Northern Rock are Laughing at my claim? (Not anymore) *WON*

[Maximus69]

Hi Guys,

been away on biz last week and did not want to rush my response letter. Anyhow sent my letter off today which was a copy of Zoot's letter amended slightly with the tail end copied off the LBA template letter. Except this time I have said it is my final letter before making a claim in court and have only given them 7 days to respond.

I have also sent it recorded delivery so one of the bankers have to sign for it and i have a tracking facility on the Royal Mail website so i can see exactly what day and time it was signed for.

I will keep you guys posted as soon as i have a reply.

 

Cheers

 

Ned.

[Maximus69]

Doin god John R.

Yeah, Peterbard go gat your own thread!!

Ned

[lancsman]

Hi Ned Not God at all just makes it less confusin n i can easily b confused....

 

Why are you only giving them 7 days?surely you /we have to show the courts that we,re being fair?

[Maximus69]

Miss Pickles suggested it:o . Because they have already had 14 days with the first LBA i sent them and I thought it will show them i am serious?

Plus LM sarcastic replies have started to boil my pias!!

I reckon she is a sad old carpet muncher.

 

Letter back today saying it has been passed over to their legals as usual. Expecting another sarcastic response. Am already researching how to fill in my Money Claim form etc.

 

Keep you posted.

 

Cheers

 

Ned.

[lancsman]

Theres plenty of info on it i filled in extra info in the extra info bit!.They do say in the small claims book it's polite to send copies to their solicitors when they appoint them.or so i remember anyway.

Who,s L.M and what is piass is it like weeeeeeee!

[Maximus69]

LM is Lynne Mathews the customer support manager for NR. Yes it means weee but i did not want to swear on here:smile: .

 

Cheers

 

Ned

[Maximus69]

Hi guys,

 

well as expected, I got a reply back from N/Rock today. Here is the main parts of it.

NR does not consider insufficient funds in your account to constitute a breach of contract. The T&C's envisage that your c/account may be in 1 of 3 states; in credit;in an authorised overdraft or an unauthorised position. Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd(1915) clearly stipulates that the ? as to whether a charge is a penalty is to be decided on the terms of each contract. In moving to a position of unauthorised overdraft your c/a is still within a position envisaged by the T&C's. Accordingly, you are not in breach of contract and therefore the issue of damages for breach does not arise. As a matter of law, the courts will only find that a contractual term represents a penalty where, on breach of contract , that term provides for a measure of damages that is not considered to represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

 

Further, there can be no suggestion that the charges represent an unfair term under the Unfair Terms In Consumers Contracts Regulations 1999("the Regulations"). You should be aware that the regulation 6(2) sets out that they do not apply to core terms of the contract and nor do they apply to the adequacy of the bargain between the parties to a contract. The charges for services provided under your c/a go to the heart of the contract between N/R plc and yourselfand in addition, very clearly go to the adequacy of the bargain between it and you. For these reasons, in accordance with regulation 6(2), the Regulations are not applicable to the charges applied to your c/a and those charges are not unfair terms.

 

In addition, as previously stated in our previous letters, if your request is intended to represent a Data Subject Access Request under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1988, please send your request in writing and a cheque for £10. ( I am not aware that i have requested this in the template letters, have I?)

 

With regard to the threat of court proceedings, N/R plc looks forward to receiving your substantive response to the issues raised in its previous letters. N/R plc does not consider that your letters (template ones by the way) disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against it, and nor, if such a claim were issue, that it would have any prospect of success.

 

In light of having to restate the legal position, it is strongly recommended that you seek independent legal advice if you are unsure as to the meaning of any of the above.

 

Are they not just repeating much the same mumbo jumbo as last time? What now, do I slap a Money Claim form on them or what? Or do I have to reply to them a 5th time. I think they are just taking the peeece out of me/

 

Words of advice would be greatly appreciated guys!!

 

Phew, I need a drink.

 

Cheers

 

Ned.

[lancsman]

So theyre not penalty charges.They must be charges for a service,read elswere on here that they should be a fair and reasonable mark up for a high street business.that means 100% or so?Their is a proper letter with this in,i had saved it all but have had a disaster and lost most of my saved goodies which i was going to use against Lloyds so i,l have to start again???

have a look

[zootscoot]

Are they not just repeating much the same mumbo jumbo as last time?[

 

Yes

 

do I slap a Money Claim form on them or what?

 

Absolutely

 

Or do I have to reply to them a 5th time.

 

No you've waited far too long

 

I think they are just taking the peeece out of me/

 

 

 

No they are just taking the peeece full stop.

 

Whack a money claim on and let them explain to the court that you have not breached your contract. It'll be worth the court fee just for the entertainment. But really there is no way they would put that argument in a court of law.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

 

 

 

[Maximus69]

Cheers Guys. I will read thru the Moneyclaim form again over the weekend and slap a 1 in next week.

 

Bring it on u bankers:mad:

 

Cheers

 

Ned

[Maximus69]

Hi Guys,

 

after getting a reply back from another member today to confirm the BANKERS defended and then settled in full days later, I have submitted my claim on line some 5 mins ago.

