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Hi i am looking for some help regarding my options as i was just dismissed from work for what i believe is a completely unfair reason.

 

I was recently injured at work, Damaged ligaments in my ankle from falling off of a van whilst I was unloading it on my own after my boss decided he did not want to help me.

 

I have been off of work for 4 weeks with this problem and I am still in pain. Each Friday my wife would pick up my Statuary sick pay from the office.

 

today my wife went there and the manager says she was not expecting her as she had not yet received the latest sick note. My wife gave her the sick note then and explained we had forgotten to post it.

 

She was then told the money would be ready soon and she would phone her when it was available.

 

30 mins later she called to say i could not have the money till Monday as the boss had gone home. I explained to her that we needed the money and the sick note only covers us from Wednesday to Friday so she should actually be able to pay me 2 days money from the previous sick note. She became rude, sarcastic and very abrupt making remarks about it "only being 10/20 pound and how would that help me" and that there is nothing she will do till Monday. I said this is not good enough I should at least have 2 days money to pick up. I then said Fine i have to go.

 

10 mins later i got a call from my boss saying "What the F*** are you playing at, how dare you speak to my daughter like s***, your money is now at the office your f*****g fired!!!"

 

Now I NEVER once raised my voice, swore or was rude to her other than saying this wasn't good enough.

 

I now don't know what to do, i believe I have a case for tribunal over this but was hoping someone may have some advice for me?

 

Thankyou in advance

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Hello Dan and welcome to CAG. What a tough experience for you and your wife. I can see why you're angry.

 

We have employment gurus on the forum who will probably turn up later. I'm just the warm-up act.:) Could I ask some of the standard questions please?

 

1. How long have you been with the company?

 

2. You were injured at work and this is why you've been off sick. What was done after you were injured, which is arguably their fault? Accident book, report to the HSE or anything else please?

 

It's a shame about the phone call. I'm guessing you don't have witnesses [difficult] and you wouldn't think to record a routine phone call, I know. So it's your word against the boss's daughter?

 

Maybe you could tell us the answers to those points, so we can have a think about a grievance or a tribunal. Your length of service could be important though, we need to know that.

 

My best, HB

Edited by honeybee13
clarity.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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honeybee is spot on.

 

Your length of service is crucial as if it is less than 12 months there is little that can be done about the 'instant' dismissal, but if you have been there a year or more, from what you have said there is a good case for Unfair Dismissal.

 

Also, if this is a work related injury lasting 3 or more days then your employer has to have reported it under the RIDDOR regs - their fault or not. Heve you ever seen a Risk Assessment about the safe loading and unloading of vehicles and the hazards associated with that activity? What training were you given and how exactly did the accident occur?

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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OK to answer honeybee's questions, I have been with the company for 6 months, and yes I was injured at work whilst unloading one of there vans.

 

I received no training for this job in anyway what so ever, I do have witnesses to the phone call but that is my wife so not sure if that would be a credible source.

 

I have also not been involved in anything to do with Risk Assessment about the safe loading and unloading of vehicles and the hazards associated

 

no accident book was filled out, don't even know if they have one never seen one.

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Right.

 

RIDDOR regulations

 

The Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations 1995 (RIDDOR), place a legal duty on:

 

  • employers;
  • self-employed people;
  • people in control of premises;

to report work related deaths, major injuries orover three days injuries, work related diseases and dangerous occurences (near miss accidents).

 

Reportable over-three-day injuries

 

If there is an accident connected with work (including an act of physical violence) and your employee, or a self-employed person working on your premises, suffers an over-three-day injury you must report it to the enforcing authority within ten days.

An over-3-day injury is one which is not major but results in the injured person being away from work OR unable to do their full range of their normal duties for more than three days.

 

Failure on the part of the employer to notify the relevant authority criminal offence, and fines for breaches of the Health & Safety at Work Act can be substantial. There is also a duty on the employee to report incidents through the company's Accident Book, so the fact that you were not, and have never been made aware of it, is extremely relevant.

 

 

Did you enter details in the Accident Book (was this volunteered)?

Did you receive any First Aid treatment?

Did you go to hospital or just the GP? Was this immediately? Was the hospital/doctor made aware that this was a work related incident?

 

How many employees are there?

What is the Health & Safety culture within this employer like (are they generally safety conscious or would an Inspector find missing Risk Assessments, lack of manual handling training, first aid training, trip and fall hazards)?

What is the nature (without necessarily being specific) of the business?

Did anyone else see your accident? Did you discuss it with any other colleagues?

Did you regularly feel at risk of injury in unloading vehicles? How crucial was it that this was a two person job? What type of goods were being unloaded and how heavy/awkward?

