In lawyer mode

[F_DCAs]

Just a quick thought - does the DWP actually have permission or automatic authority to pass on peoples' personal details to outside companies or agencies?

 

Can anyone clarify this?

[Bazooka Boo]

Apparently the information they collect and how they use it depends on the nature of your business between you and them, however it should be all covered in here?

Privacy Policy - DWP

[F_DCAs]

Now, it says that 'We may also give information to certain other organisations. This can be because:

 

- The law (including the Data Protection Act) allows us to, or says we have to.

- A court order states it is necessary, or;

- You have given your permission.

 

My questions are :-

 

1. Where in the DPA does it 'allow them to or says they have to'?

2. Is there anything within an ESA agreement relating to passing on information externally?

[Bazooka Boo]

Not sure, I'm on the old IB, so would imagine it's the same, I'm guessing that it would be a tongue in cheek comment on a form you either sign, or it will be part of the whole process and you will be deemed to have given your permission.

 

Will have to take a closer look, but to be honest, I wouldn't want to be biting the hand that feeds me so to speak..

[ErikaPNP]

Now, it says that 'We may also give information to certain other organisations. This can be because:

 

- The law (including the Data Protection Act) allows us to, or says we have to.

- A court order states it is necessary, or;

- You have given your permission.

 

My questions are :-

 

1. Where in the DPA does it 'allow them to or says they have to'?

2. Is there anything within an ESA agreement relating to passing on information externally?

 

In answer to question 1, this would be under part IV "exemptions". I would

 

In answer to question 2, you give your agreement and understanding of this in signing the declaration when you claim ESA. (the ESA declaration is quoted below), relevant parts bolded.

 

 

● I declare that the information I have given on

this form is correct and complete as far as I

know and believe and I have included all my

income and savings.

● I understand that if I knowingly give information

that is incorrect or incomplete, I may be liable to

prosecution or other action.

● I understand that I must promptly tell the office

that pays my benefit of anything that may affect

my entitlement to, or the amount of, that benefit.

● I agree that

– the Department for Work and Pensions

– any approved health care professional advising

the Department

– any organisation with which the Department

has a contract for the provision of medical

services

may ask any of the people or organisations

mentioned on this form for any information

which is needed to deal with

– this claim for benefit

– any request for this claim to be looked at again

and that the information may be given to that

approved health care professional or

organisation or to the Department.

● I also understand that the Department may use

the information which it has now or may get in

the future to decide whether I am entitled to

– the benefit I am claiming

– any other benefit I have claimed

– any other benefit I may claim in the future.

● I agree to my doctor, or any doctor treating me,

being informed about the Secretary of State’s

determination on

– limited capability for work.

– limited capability for work related activity, or

– both.

This is my claim for Employment and Support

Allowance.

[F_DCAs]

I'm not biting that feeds - just the liar elements, that's all.

[Bazooka Boo]

Hmm, yes, agreed, every year the DWP along with JCP accuse me of ben fraud, each and every time I show them that it is their flawed administration system to blame..

Sorry Erika:p I am confident that if you were in charge in my neck of the woods, we wouldn't have any problems..

[ErikaPNP]

No need to apologise - I don't, and have never worked for DWP. Common misconception on the forum.

[happyhamr]

When i claimed ESA I did it all over the phone.

 

I did not have to sign anything,.(this was done in november)

 

I got a 12 page letter,last page stating "Do not sign or return

this customer statement.

[Shoelover]

In short, no. BUT there are lots of circumstances in which they can.

[happyhamr]

so people ,whats the answer to myself when i did not "SIGN"

 

In my declaration statement, (there is 8 bits/parts),will put down all 8 if

people want to know.

 

but for now, just

1-I agree that my doctor, or any doctor who has been

treating you,being informed about the secretary of states determination

on your "limited capability for work" (thats it,nothing about limited capability for work related activity)

[F_DCAs]

That's what I mean - ESA claims are often done by phone.

 

I'd always assumed that the DWP had an automatic right to outsource information, but I'm not so sure now that that automatic right even exists.

 

And if no permission exists from the subject, then the DWP could potentially be acting unlawfully - especially when an ESA claim has been taken via telephone.

[honeybee13]

Hi F DCAs. If you deal with a bank, say, on the phone, there are all sorts of disclaimers and rules they read to you regarding their regulator, etc.

 

I think I said earlier that the bank send written confirmation later. Are we saying the DWP don't do this? Could this come under the Information Commissioner or not?

 

Just a thought.

