that is excellent. I look at my own spreadsheet every day, and cross check it with my bank account and what is due to go out over the next week etc. I find it makes a difference.

I am not a saint. I just responded to your post.

[PriorityOne]

I've just noticed your thread, so have popped in....

 

Am I right in thinking that you've made offers of £1 to all of your creditors but they haven't accepted this arrangement? It doesn't matter.... pay it anyway and keep on paying it no matter what.

 

Have you sent CCA requests to each of your creditors? You can do this at any time and are perfectly within your rights to do so. A CCA request goes a long way to protect you from legal action and also lets you know (eventually) the kind of docs. that each creditor is hoping to rely upon to enforce payment. If there's no CCA and you've maintained token payments for example, then there's no point in creditros trying for a CCJ (county court judgement) because you'll have a paper trail showing that you're trying your best.

 

Are all of your accounts still with original creditors? If not, which DCAs are chasing you.... and finally, how old are each of these acounts please?

 

[Mum2Four]

Hi wilchil64

 

I think this whole thread is proof that CAG helps people, you have gone from desperation to being a lot more 'in control' of your debt situation.

 

We also considered trying to sell our house initially when things got really bad, luckily there were people on-hand to advise us that the chance of 'losing the house' which was our main worry was actually fairly unlikely given the debts are all in my name and not my husband's and we have four children under the age of 16, add to that the fact that although I owe a lot overall (30K) the most I owe to an individual creditor is around £6000 the rest being much less.

 

Most of the advice on here is good and constructive and while I realise that poster meant well it's one thing suggesting you don't get animals when you are in a financial state but to suggest getting rid of those you already have is a little uncalled for! Most people are sensible enough once they get to the 'oh no, we are in a financial mess' stage to realise that there have to be cutbacks. We didn't have an extravagant lifestyle anyway but have still cut back a lot, and to be honest I don't miss being able to spend what I don't have. If I don't have the money we go without. As long as we can pay the bills and afford food everyone's happy. They love homecooked food, which is just as well as that's all they get, I am constantly baking and cooking. Sometimes it's hard, having no spare money, but the children understand we can't go on holiday like their friends do, it's one of those things. Hopefully all this will make them careful with money when they get older, and away from those evil credit cards!

 

When we first visited the CAB in a state of despair (before discovering these forums) we asked lots of questions and soon realised although things were bad they could be worse and most things we had worried about we had no need, as any action taken by the creditors would be 'way down the line'. We changed our bank account to a basic one with another bank early on as we hadn't realised the need for an 'umbrella' account, some of my creditors were linked to our then bank account.

 

Discovering CAG has been a real lifeline for me, I have a huge file full of paperwork but I know where everything is relating to each creditor/ DCA, all have been CCA'd, all are getting their token payments and have done from the start. I can't do more than that.

 

I can tell from your posts that things are slowly improving, not as desperate as in the beginning. I know it takes time - I am only 3 years into it and still have days where it all gets too much, but I know I am doing my best and that's all I can do, and the same goes for you. Be strong, you are definitely not alone!

[wilchil64]

Thanks. The next step for us is CCA'ing the older creditors. We have lots of files with all the paperwork so we can find everything we need to. We are sending token payments to all creditors. We also changed our bank account early on so that we could claw our way out of our overdraft.

 

Yes, before realising we could no longer meet the minimum payments and finding this forum we were burying our heads in the sand, but now we watch every penny we spend and are not extravagant.

 

I appreciate helpful comments but think it would be more constructive to read the whole thread before suggesting obvious moves that we made when we first started this journey. I felt attacked, which I didn't expect here. It doesn't pay to be too open about the situation, it seems. Yes, I am hurt, because I know how hard we have tried to change things, how many sleepless nights I've had, worrying about every penny I've spent, thinking where else I could cut back ...

[victoria_siempre]

Hi wilchill

 

Mum is right.

 

It was a thoughtless comment and forget about it. On balance, CAG is good, CAg is great.

 

love as always

 

vic

[wilchil64]

Thanks Vic.

[Bigdebtor]

Wilchil

 

I've been away for a very extravagent weekend - spent all of £30 on petrol, £6 on wine and £12 on flowers (both for our weekend hosts - why are flowers more expensive than booze? ) -s taying with friends for a few days - first break away from home for as long as I can remember (sorry to all DCA's and their friends who think I should have put this £48 in their direction:roll:) - but the difference in my wife, even after such a short break, is worth every penny!

