We have so much debt, it seems only hope is selling house!

[sillygirl1]

I have found another nice line to sneak into letters....

 

"Due to the frequency and amount of phone calls received all calls are being recorded and all calls will be confirmed by email immedaitely the convesation ceases, this email will also request the recording of the call just made."

 

That should stop them sending the "phone us to discuss"

[Bigdebtor]

Good idea - but if you tell them YOU'VE recorded the call they could ask for a copy of YOUR recording too!

 

Like it though

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Thanks guys.

 

BD, I'll check whether they've banked the cheque tomorrow morning and get back to you then.

 

Thanks.

[wilchil64]

I'm starting to lose the plot and lose track of which company we are talking about! Had to read through all the previous messages.

 

Santander cards, who sent the DN, have not banked the cheque yet. I will try to cancel it.

 

I have replied to their letters, as above, saying basically I deem them to have accepted my proposals as they've banked our cheques, could they confirm, and that I wish to correspond in writing, not by phone.

 

Wouldn't it be a bit risky to not send any payments to them from now on? I thought I was to continue with lower payments so the court can see I am willing to sort this?

 

Thanks.

[wilchil64]

Wilchill

 

I have been reading more on the dodgy DN thread. Based on this I think it's important that you DON'T pay anything further to the lot who sent you the "within 14 days" DN.

 

You don't need to do any more letters to them at present or pay them any more. They made it clear what they would do if you didn't pay the arrears within 14 days. Since you can't afford to pay the arrears then pay them NO MORE - not even the amount you have been paying so far which they have taken without honouring the implied agreement.

 

Did a payment from you cross in the post with the DN? If so , has it been banked by them yet? If not, then ask your bank to cancel that cheque - as they clearly are not going to accept your proposal, but will continue to bank your cheques.

 

If you need to know more I'll pm you.

 

BD

 

Just to clarify:

 

I sent the co. with the DN a letter saying I deem them to accept my proposals as they've banked cheques etc. I have not replied to the DN in any way - should I be writing to say I can't pay the arrears? They have had a cheque from me for the lower payment but haven't cashed it.

[Bigdebtor]

Cancel the cheque now if you still can - don't worry if you can't - just let us know.

 

BD

[bobogosing]

Hello Wilchil64!

 

Firstly, I cannot stress too much that you must not throw away the main asset to feed these creatures.

 

The depths of a recession is not the best time to sell your Home, because you will be throwing away wealth. The value of your Mortgage, relative to the value of your Home, will be at a high point right now. So, if you sell now, then once costs are taken out, and the fact that the price you get will almost certainly be lower than you expect, you'll be left with very little to show for all the payments you have made to fill the Mortgage Company's coffers.

 

The Debt Industry wins, they lent you Number Money that you borrowed into existence, you paid them back bags of Real Money you had to earn first and, if you sell, they get a fat balance in the form of more Real Money from the early and otherwise unscheduled liquidation of your Home.

 

By comparison, fight to keep the Home, and if you manage to do so for a reasonable period, i.e. long enough to see things recover and the value creep up, then not only will the Mortgage Balance be less, but the value of your Home relative to that Balance will be much healthier. If you sell then, you should walk away with a lot more money...because the real value of the Mortgage will have effectively reduced.

 

If nothing else, fighting back might allow you to sell the Home when it suits you, i.e. when you have prepared it for sale, and when you have planned what to do next in more detail. Right now does not sound like the right time for you and the family, and it's almost certainly not the right time given the shape of the economy.

 

Having said that, if you have a place that has a strong market potential, i.e. it's in demand, then selling at the bottom of a Recession does have some advantages, provided you are Captain of your own Destiny!

 

By that, I mean you can put the Capital into good use, and take advantage of other issues. Such as renting, and parking the money safe where the vultures cannot get at it, and/or using the money to make more money.

 

Quite right. The best advice I can give to anyone, is not to borrow. Stay outside of the clutches of the Debt Industry, and life does go on, and things are, amazingly, quite pleasant. Instead of shopping on a Credit Card, and then spending months to pay off the price of that steak you bought last year, you can instead buy your steak with cash and/or a Debit Card, and pay for it, and eat it, all on the same day, with no Interest to pay. With the savings on Interest, you can afford to pay for another steak, in full, a few months down the line.

 

Once you get the hang of it, you'll start to love Cash, and will start to enjoy managing it, so that none of it ends up in the hands of grasping bankers.

Unfortunately, this is what happens. If you live by their rules, then the Debt Industry will get you in the end. Shopping on a Credit Card, or buying your Sofa on HP, or your TV on Interest Free Credit (hint, it's not Free, the Credit is built into the Price), then all that happens is your initial enjoyment is followed by Months of slow pain, as they suck you dry for the momentary pleasure.