 

As far as Unfair Dismissal goes, you have no redress under the law with less than 12 months service, unless there is a case for discrimination, however if it were me, then I would be looking out personal injury lawyers' details and asking for an opinion on a no win no fee basis. I might also be phoning the local authority's enforcement section for Health & Safety Uusually the local Council's Environmental Heath department) to enquire as to whether your case was reported to them, and have a general chat about unsafe working practices.

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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Did you enter details in the Accident Book (was this volunteered)?

I did not enter any details into an accident book, I was not asked to and have never been made aware that there even was one

 

Did you receive any First Aid treatment?

No first aid treatment, i just laid on the floor until an ambulance arrived

 

Did you go to hospital or just the GP? Was this immediately? Was the hospital/doctor made aware that this was a work related incident?

Yes i went ammediatly to the hospital where i was told i had torn ligaments and damaged tissue around the ankle

 

How many employees are there?

There are only 6 employees at this business, all family except me

 

What is the Health & Safety culture within this employer like (are they generally safety conscious or would an Inspector find missing Risk Assessments, lack of manual handling training, first aid training, trip and fall hazards)?

To be honest i dont see any type of health and safety awareness there, Stock rooms are a complete mess, and a health risk. Constant water leaking from the rain which causes puddles around the building and inside. They have never at anypoint gone through any health and saftey measures with me(including manual handling).

 

What is the nature (without necessarily being specific) of the business?

The business is a furniture warehouse, I am a delivery mate.

 

Did anyone else see your accident? Did you discuss it with any other colleagues?

 

Nobody saw the accident as i was outside unloading but it was caught on there CCTV

 

Did you regularly feel at risk of injury in unloading vehicles? How crucial was it that this was a two person job? What type of goods were being unloaded and how heavy/awkward?

 

Yes this was definitely a 2 man job, I was unloading 90kg wardrobes flat packed and not flat packed, as well as Sofas, and also some smaller items.

 

 

Thank you for your input regarding the unfair dismissal, I will leave that behind me then and just start looking for new work once i am healed up, but i will be looking to make an injury claim.

 

Great Forums, keep up the good work and thank you for all the replies.

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Hello again Dan. Sidewinder has told you all the right stuff. I think a personal injury specialist could have a field day with this. If it were me, I'd get some satisfaction from shopping them to the Health and Safety police, but also maybe saving someone else from the same fate.

 

Sidewinder, do you have any thoughts on trying to get hold of the CCTV footage before it is conveniently wiped?

 

Come back to us if you need more info.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Dan and Sidewinder, I just found this on the HSE website.

 

Employer without compulsory insurance fined

 

This employer was fined for not having Employer's Liability insurance, which I'd forgotten about. Dan, did your employer have this, would you happen to know? I need to remind myself how it works, but it might add an interesting dimension to this.

 

Any thoughts, guys?

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Dan and Sidewinder, I just found this on the HSE website.

 

Employer without compulsory insurance fined

 

This employer was fined for not having Employer's Liability insurance, which I'd forgotten about. Dan, did your employer have this, would you happen to know? I need to remind myself how it works, but it might add an interesting dimension to this.

 

Any thoughts, guys?

 

HB

 

The employer would be suicidal not to have liability insurance - particularly if they are conducting removals, and this should be displayed at the employer's premises.

 

Quote:

Did you enter details in the Accident Book (was this volunteered)?

I did not enter any details into an accident book, I was not asked to and have never been made aware that there even was one

Not sure whether the law was ever updated but it used to be the case that only if the employer employed 10 or more people it was necessary to have an Accident Book, however there is a legal obligation for the employer to record details of accidents

 

Quote:

Did you receive any First Aid treatment?

No first aid treatment, i just laid on the floor until an ambulance arrived

The employer will find it very difficult to deny that the incident took place

 

Quote:

Did you go to hospital or just the GP? Was this immediately? Was the hospital/doctor made aware that this was a work related incident?

Yes i went ammediatly to the hospital where i was told i had torn ligaments and damaged tissue around the ankle

 

Good - There will be an official record that this was a workplace incident then

 

Quote:

How many employees are there?

There are only 6 employees at this business, all family except me

 

Quote:

What is the Health & Safety culture within this employer like (are they generally safety conscious or would an Inspector find missing Risk Assessments, lack of manual handling training, first aid training, trip and fall hazards)?

To be honest i dont see any type of health and safety awareness there, Stock rooms are a complete mess, and a health risk. Constant water leaking from the rain which causes puddles around the building and inside. They have never at anypoint gone through any health and saftey measures with me(including manual handling).

 

Back to my earlier comment then - I would be considering a phone call to the local Environmental Health to express concern at the conditions in the workplace and lack of attention to employee safety which contributed to your injury.....and finishing off with "I presume that you will be aware that I was injured at work as I understand that they should have reported it as a 3 day injury?"

