Another ESA Nightmare

[twinkletoes66]

Sorry this might be long Im not sure whether Im looking for support or advice, maybe a bit of both if thats ok.

I have epilepsy, psoriatic arthritis, depression, hypothyroidism and have recently been diagnosed with inverse psoriasis (Which is in a private area)

 

Went for my assessment on the 16 May and the physical left me in so much pain with my back I ended up at the doctors. the assessment was done by a nurse and when I told her the tasks were going to hurt she said "Do what you can" and stood waiting...I had to lie down and raise both legs while she tried to force them down, I had to try and push them down while she had her hands underneath trying to force them up, then I had to bring each knee up to my waist and push it to the outside.

 

I put in a complaint to Atos - and the DWP about the medical, and I requested the name and qualifications of the person who reviewed my ESA form and decided I needed a medical, and I asked for the same of the nurse (All by email) I received a reply saying they would forward it to the medical team at the DWP.

I also contacted my MP and complained, and said I dont know what these sort of tasks done while lying down have on anyones ability to work. And I told him I still had to do the tasks even though they were causing me pain.

The MP has said he will contact Atos on my behalf and get back to me.

I rang the DWP and asked for a copy of the examiners report and was told it would be with me within the week, over two weeks later it still isnt here...(I also told my MP this)

 

This is where it gets interesting...

I received a letter three days ago from the DWP saying they will stop taking deductions from me as "I will no longer get ESA" Obviously I failed the medical. Either they sent this letter in error not realising I havent been informed I failed the medical, or theyre purposely going to inform me when my sick note runs out (on the 10th) and when Im due to be paid - also on the 10th.

Does anyone know what my next step should be? Can I appeal knowing I failed the assessment but havent got the formal notification?

 

I had one of these assessments over a year ago and the "doctor" lied through his teeth in his report, I didnt have the strength to fight it but this time they wont get away with it!

 

Im thinking of going to a solicitor and asking where I stand, but cant really do anything until I see this report and receive word about the assessment.

[loan_ranger]

Hi twinkletoes66,

a rough medical indeed. I always wondered what became of Dr. Mengele's nurses after the fall of nazi Germany.

 

There really isn't any suggestions I can give you that you haven't already said yourself. S'pose you might just have to wait for the formal notification from the DWP and immediately appeal the decision if it's unfavourable.

 

Someone more useful than I may come along later with something better to say.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Paul.

[twinkletoes66]

Thanks for the reply Paul. Its got me really worried Im due to get my ESA this Thursday and I have gas and electric meters, I also have rent arrears to pay which has already been to court, if I miss one payment Im out.

The letter says the deductions stopped on the 27th May, so obviously the decision was made then or before then, nearly two weeks ago! Im livid! They can manage to send me a letter saying theyre stopping my deductions because I will no longer get ESA, but they cant send the reports Ive asked for or even the decision they made regarding my assessment.

[loan_ranger]

I think the ESA is paid a fortnight in arrears so we'll have to keep our fingers crossed. Let us know if it doesn't come Thursday and I'll help you with what you need to say if you have to apply for a Crisis Loan, don't wait till Friday because CL BDCs can get hectic then and you may not get through.

Paul.

[twinkletoes66]

Thanks again Paul. My last payment was the 27th, which is when it says on the letter the deductions stopped so I bet that was my last payment from them. Im expecting a letter saying I failed the assessment and payments have stopped from that date, they have a habit of springing it on people when theyre expecting a payment. Im sure it is paid in arrears so if my sick note runs out on the 10th of this month does that mean I need it in before then or before the payment after the 10th if its two weeks in arrears? Normally I get a letter saying I have to renew my sicknote but havent had one yet.

 

 

Sorry just thought I should say - Im not being lazy by not ringing them to find out, my internet is through a dongle that my daughter got for me, I dont have a landline or credit on my mobile and its a 4 mile hike to the nearest office.

Edited June 7, 2010 by twinkletoes66

[loan_ranger]

If your ESA stops you only have 2 courses of action to choose from: Either, you appeal the decision, or, you apply for JSA (they don't move you automatically, you'll need to fill in the application form). Whichever you decide this needs to be done in order to avoid a gap in your entitlement. If your health situation remains as it is now, then you will need to have a med cert for the appeal or for JSA as soon as your current one expires and get it in to where ever it needs to go. Then you have the added complication of your failed WCA/ESA notification eventually reaching you later via 'Limbo' or elsewhere. So long as you have done everything possible to fulfil your obligations to JCP/DWP without undue delay your benefits will be legally safe although your payments are quite likely to be delayed for a while by processing delays caused by the DWP's inefficiency. That's where you might need to apply for the Crisis Loan(s) to make ends meet until benefit is restored with a backdate. If you are getting Housing Benefit, LHA, CTB etc. inform your council immediately (preferably in writing at their offices and ask for a photocopy with their date stamp on it as proof, I do this all the time!) of your changed circumstances re. JCP/DWP benefits, otherwise you will have a nasty surprise when the council stops these following notification by JCP/DWP that ESA has ceased to be paid, don't rely on them to inform the council of your renewed entitlement to benefits because fraud prevention is the name of this game, helping you plays no part in it.