 

But if you can nail this now, and stop living by their rules, it can and will get better. When you go to buy that TV, ask them how much for Cash, and you will be amazed at the discounts on offer. You'll be even more amazed at being able to watch your own TV, as opposed to one owned by the Finance Company who provided the Interest Free Credit for 3 Years!

This is the same as many people, and a comment made by many when they first pitch up here with similar issues. It's no accident. The system is rotten, not the people.

 

It depends on Debt, and depends on people getting into Debt. Daft as this may seem, there is not enough money around to pay for all the Debt. There is only enough to lend the Debt, the Interest on the Debt does not exist. But it has to come from somewhere. So, they need more and more Debt to borrow itself into existence for the whole rotten system to work, otherwise it all comes to a grinding halt.

 

Er...like now!

 

The second the supply of Debt is constrained, the people end up in the poop, because the Interest still has to be paid. But if there is insufficient new Debt borrowing itself into existence, then what happens, what gives?

 

I'll tell you what gives, people lose their Homes, and Businesses go out of Business, as the Debt Industry sinks its claws into Real Assets.

 

This is why the percentage of Real Assets owned by banks and similar Financial Groups has been steadily rising, and that percentage goes up every time there is a Recession. Indeed, it's almost as if the banks want a Recession every now and again!

Don't feel bad, you are not being at all unreasonable.

 

The secret is to realise what has been going on, and what forces have pushed you into this situation. They will tell you that you have brought this upon yourself, and that it was your own poor money management that is to blame.

 

Please take a step back and ask yourself if that was really the case at all?

 

What have you really got to show for all the money that you have paid in Mortgage Interest, HP Interest, Credit Card Interest, Interest Free Interest!

 

I suspect you may be starting to get annoyed.

 

Good.

 

You need to be annoyed, before you can start to take charge of events, and start to fight back and put your family back on track. It won't be easy, because the Debt Industry has control over almost every aspect of our lives, from the way you have to use a bank just to get access to your Pay, to the way everything revolves around banks and the groups that force feed you Debt at any, and every, opportunity.

 

Because they are in control, fighting back is hard work. However, you have found CAG, so the turnaround has started, if you let it.

 

Where do you start?

 

Well, getting organised is the first crucial stage you must strive towards, because you will not stand a chance unless you can clear the decks and get the whole sorry mess lined up, and organised into clearly demarcated areas.

 

A good starting point would be to buy some A4 Lever Arch Folders (£11 for 10 on eBay for example, plus Carriage), buy an A4 Hole-Punch, and start gathering the papers (and the Envelopes, keep all Envelopes!).

 

You are on here, so you must have a PC?

 

So, start using that to get the key issues organised. I find a Spreadsheet is damned handy, use it like a big Calendar, and use coloured boxes and text, to line things up so that you can see the numbers, and can see the time line. When were Agreements made, when are payments due, what is the balance etc.

 

If you can afford it, buy a Home Accounting Package, and start working to a budget. Set up a Cash Flow Spreadsheet to see what Bills you have coming up, and when you need money to pay for them, then tick off the ones you have paid as you work through each month. Keep a firm handle on the true Balances of your bank Account and Petty Cash.

 

Then you can start to fight back, and start to draft letters to each of your Creditors to see where you stand with them.

 

I won't go into detail here, because it's all on CAG, or can be covered in detail in this Thread. But it mainly boils down to sending each a CCA Request, and each a SAR to ensure you get all of the key details.

 

But, as I said right at the start, the Mortgage is key, the rest are far, far less important, although they are the ones that will make you worried and will make you lose sleep.

 

So, they are the ones you must take charge of straight away. You can only pay what you can pay, so you must stop trying to pay what you cannot pay. Moving Balances around from Card to Card, is a sure sign that you are maintaining a payment regime that you cannot afford. Something was bound to fall apart, so there's no point trying to flog a dead horse.

 

Of course these people will say they will come for your Home, but it's not as easy as that, and provided you tackle this sensibly and methodically, you have every chance of planning a way out of this dark hole that you think you are in.

 

It won't be fun, and it won't be easy, but I know that once you start, you will feel a whole lot better.

 

The key is to start, after you make that decision, things should start to improve from there. At the very least, you will be Captain of your own Destiny, and not just another victim of this Recession.

 

I do hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Wow! Have read this post again and again. I am in the same postion'ish and after reading this advice, Its given me a boost and sort of know where to start. I've been feeling like a lost sheep these past years and went through a bad patch of depression. Still have my good and bad days. Sometimes I feel like I know what I need to do and sometimes I am at a lost. I really am grateful for this forum and the fantastic people that's given advice and support, it gives me comfort and confidence, without it, I honestly don't know what to do. Thank you all!! bobogosing

[Bigdebtor]

Bobo

 

If you want specific help on your situation then it would be best to start your own thread - but put a link to it here so we can get to it and help you too if we can.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Cancel the cheque now if you still can - don't worry if you can't - just let us know.