 

Quote:

What is the nature (without necessarily being specific) of the business?

The business is a furniture warehouse, I am a delivery mate.

 

All the more need to have received some guidance in safe lifting and carrying methods

 

Quote:

Did anyone else see your accident? Did you discuss it with any other colleagues?

Nobody saw the accident as i was outside unloading but it was caught on there CCTV

 

A point to make to the Environmental Health and an injury lawyer

 

Quote:

Did you regularly feel at risk of injury in unloading vehicles? How crucial was it that this was a two person job? What type of goods were being unloaded and how heavy/awkward?

Yes this was definitely a 2 man job, I was unloading 90kg wardrobes flat packed and not flat packed, as well as Sofas, and also some smaller items.

 

An accident waiting to happen IMO. No responsible employer would allow that sort of weight to be moved by one person

 

Thank you for your input regarding the unfair dismissal, I will leave that behind me then and just start looking for new work once i am healed up, but i will be looking to make an injury claim.

 

I would get onto that one as soon as possible - take your pick as there are umpteen claims companies keen to take on the business. Make sure it is no win no fee and go with a recognised name.

 

Great Forums, keep up the good work and thank you for all the replies.

Make sure that you keep us updated on progress

 

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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hi thought i would give you guys an update, Spoke to an injury claims company today and they say i have a very very good case and are going forward with it. I am also going to be in contact with the hmrc (think that was it) today to report the company for there lack of health ad safety measures and also to see if my injury was reported.

 

I have one more question. I am unable to find the handbook/contract i signed when i started. I have asked for a copy of the one i signed which the company hold but they have refused and said "find your own" is this allowed or do i have a right to a copy of the one they have?

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Dan, if it's health and safety, I think it might be the HSE [Health and Safety Executive]. I'd say reporting the company would be a good thing, you don't want the same happening to anyone else. Hell, they deserve it, don't they? Sidewinder posted earlier in the thread about RIDDOR, I think that's what you're talking about.

 

HB x

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think this may come under data protection. you are entitled to see what they have.

 

It does indeed, and the OP needs to send a Subject Access Request pursuant to the Section 7 (1) of the Data Protection Act 1998. The employer can charge up to £10 to cover the cost of administration, but is legally obliged to provide all information related to your employment (although can withold or blank out anything which may identify other people. The employer has 40 days in which to comply or could face sanctions, including damages to the employee making the request.

 

hi thought i would give you guys an update, Spoke to an injury claims company today and they say i have a very very good case and are going forward with it. I am also going to be in contact with the hmrc (think that was it) today to report the company for there lack of health ad safety measures and also to see if my injury was reported.

 

I have one more question. I am unable to find the handbook/contract i signed when i started. I have asked for a copy of the one i signed which the company hold but they have refused and said "find your own" is this allowed or do i have a right to a copy of the one they have?

Well done on taking the first step. I too think you have a good case and I wouldn't be surprised if your (former) employer starts bending over backwards to be helpful once the letters start arriving :)

 

HMRC = Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs

HSE = Health & Safety Executive

 

I think the latter is probably the more likely, but as I posted in an earlier message, I think this will most likely be covered by the local Council's Environmental Health office and that may be the best place to start. As well as just asking about whether it has been reported, I would also be making an allegation of unsafe working practices (a matter of time before somebody else gets hurt) bearing in mind the circumstances of your own (serious) injury and the attitude of the employer towards H&S. That should result in a very inconvenient visit to the premises at which the Officer will go into everything for compliance to legal standards, training issues, risk assessments and will possibly issue an improvement notice.

 

This guy could end up with a prosecution under HSWA and his insurers having to fork out for a PI claim - all for the want of treating somebody properly after an injury which could have been avoided.

 

Sorry HB - posts crossed

Edited by Sidewinder
Posted same information as Honeybee

Any advice given is done so on the assumption that recipients will also take professional advice where appropriate.

 

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ah thats it HSE new i wrote the wrong thing :p thankyou again. I will be making a subject access request.

 

I also just had a nice phone call from an unfair dismissal firm who said they would like to look into my case. Although i have no rights to not be fired within a year they say things still have to be done the right way.

 

Maybe nothing will come of it but maybe something will.

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i would like to add that even though you are unable to claim unfair dismissal due to length of service, you may still be able to claim WRONGFUL dismissal. when you recieve your contract, check it for the dissiplinary procedure.

 

 

Wrongful Dismissal should not be confused with Unfair Dismissal, Wrongful Dismissal is based on contract law. Any claim for Wrongful Dismissal will therefore mean looking at the employee's employment contract to see if the employer has broken the contract.

The most common breach is where the employee is dismissed without notice or the notice given is too short. Obviously either party can end the employment relationship if they give the necessary notice. This will either be the legal minimum or what is stated in the employee's contract.

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