 

HB

[ErikaPNP]

I would assume it is similar to the tax credit renewals, where most people do this by phone and don't sign anything. It's taken as a "verbal signature" (their words, not mine). They read out from a script much the same as the declaration.

 

There are lawful provisions for information to be shared for specific purposes in the SSAA, and the SSFA, and the DPA without the claimant's consent.

[F_DCAs]

What would these provisions be, ErikaPNP? Can you clarify on this?

 

I don't recall ever being read anything like this over the phone.

[speedfreek]

Imagine you're buying some flowers to be delivered.

 

You ring the florist and say I'd like these flowers delivered to this address.

 

In order for the flowers to get to where you want them they have to give a 3rd party the delivery address.

 

Whilst you did not give specific instructions or your permission for the delivery folks to have this address. By ordering flowers from the florist who uses a 3rd party to deliver you have accepted that this data exchange will happen in order to fulfil your request.

 

By applying for ESA you have accepted the terms & therefore process of ESA as defined by the people implementing ESA. You have therefore given your consent and are now bound by the terms and conditions of the thing you are applying for.

 

It says on the letter (with the responses to you telephone application) we accept your claim as is and unless there is an error we will process that claim.

[ErikaPNP]

What would these provisions be, ErikaPNP? Can you clarify on this?

 

I don't recall ever being read anything like this over the phone.

 

You won't be read that over the phone; the provisions are set in the legislation of SSAA, DPA and SSFA that certain data can be provided to third parties without consent for specific purposes (fraud for example), thus they don't need to read it out over the phone. I've linked to the Statues which contain the provisions so that you have access to the Acts in their entirity. There are thousands of other statutes which will allow data to be shared without consent in specific circumstances, but only for that specific purpose. To find every piece of benefit specific legislation visit my sticky here which will guide you in how to find it. The sticky advises on finding both statues and precedents.

 

What I would assume they would do, is read out would be the declaration - as tax credits do for renewal purposes. I don't know that's what they do when a claim is made; it's merely a thought as this is what other companies do. HMRC, Insurance Companies, banks etc. Antone might be able to confirm or deny this.

[happyhamr]

Now i have just had another look at my (esa customre statement,12 pages,from November-09)

Considering i have medical certificates,dated before i made my esa

claim(phone),and have had medical certificates through out this whole

process,and i have been signed off untill the middle of july,reading through

this 12 page statement,(some bits in it are giving me "cause for concern"

1 EMPLOYMENT-

Employed or self employed on or after the date

from which you are claiming? ----------------- yes (nov09)

 

2 YOUR EMPLOYMENT STATUS

Employment status--------------------------- self employed(nov09)

Is this just a mis understanding,or is the (JCP),think i was working after

the date the claim was made?

 

Also ,Heading--

TAX

Do you have P45?-----currently Employed(nov09)

 

Are they(JCP), saying that i was/am working if they ever refer back to

this statement.(couple of other things also dont add up on statement)

 

Can someone please advise/help,just getting a bit "stressed",or is it

jcp just "stitching" up ,sorry just not sure whats going on?

 

" Thanks":confused: in advance

[F_DCAs]

I was just thinking out loud, so to speak. I'm sure that if such a question gets raised, they'll come up with some obscure reason for wriggling out of it - that's the DWP by nature.

[Bazooka Boo]

In fact if I remember rightly, I did have one occasion where the DWP informed me, sorry, accused me of Ben Fraud, where that they had been informed by JCP that they were giving me more money than I had Informed DWP about.

 

When I questiond JCP as to why they had felt the need to pass on this incorrect info, they flatly refused to accept that they had ever done so, when I then spoke to the DWP about it and informed them that the info they had 'assumed' from nowhere was incorrect, they again reverted to the initial claim that it was what JCP had on their system and informed them of.

 

So I concluded and was in fact told by the DWP and the LA, that they all use the same system, to cross check your claims, a bit like, the DCA's having access to the DVLA data base and that of the Royal Mail's 'Address forwarding' system.

[ErikaPNP]

JCP is a part of DWP (they are the same body) so the computer system they use is the same. Only specific people have access to certain areas though; for example, many staff will not have access and others may have a "view only" facility.

 

LA and DWP all share a system called the "Customer Information System". The information in this system is minimal compared to the information that is available on the claim system.

 

The DWP and LA's have a service agreement for sharing specific information in regard to benefit claims.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes, thank you for clearing that up Erika, just looking at my correspondence and it does clearly state that JCP is part of the DWP.....