We have so much debt, it seems only hope is selling house!

[wilchil64]

Another letter received today, this time from Sainsburys Bank.

 

It was sent to both of us, identical letters. I've attached it as pdf. The charge was 25 pounds, btw.

 

These are the guys where the monthly payments was just over 160 quid and I was sending them 140 odd quid and they weren't happy. They said they'd review it but only with a financial statement. I then sent a letter saying sorry the payment was too high, had to recalculate owing to unexpected costs and can now only afford 40 quid (see advice above). That was sent 31 aug and banked, as were the other cheques.

 

What do you suggest? Carry on or stop payments? Nice letter or stinky letter? :

 

Thanks!

copy sains loan rcvd 160910.PDF

[Bigdebtor]

Wilchil

 

I would write saying something like.

 

Your letter advises to contact you ASAP if we are in financial difficullties. We did so first on X when, on the advice of CCCS, we enclosed cheque no XX for £140 sent in good faith together with our proposals which your action in accepting the cheque led us to believe you had accepted. Most recently you accepted cheque no XX for £40 on similar conditions.

 

We note you have now imposed an unfair charge of £25 which is in conflict with OFT guidelines on treating those in financial difficulties fairly and with consideration. Unless you confirm by return that you will waive this recent unfair and unexpected charge and re-instate your acceptance of our proposals then we shall have no option but to suspend all further payments to you pending consideration by your senior management of our current financial position..

 

Please do not telephone or schedule a visit to our home to discuss this or any other matter. We shall only communicate with you in writing on this matter and would ask you once again to consider our situation more sympathetically - as your actions in accepting these X cheques had made us think you had done and as other creditors have done.

 

Yours etc.

 

Copy it to Sainsbury's CEO along with copie sof all the recent correspondence.

 

Good luck

 

BD

 

PS - If you're really lucky you'll get a dodgy DN in return. That would e an early Xmas!

[wilchil64]

Nice one! Will do. Thanks.

[wilchil64]

I'm struggling with up to date info here - does anyone know the chairman of sainsbury - some sites say David Tyler, some say Roger Matthews? Has anyone dealt with them and know for definite?

 

Thanks.

[Bigdebtor]

W

 

I would write to the CEO or MD of Sainsbury's - not the Chairman (unless he is executive chairman). Why not just ring Sainsbury's HO and ask who the CEO or MD is.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Thanks, will do.

 

Forgot to update re. cheque for Santander cards - they had banked it so I was unable to cancel it.

[Bigdebtor]

OK - if they are still banking cheques then it weakens any case they have if they were ever to take you to court.

 

Are still sending monthly statements, charging interst and charges?

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Yes, last statement was dated 16th Aug and they had applied a default charge of £12. They are not applying interest yet. (Think it is a 0% interest on balance transfer for 12 months or something, but thought tbh that would no longer apply if in arrears.)

 

Btw CEO of Sainsos is JustinKing.

[Bigdebtor]

I think they'll be due a similar letter to Sainsbury then - still banking your cheques but not honouring your agreement re charges etc. It's just a battle of wills really - and if they are not playing ball then it's probably time to stop the payments to Santander too and see what reaction you get then?

 

BD

[Undercover-Elsa]

The good news is that once you get into the default situation many banks then transfer you into another category of "long term problems" and at some point (usually after the termination or demanding full balance) stop adding interest. Thereafter the debt will reduce more quickly and you are also in a better position for negotiating a better full & final.

Elsa x

[wilchil64]

Thanks Elsa.

 

An update re. MBNA: Today there was just a (computer generated) letter from MBNA saying they still haven't received the payment shown in recent statement, account is in arrears, if we are unable to pay we should call on freephone xxxx. These are the guys who wrote to tell me they couldn't accept lower payments and freeze interest/charges because we had never made full minimal payment, so I wrote back (on 10th) to say please explain your logic! Letters have obviously crossed in the post, plus this is computer generated, so will wait for their reply, unless anyone thinks otherwise?

 

I've been reading some of the threads on here, but is there one that gives an idea of the general course these things tend to take, or is it not possible to anticipate how things will go? i.e. companies wait for you to miss 3 payments then send a DN, then how long til they might send a TN? What happens next? Or do all companies handle it differently?

 

Have a good weekend everyone. Thanks again.

Edited September 17, 2010 by wilchil64
added more info

[Undercover-Elsa]

I have 2 credit cards with same company. No agreement for either so I stopped paying. They handled each cmpletely differently, defaulted different times and eventually sent to different debt collectors! No real way of telling what they'll do.

I'd ignore the computer generated ones. Let's teach them you'll only respond to meaningful dialogue...