 

The DWP mail processes defy 'normal' logic so it's not inconceivable for a letter from the deductions crew to overtake a letter from the ESA crew who notified them at deductions first, having a "head start" becomes meaningless in the 'topsy turvy' world of DWP mail.

 

In order for me to comment on whether you can expect some money in your account I would need to know if 27 May is the start of the benefit period (of 2 weeks I'd assume) or is that the end of the previous one, I can only hope that they mean the start so if you've not received any money in the bank from them between 27 May and the present, then I would presume that one last fortnightly payment is forthcoming. However I'm more inclined to think that 27 May was the end and that you'll need to go into overdrive and make frantic phone calls on your next pay-day, I say this because my fortnightly incapacity benefit almost invariably reaches my account one day before the end of each benefits period. Be sure to check your account when your normal pay-day is due (10 July?) and if it isn't, then phone them ASAP to ask why.

 

In regard to your appeal or JSA application, they can hardly expect you to take action until you've received notification - time travel is still pure sci-fi.

Yes, delayed payments and inconvenience to yourself are almost sure to happen, I guess it's all just part of the 'master-plan' to make claiming benefits humiliating and demeaning.

 

Kindest regards,

Paul.

Edited June 7, 2010 by loan_ranger

[patrickq1]

JSA as soon as your current one expires and get it in to where ever it needs to go.

make sure it is taken into the DWP and someone at the desk signs for it,they have a nasty habbit of losing things...

patrickq1

[twinkletoes66]

If my ESA stops I only have one choice, I will appeal. They screwed me over before, the last medical I had the so called doctor lied in his report and I was too frazzled by it all so went onto Jobseekers. Then the Psoriatic Arthritis kicked off so a year later Im back but they wont be having a laugh at my expense this time Im fighting back.

Ive emailed my MP again, and Im complaining left right and centre to and about these people.

I think youre right about the 27th being the last payment Im getting from them, or the deductions would finish on the 10th (when Im due payment) So I`ll go to the office on Friday to use the phone, I cant go Thursday as I have a sedation at the dentist Ive waited so long for it and if I miss this chance I wont get another as they only allocate 12 every year.

So I will be spitting blood literally on Thursday.

I dont know how I will handle the council, no way will they let me pay the arrears late even if I were to catch up, last time I had problems with my benefit I tried explaining and said it would only be a week or so late, they didnt want to know and sent me a summons for court! Bunch of Atossers!!!

I`ve noticed how quick the DWP are letting the council know youre not on benefits any more, yet they dont do you the same favour when theyre reinstated! And I cant believe they can let everyone else know of the decision they came to, the council, deductions Dept etc when they havent even let me know! I dont get paid into an account at the minute it comes by cheque, Id bet my life theyre going to send me the failure letter instead of it, Im sure thats what theyre hanging on for. I think maybe I antagonised them by complaining and setting my MP onto them. Ive heard they play with you if you complain.

[twinkletoes66]

Thanks patrickq1 but I could never stick to the agreement for JSA, it really isnt an option for me.

[RaeUK]

Personally, twinkletoes, I would call the DWP and enquire. I appreciate you don't have a landline or mobile credit - though I think it's a free call these days???

To be fair, I've always found my local DWP call centre very helpfull and they sent the necesary form as soon as I requested it, I returned it the next day and had no break in the payment of the assessment rate. You will still need to send in medical certificates.

Best wishes

Rae

[twinkletoes66]

Its a freephone number to ring ESA but the number you have to ring for the reports is 0845, even to ring the freephone number you have to have credit with Orange to be able to make the call even though its free.

I have already rang the DWP and asked for a copy of the examiners report, she said it would be with me within the week, this was two weeks ago and its not here. You have no proof over the phone of anything thats said, so when the reports didnt turn up I sent emails enquiring but had no reply.

My daughter is bringing her phone tomorrow and I will ring again. I know I need to send in sick notes, and also have to when I appeal. My complaint is the time theyre taking sending me the notification when they made their decision either on or before the 27th of last month, and the fact that they havent sent the report, thats the only form I asked for and Ive done it three times.

[RaeUK]

No worries, the point I was trying to make is that - irrespective of having not received official notification of ESA ceasing - you can call your DWP call centre and request a form to appeal. [G24????]