 

What if they settle in full, can I refuse it and state I want my day in court to have my case heard and hopefully publicly shame the bankers? From all the threads and FAQS etc, it seems the banks do not have a case at all, hence them settling before the court date on every occasion?

 

I am looking for opinions here guys, what do you think. Should i just take the money and run or make a stand and shame the bankers in public? Or will this spoil it for future claimants? Because I would not want to do that.

 

Cheers

 

Ned

[zootscoot]

If they offer the full amount you have to take it. You can not then pursue the case in court as it will only be struck out.

 

Best of luck

 

Zoot

[Welshman]

The judge will hold a very dim view if, having been offered the full settlement, you were going ahead and wasted the courts' time.

[lancsman]

Agree with zootscoot and welshman you are obliged to take settlement if offered and it will be usually right on the mark of what you are claiming or more...

You can write to Ms Marjorie Wilson @The Office Of Fair Trading.2-6 Salisbury Way.London.(don,t know the postcode!) to tell them of the shoddy way you have been treated by your bank AND their is a letter in templates for your M.P.

[Maximus69]

Thanks John,

 

I was thinking about writing into NR after they have settled in full. I was going to complain about their general attitude and treatment over the years, bearing in mind i was employed by them for 3 years.

 

I was also going to ask them what form of compensation they were prepared to offer in light of the above? After all i am so incensed at their treatment that I have got the main local newspaper here in sunny Newcastle interested in my story. After my settlement of course. What do you think? Or should i just let them off the hook?

 

Cheers

Ned

[Maximus69]

Hi Guys,

 

well here is the latest update on my case against N/Rock.

 

Notice served on them on 18/10/06.

Acknowledged on 20/10/06.

Defending all of claim. Peter Ashcroft instructed as defendant's solicitor.

 

Bankers have 28 days from date of claim. Hope they don't settle so I can have my day in court. They have not got a leg to stand on and will be laughed out of court.

 

Either way, I look forward to getting my money back one way or the other.

 

Catch u guys later!!

 

Cheers

 

Ned

[phatram]

Any news?

[Maximus69]

Hi,

 

yes i have, just been to busy to update the forum. Will do it at the weekend when i can share the good news with everybody. NR sent me a check for the full claim of over £3k including my £120 court fee as well as daily interest right up until the day the cheques was issued.

 

They gave the reason as " for commercial expediency and without admission of liability blah blah blah".

 

There 28 day deadline was 16/11 and i got the cheque on the 13/11.

 

Easy peesy, oh and by the way i claimed all charges for all overdraft and d/d charges, never mind working out which ones were legit and which ones weren,t?

 

Just go for it, they always pay up. They will acknowledge your claim saying they intend to defent the full claim. This then buys the the 28 days before they roll over.

 

PS.

 

There was a court case in Southend the other week and the judge ruled in the favour of the client against both banks, Lloyds TSB and Barclays I think. So even the courts on our side. SO go for it and rip their bol>>>ks off!!

 

Good Luck.

 

Cheers

Ned.

[zootscoot]

Congratulations Ned!

 

and to think you very nearly gave this one up! Enjoy your payout and don't forget to fill out the survey. I'll arrange for your title to be changed.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[PhantomReclaimer]

Hi Miss P.

Basically I wrote in and requested 6 years charges applied to my current account. They sent these out and they came to nearly £3000. I then wrote to them claiming a full refund as the charges applied were deemed as unfair and unlawful.

They then replied denying that the charges applied were unlawful, unfair or represented a penalty. Under there T&C's they supply services to me and apply charges and interest in return for these services. I had signed to say that I had read and understood these T&C's.

There are 3 states of position of my account, in credit,authorised and un-authorised overdraft situations. They say my account is still envisaged as being in a position within the T&C's and therefore not in breach. Then they claim under law, a penalty where there is a breach of contract and the measure of damages is not considered to represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss. In summary, the charges are for services provided.

 

I then sent a 3/4 LBA template letter. They replied with the folllowing;

 

It appears from your letter that you have failed to grasp or chosen to ignore the key legal issues in relation to charges for services provided etc.

 

Charges on current accounts are for services provided and are not default charges.

 

In law, for a clause to be deemed a penalty clause, it has to operate due to a breach of contract.

 

The current account charges are entirely lawful, they are not an illegal penalty and nor are they unfair or unenforceable.

 

Northern Rock looks forward to to receiving your substantive response to the legal points raised in this letter and the other letters.We do not consider that your letters disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against it, nor if such a claim were issued, that it would have any prospect of success.

 

What I need to be sure of from this point, is what kind of response to i reply with. As suggested, maybe an exact copy of the LBA template letter or do i need to respond to their queries they have raised.

 

HELP. :?

 

Cheers

 

Malcolm

 

Sorry to enter this thread late but I've just had that same letter from NR.

 

I love this bit about their T&C's envisaging your being in "three states of existence", or whatever they decide to call it and that you are never in breach. It's just total tosh. The copy of the T&C's they have sent me clearly states "You must kep your account in credit or within any agreed overdraft". It simply could not be any clearer than that. Therefore if you don't stay within your OD you are in breach. End of story. They even say in the very next sentence, "Should we allow your account to become overdrawn above any agreed limit this does not constitute agreement to a new limit". If they haven't agreed to something then you can only be in breach.

 

P.