 

BD

 

I'll try and let you know.

[wilchil64]

Another 2 letters in the post today:

 

One was from Santander Cards, but had obviously crossed in the post with my letter and just said to ring them, so I'm ignoring that as I wrote to them on Friday saying I won't ring them!

 

The other letter is attached. It's from M&S. This is the company I considered offering F&F but haven't done so yet. I was advised by you guys to complain first re. not following OFT guidelines etc. but I'm afraid I haven't done that either yet!

 

The last correspondence with M&S was me sending cheque for September payment.

 

Shall I just write end of this month with October's payment, saying we deem them to have accepted by cashing cheques, not prepared to correspond by phone but in writing, already filled in I&Es for CCCS, consider this unnecessary bla bla bla? Or shall I go ahead with complaint? I could make F&F as we are talking about £460 so would be nice to get rid of, but equally it is a small amount so could just continue with lower payments and see what happens?

 

Thanks guys!

copy M&S card rcvd 14910.PDF

Edited September 14, 2010 by wilchil64
typo

[Bigdebtor]

Agree - ignore Santander at thsi time.

 

Re M&S - are they telling you to continue making the (reduced) payment you offered - or the one the agreement states?

 

I would write to M&S again saying you are not obliged to give them the info they are asking for and that other creditors have accepted your proposals, which were put together with help from CCCS. You are also considering suspending ALL payments to them as they are not treating you as OFT/FOS say they should. They would no doubt counter that you only need to give them the info and they will treat you as someone with financial difficulty - and OFT/FOS may agree with that. Perhaps copy this new letter to Mr Rose (CEO of M&S) ?

 

On the other hand, while you can reclaim any late charges imposed, you probably won't be able to reclaim the interest - since they have not agreed to waive it so far - so an F&F might be attractive. Do you owe them £460? If so an F&F offer of £250 might just get them to bite.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Re M&S - are they telling you to continue making the (reduced) payment you offered - or the one the agreement states?

They are asking me to pay the reduced payment in the meantime.

 

I would write to M&S again saying you are not obliged to give them the info they are asking for and that other creditors have accepted your proposals, which were put together with help from CCCS. You are also considering suspending ALL payments to them as they are not treating you as OFT/FOS say they should. They would no doubt counter that you only need to give them the info and they will treat you as someone with financial difficulty - and OFT/FOS may agree with that. Perhaps copy this new letter to Mr Rose (CEO of M&S) ?

Sounds good, will do.

 

On the other hand, while you can reclaim any late charges imposed, you probably won't be able to reclaim the interest - since they have not agreed to waive it so far - so an F&F might be attractive. Do you owe them £460? If so an F&F offer of £250 might just get them to bite.

Yes I owe them approx. £460. OK, I'd be ok with that. Can I just search for F&F on the forum here or is there anything in particular I need to bear in mind?

 

Thanks.

[Bigdebtor]

The wording of the F&F offer is important - also it's more binding legally if they accept a third party cheque - familiy or friend. I'm pretty sure there are good templates on CAG or Martin Lewis's MSE site - but might be worth doing the first letter (copied to Mr Rose) now - and not doing F&F unless that still doesn't get you the result you want.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

There is no one we can ask to write a cheque for us so it will have to be from us unfortunately.

 

I will write to M&S first and copy to Mr Rose CEO.

 

Thanks.

[Bigdebtor]

Yes - do the first step now and wait and see if any result.

 

Re F&F - is the M&S card in joint names? If not, then get the cheque sent by the partner whose card it ISN'T.

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Thanks BD. The account is in one name only, so that is a possibility, thanks for that.

 

Does this draft letter sound ok?

 

"Dear Sir or Madam, Re.: Account Number xxxx

Further to your letter dated xxxxxx, requesting that I complete an up to date breakdown of my income and expenditure details, as well as a breakdown of each of my other creditors, balances outstanding and offer of payment made to them, I am not obliged to give you the information you are asking for. Other creditors have accepted my proposals, which were put together with help from CCCS, as I am a CCCS debt remedy client.

I am also considering suspending ALL payments to your company as you are not treating me as the Office of Fair Trading/Financial Ombudsman Services say you should.

Yours faithfully,

cc.: To Sir Stuart Rose, Chairman"

[Bigdebtor]

Thanks BD. The account is in one name only, so that is a possibility, thanks for that.

 

Does this draft letter sound ok?

 

"Dear Sir or Madam, Re.: Account Number xxxx

Further to your letter dated xxxxxx, requesting that I complete an up to date breakdown of my income and expenditure details, as well as a breakdown of each of my other creditors, balances outstanding and offer of payment made to them, I have been advised that am not obliged to give you the information you are asking for, other than to confirm I am in finacial difficulties and advise you that other creditors have accepted my proposals to pay them sums which equate to that offered to you on a pro rata basis, calculated with help from CCCS, as I am a CCCS debt remedy client.