In my case, I found out I'd failed my assessment when calling on another matter. The DWP operative saw it on the screen and informed me. She then asked if I'd like to appeal and explained the process. I received the appeal form a day or two later and sent it back the day after that. Therefore I didn't suffer a break in the payment of ESA (which I could not afford!).

As for the ATOS full medical report, that will be included in the mile high pile of bumpf you'll be sent in due course anyway and long before your tribunal.

Best wishes

Rae

[twinkletoes66]

Thanks Kelcou,

It would probably help to see what the nurse has wrote in her report. It cant be good if I failed, I was in so much pain doing those tasks I was in tears, and thats just the arthritis - epilepsy gets you enough points on its own when youre having 2 or 3 fits a week, then I have depression and I told her I often think of ending it all. She must have lied in her report, either that or the DM is crazy. I might actually go to the office tomorrow and pick an appeal form up but dont I need to say why I think the decision is wrong? I wont know what to appeal against when I havent seen what the nurse has wrote and saw why they came to the decision.

[RaeUK]

Hi hunni, several issues here. First and foremost don't get too hung up on the lies that have or haven't been told. Failing the assessment irrespective of how you were on the day is par for the course. The computerised system is stacked against you anyway.

You can appeal the DWP decision makers decision. You can supply evidence if you want supporting your claim. The chances are, however, that the DWP will uphold the decision anyway.

Or you can send in a form G24 [???] to request an appeal to the tribunal service. Your case will be reviewed as a matter of course before being sent to the tribunal service. You will have many many many months in which to gather evidence and you will be sent the DWPs bumpf as routine.

The tribunal will be far more interested in you, your condition and your medical history than the DWP will be.

Best wishes

Rae

[twinkletoes66]

Im hung up already Kelcou about the lies they tell, people like this shouldnt be allowed to clean a bedpan never mind assess sick people, there have been so many people hurt and bewildered by the lies they come out with.

If that nurse has lied about me Im going to see a solicitor and take it as far as I can, then maybe she wont do it again to anyone else. She tried to twist and pull stuff out of me when I didnt tell her what she wanted to hear, very snippy she was... When she asked me if I can make myself a cup of tea I said no I dont drink tea anyway. She snapped "well can you make yourself juice then??!! water??!!well what??!!" She was puce! I drink milk I said. Obviously if you can "make yourself some water" you can work full time and shouldnt be there, and because I said I drink milk I am no doubt fit for work.

 

Anyway...how do I appeal against the decision if I dont know exactly what points Im disagreeing with? Ive heard of the form that people write on saying they disagree with what the examiner has said, and say stuff like "I should have x amount of points for my condition" and "I disagree with the examiner saying I can sit and stand with no problems as I can only sit and stand for x minutes" etc..

Is this not what Im supposed to send with my appeal?

[RaeUK]

Sounds like you had one of ATOSHs more skilled personal then, twinkletoes!

 

When I say 'don't get hung up on the lies' I'm not saying they're not important - have a mooch about some of the ESA related threads here if you haven't already done so - Up the revolution!

 

At the moment you won't know much. But surely the most important thing is not to lose your fortnightly payments? That was my number one concern anyway.

 

So, you let the DWP know you disagree with their decision and you wish to go to tribunal. You fill in the form and include any evidence you happen to have regarding your condition. [Don't worry about ATOSH at this stage] This triggers a continuation of payment at the assessment rate. So that's the immediate problem sorted.

 

The DWP will reconsider - usually say they have made the right decision - and off it goes into the tribunal waiting list. It'll be about 3-6 weeks before the DWP do this. Then you have an average wait of 8-9 months before your tribunal. Within a month or two you will receive a stack of paperwork from the tribunal service. This will include the full assesment report by ATOSH. This gives you several months to go through it with a fine tooth comb and address the lies and errors. You can send additional information and supporting evidence to the tribunal service up to 7-14 days before your actual hearing...

Best wishes

Rae

[ErikaPNP]

You send in what points you think you should have been awarded with your submission to the tribunal service - this comes after the appeal is sent in to DWP (the tribunal service will write to you inviting you to make your submission). Until you receive all of the papers in relation to your claim from DWP (which they do not send until the appeal is underway) you have nothing on which to base your submission on, and won't know what points you have been awarded.

 

On your appeal, you simply give grounds for appeal. If it is because of the medical, DWP will send you a letter telling you the reason for their decision. It will be along the lines of "it has been decided that you do not have limited capability for work". You then appeal on the GL24 and state that you disagree because ...... then state what it is that limits your working capability. If you have further evidence, send this in with the GL24.

[ErikaPNP]

Crossed posts with Kelcou. What she said!

[twinkletoes66]

Thank you for the advice all of you its much appreciated.