 

Glad to see you've had the usual sensible advice from Elsa - these documents are GREAT- Thanks Elsa! - along with much welcome support from Vic and most (not all:-o) others. Also delighted to see PriorityOne dropping by.

 

From memory P1 is a great proponent of CUPTR 2008 letters - so not sure why weaker CCA letters are being suggested?

 

I have recently put together a lot of different bits into one word document from which I just edit out bits that don't apply. I have reproduced this below - use or ignore as you think appropriate:

 

Dear Sirs

 

Ref:− Your letter of XX January 2011. Your Ref xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company

 

I refer to your letter dated dd/mm/yy and now formally request, under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (specifically regulations 5 and 6) and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on debt collection that you confirm whether you currently hold or have ever held a properly Executed Credit Agreement pertaining to the above account and if so please forward a copy to me by return.

If YOU DO NOT have a signed, properly executed Consumer Credit Act Agreement pertaining to myself, then I require written confirmation by return (CPUTR 2008 reg 5 and 6).

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with such a request.

Also, since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that you supply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for the above referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

In summary, I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE I CORRESPOND FURTHER :

1.True copy of original credit agreement

2.Statement of account

3.Copy of the executed deed of assignment from the original creditor

4.Fair Processing Notice.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Further to the above, please ensure that any contact by yourselves or any agent or associated company or organisation is made in writing only to the above address or by e-mail. telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and viewed as harassment. Continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

As this account is now in dispute, I would also draw your attention to The Banking Code section 13.6:-

We may give information to the Credit Reference Agencies about personal debts you owe us if:

·The Amount Owed is Not in Dispute.

The Office of Fair Trading provided a Code of Guidance that is in relation to Debt Collection: OFT 664 Response to consultation paper and final guidance on unfair business practices dated July 2003

Deceptive and/or Unfair Methods-

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:-

k. Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt.

If you continue in your pursuance of this account I will have no other alternative than to report you to both The Information Commissioner and The Office of Fair Trading (OFT). Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act.

 

If you do not understand what this means then I would recommend you seek appropriate independent legal advice.

 

Yours faithfully

Finally, I have been thinking of this issue of your cheques just getting banked and your accompanying conditions or proposals being ignored.

 

What might be a good idea is to do a separate sheet stating:

 

PLEASE ONLY DETACH THIS CHEQUE NUMBER XXXXX for £1,00 dated XX February 2011 from this sheet IF YOU ACCEPT THE FOLLOWING PROPOSALS:

 

1. x.x

2. xx

3. xx

 

OTHERWISE PLEASE RETURN THIS SHEET TOGETHER WITH THIS CHEQUE IMMEDIATELY TO :

 

Mrs W Ilchill

Great Big House

7th Heaven

Debtors Row

Penury

Nofunnow

IM1 UR2

 

Leave a space above the "otherwise" and GLUE and STAPLE the cheque to the paper. Put this whole thing into an envelope marked: Attached cheque must only be banked if all accompanying conditions and proposals are accepted by you.

 

Put this envelope inside another one along with your accompanying letter. Photocopy the lot and get proof of posting (FOC at any Post Office).

 

They might still ignore your proposals and bank the cheque (not sure why Toymaker thinks they're entitled to do so in any case?) - but by God they CANNOT claim they did not see them!

 

Hope there's at least something in all of this that you find helpful, amusing, uplifting - or all of the above!

 

BD:-)

[wilchil64]

Hope you had good hols BD!

 

Thanks for the letter and the ideas re. them cashing our cheques! :lol:

 

As mentioned above, most debts are post 2007 but a couple are 2007 or earlier so will check through yr letter, take out inappropriate bits and send something off to them. I've been putting this off long enough ...

[Bigdebtor]

W

 

I'm not totally clear when/if a CCA letter should be used instead of the above CPUTR version - and any differences needed for pre or post 2007 agreements (mine are all a lot older than 2007). Hopefully P1 will drop by again and advise us on when either should be used.

 

BD

 

PS - Sorry - just realised I had left your home address in the above sample letter - hope life is good in 7th Heaven!