Speeding in hire car; £25 'admin' charge

[221b]

Hello

 

I was clocked speeding at 82 mph on a dual carriageway limit of 70mph recently.

 

I was in a hire car at the time and the hire car company, (Enterprise Car Company) have charged my credit card with a £25 'admin' fee.

 

Is this admin fee challengeable, (as in, the banks are having to prove manual intervention and how long it took, so would the hire car company have to do the same?)

 

All I have received is a standard letter, so I fail to see how much 'admin' they've done.

 

All thoughts gratefully received.

 

Many thanks

 

221b

[Al27]

£25 doesn't seem too excessive. For a legitimate speeding or parking fine bit of paperwork, £15 may be fairer, but what can you do? Vote with your feet next time.

 

I suppose the person who sorts the paperwork at Enterprise doesn't work for free. And how else are they going to pay for their terrible, cheesy TV ads?

[221b]

Hi there

 

I didn't choose them; my insurance company did :-|

 

£25 seems like a lot of money for what must be at the very outside 15 minutes work...

 

Just thinking about all the TV investigations that went on around how much in work hours bank admin charges cost and it came out at about £2.50!

 

The mark-up seems a trifle excessive to me, that's all...

 

Thanks for your reply!

[crem]

I agree these charges clearly are just profiteering, but they are within the scope of what legally speaking would be seen as "reasonable".

 

I have a number of cars that often require some type of change to their details such as changing the driver on the insurance or swap private plates around and the majority of companies I deal with can do such changes while I am on the phone to them in 30 seconds flat without a charge. 1 or 2 of them though, take every opportunity to add thes "admin" charges on for every change when it clearly can't take them any longer to do the change than my "good" companies.

 

As Al27 says though, all you can do is vote with your feet, and I for my part make a note of which companies I fall foul of and take them off my "who to use in future" list.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

To me it seems within a "reasonable range".

 

The real issue is did you agree to this charge at this leve in the terms and conditions of the hire agreement?

[sailor sam]

I hire from Enterprise on a regular basis. It is included in the RA when you take the vehicle out but is only charged if the ticket stands (for some reason). If the ticket is cancelled, the 'admin' charge (which is £35 from the branch I use) is not made.

 

Having said that, as BTB states check your RA for the T & C's. On mine its stated on the front and the agent is suppose to explain and get you to sign next to it.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[My Real Name]

Is there a test for what constitutes "reasonable" - a number of posters have alluded to thinking that the £25 is a reasonable amount to charge for forwarding a letter and filling a form.

[Al27]

It probably is in the world of work. At £60 an hour for a skilled professional, £25 for an unrequested bit of admin is about right I'm afraid.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Is there a test for what constitutes "reasonable" - a number of posters have alluded to thinking that the £25 is a reasonable amount to charge for forwarding a letter and filling a form.

 

"Reasonableness" is an objective test rather than subjective. This means it is a somewhat elastic view that changes with time and from person to person.

 

An old view is that it is what the "man on the Clapham Omnibus would think" this is a phrase said to have been coined by Sir Charles Bowen QC in 1903. Whilst hearing a case for negligence he said (though whether he originated it is disputed): 'We must ask ourselves what the man on the Clapham omnibus would think.'

 

Nowadays the test would probably not be expressed in such a way but the essential components are there - "what would the ordinary, right thinking person think?"

 

So in the circumstances of this thread, the responses suggest that a charge of £0 is reasonable but also that £25 is too. Possibly higher but probably not much. It is also valid to say that just because someone thinks £0 is reasonable it does not automatically mean that £25 is unreasonable.

 

As an aside, for public bodies there are the Wednesbury Rules which stem from the case Associated Provincial Picture Houses v Wednesbury Corporation [1948] these established the following tests to determine whether an act by a public body is unlawful:

 

• the corporation, in making that decision, took into account factors that ought not to have been taken into account, or
  
• the corporation failed to take account factors that ought to have been taken into account, or
  
• the decision was so unreasonable that no reasonable authority would ever consider imposing it.
  

[pin1onu]

FWIW I think their are two different items that you may get some mileage in court from.

 

Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts

 

Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2083

“Unfair Terms

5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

 

Here's a hypothetical analysis of the costs of processing. If the employee dealing with this matter is earning (national average) £24000 p.a. - the costs before tax is 11.53 per hour. I'll be generous and say it takes 20 minutes to process. Thats a cost of 3.84 and if you take it up to £5 to cover printing, paper, envelope etc I think you can demonstrate they are making a profit, and not seeking re-imbursement of actual costs. Sounds like a penalty charge to me

 

If the charge was between £5-10 I would say just pay it. However £25 is taking the p**s.