I know what youre saying Kelcou about getting my payments restarted and leaving Atos for now and youre right. Ive got myself so worked up about Atos after my last medical, and reading the stories of what people have gone through its hard to stay calm and I know I should. I should have had that report from the DWP though, regardless of whether I passed or not I wanted to see what she wrote about me and by law theyre supposed to send them when you ask, theyve deliberately held back with it.

Im going to get it underway and get that form done. The one thing Im worried about is the nurse asked me if Id had counselling and I havent, and she asked me who I see for the epilepsy and I dont see anyone, she seemed quite pleased with this and typed something on the laptop. So I think this might go against me, the thing is though my conditions only really kicked off when I lost my dad four years ago, I had been fit free for about 15 years so didnt need to see anyone. Maybe they will say I should be taking more meds which is a worry in itself, my relative has a friend and he has had to start taking meds for ADHD, Im not sure whether it was under DWP or Atos instructions but he passed the assessment, got a letter through his door saying he had to go to the docs to pick up a prescription, and has to go back to Atos in three months after taking the meds to see if they have helped him be fit for work. And they say these departments have no power over GPs? It looks like someone somewhere has...

[twinkletoes66]

How strange....

Ive just been on the phone to the DWP, there was no record of me asking for the examiners report but the very nice guy said he would get it sent out, along with the appeal form. He said the only request on their system was from a Mr Hampshire (Atos Manager - as I had complained about the medical and the pain it caused me, hes obviously investigating)

My sick note gives me up until the 11th so I will need to renew it after that, and the very strange thing is there is nothing on their system to say I have passed or failed the medical, and nothing to say that my payment has been suspended or wont get to me as usual on Thursday, yet that letter came from the deductions team saying my deductions will stop as I will no longer get ESA.

Any ideas anyone? If theyre going to cancel my payment surely it would be done by now? It would go in the post tomorrow. The only thing I can think of is they know its been investigated and they took off the suspension? Or maybe it takes a while to show on the system if my payment is suspended? I asked the person I spoke to he had no idea. Its very strange theres nothing on the system yet I got that letter last week

[RaeUK]

Hi twinkletoes, strange things do seem to happen don't they? However, this is far more to do with general levels of incompetence than anything else. It can take a little time for info to pass from one department to the other - which is pretty good going, even for the DWP, in this age of instant information! I'd just carry on with filling the appeal form and returning it irrespective...

Must say, I haven't heard of ATOS / DWP prescribing medication for people.

Best wishes

Rae

[honeybee13]

Hi twinkletoes. Rae is right about Atos and the DWP. A quick read of the forum will show you how many other people are having similar problems, which may or may not be a comfort to you. Before you go full pelt down the conspiracy route, you should consider the possibility of a good old-fashioned c**k-up.

 

I don't think Atos or the DWP can prescribe, can they? I don't even know offhand if they can make suggestions like that to your GP, it sounds very odd to me.

 

HB

[twinkletoes66]

I know its odd the thought that either Atos or the DWP can order someone to take meds, maybe they make some suggestion to the claimants GP or something regarding treatment and work, I have no idea, just that this person got a letter through his door saying he had to go to his GP to get meds, and he has go for a review with Atos in three months so they can check to see if the meds are working, funny they havent just told him to see his specialist or GP to see if theyre working

...I found this below in an article -

 

"Last but not least: the issue of compulsory medical treatment

Originally, ‘work-focused activity’ could include compulsory medical treatment. However, on 22 June 2009 an amendment of the section 14 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007 was presented to the House of Commons, which excluded medical treatment [Hansard, 22 June 2009]. However, we still need to be alert. Although accepting medical treatment is not explicitly part of a ‘work-focused activity’, it can still be a condition for entitlement to ESA, as it has been in the past for Incapacity benefit and Disability Living Allowance – with the approval of Social Security judges."

 

Reading that makes me quite uncomfortable...makes you wonder whats coming next. But by the looks of the Parliament debates Ive been reading Atos and their sham medical days are numbered.

[cbbc]

Hi, What have you been reading, I'd love to read about ATOS losing their contract or at least having to change this ridiculous points system.

It makes so much more sense to involve our own G.P's, surgeons and specialists in the medical decision. These professionals have already been paid by the tax payers through the NHS, why involve anyone else? I think it is because the government would not be able to order our own doctors to lie.

[ErikaPNP]

Hi twinkle toes.

 

In regard to the requesting of data from DWP they have 40 days to comply with this if it is requested in writing. They can also charge for this up to a statutory maximum of £10, though they usually do waive the fee. This is outlined in section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

For a statement of reasons about why your claim was refused, by law (section 28 of The decisions and appeals regs 1999) they have 14 days in which to comply. A statement of reasons will not include the medical report but it may refer to statements made within it.

 

Hope this helps.