 

Since you are still charging me interest and imposing charges, there is really no point in my continuing to keep my side of the bargain as you have not accepted the terms of my proposal despite banking the accompanying cheques, which you should only have done if you accepted my proposal.

 

I am therefore seriously considering suspending ALL further payments to your company as you are not treating me as the Office of Fair Trading/Financial Ombudsman Services say you should treat someone who is in Financial difficulties and has sought your help, whilst still making affordable pro rata payments on account pending confimration of your acceptance of my proposals.

Yours faithfully,

cc.: To Sir Stuart Rose, Chairman"

 

see slight amendments above

 

BD

[wilchil64]

Fab, thanks! You're a star!

[Bigdebtor]

Just changed it a bit further - make sure you copy the latest one into word.

 

Good luck

 

BD

[wilchil64]

OK, got those amendments, thanks!

[bobogosing]

Bobo

 

If you want specific help on your situation then it would be best to start your own thread - but put a link to it here so we can get to it and help you too if we can.

 

BD

 

Hello BD! Very kind of you to offer your help, thanks. I have 9 creditors and wishes to offer F&F settlement offer but before I can do this I need to know where I stand with the agreements. I know some say its enforceable but I still have doubts because I have had audits done on them and they came back unfair. Here's the links to where I have posted them and really grateful if you've time to take a look. bobo

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276466-F-amp-F-settlement-advice-for-MBNA-Virgin-please!&p=3120959&highlight=#post3120959

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276322-Help-needed-for-f-amp-f-settlement-with-mbna&p=3119561&highlight=#post3119561

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276491-Help-needed-for-f-amp-f-settlement-with-cahoot-please!&p=3121134&highlight=#post3121134

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276492-Help-needed-for-f-amp-f-settlement-with-america-express-please!&p=3121180&highlight=#post3121180

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276499-Help-needed-for-f-amp-f-settlement-with-barclaycard-please!&p=3121198&highlight=#post3121198

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276503-Help-needed-for-f-amp-f-settlement-with-mint-please!&p=3121210&highlight=#post3121210

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276506-Help-needed-for-f-amp-f-settlement-with-northern-rock-please!&p=3121219&highlight=#post3121219

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276501-Help-needed-for-f-amp-f-settlement-with-egg-card-please!&p=3122622&highlight=#post3122622

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?276050-Advice-on-EGG-Loan-agreement-please!&p=3121380&highlight=#post3121380

[bobogosing]

Also, to SAR the creditors, can I find the creditor's correct addresses on this forum to send them? They have so many different addresses and I don't want them to say they've not received my SAR request. Thanks bobo

[bobogosing]

Undercover Elsa has just given you a really great run down of how to set about it all. It is very confusing to start but you wil get the hang of it - we all have.

 

UE is correct it is well worthwhile asking for the original agreements as they may not have them or they may be missing vital parts which means they can't enforce the debt. It will still exist but they will be unable to go after you for it. So that will be one down.

 

I know from my own dealings that some of them just don't have them in which case it is game over. In your situation I would first have a crack at the loans and credit cards. Don't try and take it all on at one go as you will get muddled (well you might not but I have done and did). I found a good plan is to set up a file for each outstanding debt.

 

As you send out letters keep a copy of everything and put everything in writing. If no-one replies ask again until you have the information you require.

 

With loans and credit cards you need to check if there was anything added such as charges and insurance premiums. (Did I say this already?)

 

And yes if you don't want to borrow any money or get another mortgage who gives a fig about a credit report?It is just another way the creditors and debt collectors try and control people.

 

Sorry to jump in. Can I ask would it affect the mortage? Lets say a tracker deal is up and I wish to request the next better deal, would they do a credit search? Really grateful for any answers. bobo

[Bigdebtor]

The CRA's can probably screw you up as far as getting a better mortgage deal from a new provider is concerned, especially in the current climate.

 

If you're already on a DMP then your rating is probably already screwed up - but it's certainly worth talking to your current mortgage company or broker about a better deal if the time is right - especially if you've never missed any payments on it - and don't have any loans etc. from them that's part of the DMP.

 

BD

[bobogosing]

The CRA's can probably screw you up as far as getting a better mortgage deal from a new provider is concerned, especially in the current climate.

 

If you're already on a DMP then your rating is probably already screwed up - but it's certainly worth talking to your current mortgage company or broker about a better deal if the time is right - especially if you've never missed any payments on it - and don't have any loans etc. from them that's part of the DMP.

 

BD

Never missed a payment, made sure it was paid on time. Don't have any loans. I was thinking striking a better deal with the same mortgage provider when the current deal is up.