[Bigdebtor]

Just to keep yourself right I would do a quick letter to MBNA along lines of:

 

Thank you for your letter of xx September saying you did not recieve my last payment. I sent you cheque no xxx for the revised agreed payment of £Xx and it has been debited from my bank on XX Sept (if it has?) - which was before/after the date on your last letter. I also wrote to you again on 10 September (further copy enclosed for your convenience). I trust this clears up any confusion and you will update your records accordingly.

 

However, if despite by your actions having confirmed your acceptance of my proposal first included with my cheque no xxxx of Xx June by banking this and subsequent cheques, you now wish to end this agreement then please confirm this in writing by return. I have significant demands on my limited monthly income and if you are no longer prepared to honour the terms of our current agreement then I shall make any monthly payments to you.

 

For the avoidance of doubt therefore, please note that, unless you advise me to the contrary by Friday 1 October then I shall regard our agreement to have been terminated by you

Yours etc.

 

Let's see what you get back now.

 

BD

[Good Finder]

Do this quick letter work in every case or just in this specific instance?

[Bigdebtor]

GF

 

I think you would be better getting specific advice to your own situation. Start your own thread and put a link here so we can find you and see exactly what help you need.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Hi,

 

We've received some more letters over the weekend.

 

First of all, the HFC Bank have written - copy attached - the usual, i.e. thanks for your letter, we need proof of income etc. Will it help matters if I supply the info they want? Everything I've read on here and elsewhere seems to suggest not!

 

Secondly, we have a letter from Santander Cards - copy attached, there are 2 pages to the letter, scanned as 2 separate PDF files. As an reminder, these are the guys who sent a DN - not sure how we stand now re the DN?

 

Thirdly, we have another letter from Santander. I have just scanned 2 pages of it (attached as 2 separate PDF files), there was also a covering sheet just with our address and "We enclose the following: Notice of sums in arrears" (written twice).

 

There was also 2 copies of the OFT information sheet including.

 

The first sheet refers to our personal loan and is first notice of sums in arrears. I'm not sure how important the bit is about not incurring default sums or extra interest in relation to missed or partly made payments??

 

The second sheet scanned refers to our Santander credit card and says we are now 2 payments in arrears. Not sure how this ties in with the DN they sent either!

 

Thanks for looking!

santander card copy pg 2 180910.PDF

hfc copy rcvd 200910.PDF

santander loan copy pg 2 200910.PDF

santander loan copy pg 1 200910.PDF

santander card copy pg 1 180910.PDF

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Wilchil,

The Santander loan ones can be ignored, just standard bumph they have to churn out periodically to comply with legislation.

The C Card letter has come from a different section from the DN, which again are just sent automatically usually.

At least they are starting to relent and have given you 3 months breathing space without interest or charges. Good result.

I personally would not send any i and e, wageslips or details of other creditors to the nosy beggars. Did they ask for such things when they threw the credit at you?

I'm not sure what Big Debtors masterplan is so will await his reply with interest.

[wilchil64]

The Santander loan ones can be ignored, just standard bumph they have to churn out periodically to comply with legislation. The C Card letter has come from a different section from the DN, which again are just sent automatically usually. At least they are starting to relent and have given you 3 months breathing space without interest or charges. Good result. I personally would not send any i and e, wageslips or details of other creditors to the nosy beggars. Did they ask for such things when they threw the credit at you?

I'm not sure what Big Debtors masterplan is so will await his reply with interest.

 

Cool! Thanks Elsa

[Bigdebtor]

Wilchil/Elsa

 

No great master plan - sorry - just adapting to events as I would do if it were me - no guarntees either other than I would be AMAZED if any court action taken while they are still getting paid something.

 

I would keep making payments - but change the accompanying letter along lines -

"you have accepted payments of £xx per month which were made by me on the strict understanding that you accepted the accompanying proposals in the letters of x june, x July etc. I am sorry to note you now appear to be ignoring the conditions which accompanied these payments. PLEASE NOTE - YOU MUST NOT BANK THE ENCLOSED CHEQUE NO xxxx for £xx.xx UNLESS YOU ACCEPT THE TERMS OF MY PROPOSAL - NAMELY xxxx and refund any interest and charges already levied since first banking cheque no xxxx in June 2010. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT MY PROPOSAL YOU MUST RETURN THE ENCLOSED CHEQUE with your counter proposals for my consideration but please ote the amount paid by me since xx June ha s been the pro rata amount calculated as being affordable in my present circumstances after detailed consultatiuon with CCCS.. Your banking of this cheque no. xxxx for £xx.xx will be deemed to be acceptance of my proposals. Failure to take either course of action will result in my suspending all further payments to you without further notice"

 

If they bank and ignore your conditions - no more payments - ask for CCA, SAR etc. to confirm just how enforceable the agreements are.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Thanks BD. Will get letter to that effect sent off.