[lamma]

use FTE cost not just bare salary cost.

[sailor sam]

The problem is with all this is that Enterprise have it on their RA and when you sign for the car, their operative will explain the admin charge and ask you to sign that you agree. If you refuse, they will not hire you the car. Not sure you can bring these arguments in at a later stage (although I agree the charge is disproportinate).

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[my-spirit-soars-free]

FWIW I think their are two different items that you may get some mileage in court from.

 

Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts

 

Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2083

“Unfair Terms

5. - (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

(2) A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

 

Here's a hypothetical analysis of the costs of processing. If the employee dealing with this matter is earning (national average) £24000 p.a. - the costs before tax is 11.53 per hour. I'll be generous and say it takes 20 minutes to process. Thats a cost of 3.84 and if you take it up to £5 to cover printing, paper, envelope etc I think you can demonstrate they are making a profit, and not seeking re-imbursement of actual costs. Sounds like a penalty charge to me

 

If the charge was between £5-10 I would say just pay it. However £25 is taking the p**s.

 

 

 

The employer also pays the employees NI, pension,sick pay, holiday pay etc. When I worked on costings we used twice the actual pay rate as the rough cost of employing someone - so round it up to a rough £8. The person is also managed, and trained in the job, so you need to allow for some payroll costs for the manager, and training in the job - no idea how many tickets you can get processed per training session, depends on staff turnover etc, but it is reasonable to charge for it.

 

You also have to allow for a contribution to the costs of running the business, there is some of the building that is needed to house the person doing the job, they need a desk, computer, heating, canteen, payroll, human resources team - and all these costs can reasonably be apportioned as well.

 

After all that lot, I would guess that £25 for a fair guess at a reasonable rate.

[lamma]

FTE costs variance will depend on salary level and benefits etc but double seems to be overbudgeting to me.

[enterprisecares]

Hello

 

I was clocked speeding at 82 mph on a dual carriageway limit of 70mph recently.

 

I was in a hire car at the time and the hire car company, (Enterprise Car Company) have charged my credit card with a £25 'admin' fee.

 

Is this admin fee challengeable, (as in, the banks are having to prove manual intervention and how long it took, so would the hire car company have to do the same?)

 

All I have received is a standard letter, so I fail to see how much 'admin' they've done.

 

All thoughts gratefully received.

 

Many thanks

 

221b

 

Sorry for any frustration over this administration fee. For more information or to inquire about challening it, please phone the location where you rented from. For more information you may also visit Enterprise Rent-A-Car UK - Car Hire, Low Rates, Van Hire

 

- Elizabeth with Enterprise Rent-A-Car

[My Real Name]

The employer also pays the employees NI, pension,sick pay, holiday pay etc. When I worked on costings we used twice the actual pay rate as the rough cost of employing someone - so round it up to a rough £8. The person is also managed, and trained in the job, so you need to allow for some payroll costs for the manager, and training in the job - no idea how many tickets you can get processed per training session, depends on staff turnover etc, but it is reasonable to charge for it.

 

You also have to allow for a contribution to the costs of running the business, there is some of the building that is needed to house the person doing the job, they need a desk, computer, heating, canteen, payroll, human resources team - and all these costs can reasonably be apportioned as well.

 

After all that lot, I would guess that £25 for a fair guess at a reasonable rate.

Conversely, it would not be reasonable to charge for fixed costs, only the marginal cost of processing the ticket. It would be awfully difficult to demonstrate the increase in heating required to process an extra ticket. What if there were two tickets in succession? Should the OP have demanded that a jersey was purchased?

[pin1onu]

The problem is with all this is that Enterprise have it on their RA and when you sign for the car, their operative will explain the admin charge and ask you to sign that you agree. If you refuse, they will not hire you the car. Not sure you can bring these arguments in at a later stage (although I agree the charge is disproportinate).

It has been my understanding that if a contract term is unlawful or illegal then that part of the contract is null and void and is disregarded. Even if the charge is pointed out to you and you agree it, it cannot be enforced.

 

Bringing a dispute after the fact does not stop it being wrong, although the banks would have you beleive otherwise. i.e. they have advertised their charges and you are assumed to have agreed with them. The UTCC legislation clearly challenges this.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

It has been my understanding that if a contract term is unlawful or illegal then that part of the contract is null and void and is disregarded. Even if the charge is pointed out to you and you agree it, it cannot be enforced.

 

I don't think that is in dispute. The issue is whether it is in fact unlawful or illegal and that is open to (reasonable) debate.

 

If I was the OP I'd be taking up enterprise on their posted invitation.