[wilchil64]

Hi all,

 

We've received a letter from Sainsbury's Bank today - they've been trying to contact us by phone for over a week now, but unfortunately we haven't been able to take their calls

 

To summarise so far, we offered them a lower payment, which was only twenty odd quid below the actual monthly amount, but then lowered that to forty quid after 2 payments. They've sent a letter saying payments are overdue and they have charged admin charge of 25quid. I replied with a letter (as suggested above), saying they cashed our cheques, now imposed unfair charge of 25quid which is in conflict with OFT guidelines etc. Unless they confirm by return they have accepted our proposal and waive this unfair charge we have no option but to suspend all further payments pending consideration by senior management. We said not to phone or visit to discuss, we shall only communicate in writing.

 

Despite this, they try to ring us and when they can't get hold of us they send the attached letter!

 

Can I reply, enclosing copy of last letter and saying we are corresponding with them but we did state we wouldn't talk to them on the phone or in person and could they put their thoughts in writing, to which we are happy to reply in writing? Should I send a cheque at the end of the month or not?

 

Thanks!! have a good weekend, all.

sainsbury loan copy 240910.PDF

[Bigdebtor]

I would send them one FINAL CHEQUE with the attached letter ( and copies of all previous letters from you) -

 

I am bemused by your assertion in your letter of X September that I have ignored your attempts to contact you. I would refer you to the (no. of) letters dated XXX, XXX, XXX etc. in which I have contacted you and made proposals which you seemed to accept by banking the cheque numbers XXX, XXX etc. enclosed with these letters and which were only to be banked if you accepted such proposals. It is therefore yourselves who are IN DEFAULT of the agreements made by virue of your banking such cheques.

 

I have also informed you that I do not wish to discuss this matter by telephone and regard your continued phone calls as harassment. My various letters illustrate that I am prepared, indeed anxious, to discuss the matter in writing and would counter it is Santander who is refusing to have meaningful contact on this matter by insisting on telephone contact against my stated wishes.

 

I confirm that I am prepared to continue making monthly payments of £xx.XX pe rmonth - BUT ONLY IF AND WHEN you now confirm IN WRITING that you will accept such payments in recognition of our impaired financial circumstances and waive any further interest or charges unless and/or until our circumstances improve.

 

I would also counter it is you who is refusing to communicate - by ignoring the contetnts of the various letters sent to you on XX, XX etc. (dates).

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I am NOT refusing to pay the debt voluntarily as you now allege. I simply CANNOT AFFORD to continue payments at the amount which I had been doing previously and I enclose a further payment of £x.xx WHICH IS SENT IN GOOD FAITH - and which SHOULD ONLY BE BANKED if you accept my proposal to pay this amount monthly and suspend all waive all further interest and charges - as proposed above and in my previous letters accompanying previous such cheques which have all been banked by you.

 

For the further avoidance of doubt, please note this is the last such cheque which will be sent to you UNLESS AND UNTIL I receive your written confirmation that you WILL NOT issue the Default Notice threatened in your letter of XX September 2010 along with suspending all further ingterest and charges.

 

I also believe you are contravening OFT guidelines regarding the treatment of those who have advised you of financial difficulties and I therefore urge you to confirm your acceptance of my proposals by return.

 

Your credit rating is already shot with other DN's - so their DN won't matter - but have they not already offered you a 3 month grace - or issued a DN already - sorry - getting mixed up with who is now doing what - and not got time just now to read back old posts. If any of this applies then amend your letter to put it in too - then post it up for final checking before sending it off. Remember - keep ALL letters AND envelopes safe.

 

BD

Edited September 24, 2010 by Bigdebtor
typos - maybe still some left ?

[wilchil64]

Sorry, BD, I know it's confusing. It was Santan-bloomin'-der that offered 3 months grace a couple of days ago. This is Sainsburys - no such offers from them, they want to discuss it with us! Shall I send letter more or less as above anyway?

 

Thanks very much. I'm filing all letters with the envelopes, marked with the date we received them too.

 

I'll post up a draft for final checking before sending.

[Bigdebtor]

Wilchil

 

Sorry - getting confused - just change the Santander bit in the middle to Sainsbury's. I recollect you also wrote to Sainsbury's CEO? If so then copy him on this letter too. Incidentally if you're cutting and pasting my words above into a Word document then double check for typos - I think there are still some in there.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

[Rhia]

Hello just catching up as been offboards for a few days. I see BD is keeping you on the right track but it does confuse you when none of these organisations seem capable of even answering the most basic of letters.

The only one I have any personal experience of here is MBNA. You need to watch them as I thought I was negotiating a full and final with them but all they did was load on the charges and interest, write it off to UK tax and sell it offshore to a DCA.

BD is spot on with the paper trail as even if any of these end up in court it's going to look very bad for them as their actions are against OFT debt collection guidelines; the Lending Code which they all actively claim to subscribe to and most definitely constitute an Unfair Relationship as per s140 of the CCA.

 

Carry on with the good work WilChil you are doing brilliantly.