Krisg V MBNA Debt sold to Direct Legal-DTL

[krisg]

I’ve been paying reduced payments to MBNA via the CAB

 

I received a default (Attached) notice letter on the 7th of May giving me until 25th of May to bring the account up to date and out of arrears

 

On receiving this letter I sent a CCA request to MBNA

 

I now have another letter (Attached) from MBNA telling me the debt as now been sold to Direct Legal-DTL. Additionally the account number on the this letter is different than the default letter

 

Can they sell the debt at this point and who should provide me with the CCA request

 

Do I need to contact Direct Legal-DTL or MBNA

[Andy01]

Hi Kris send them "Account in Dispute" letter to DTL. Amend it as required. DON'T sign it just print your name.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: xxxxxxxx

Your Ref: xxxxxxxxx

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated xxxxxx

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to your company called xxxxxxx

 

This account is in dispute with original creditor MBNA and has been since xxxxxxx 2010. Not only is this a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading’s debt collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My previous dispute from xxxxxx has NOT been answered.

 

As original creditor xxxxxxx are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act agreement request and have also breached *s10 Data Protection Act request , I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in defaultenforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Also, note that while the account relating to the reference number above remains in strong dispute, you are not allowed to pass it on to any third party. Should you do so, further complaints will be made to the relevant authorities outlined above.

 

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the xxxxxx for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as xxxxx cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If xxxx chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

 

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 in line with the Office Of Fair Trading’s Collection Guidelines

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I look forward to your reply that this matter is now closed and that you have totally removed my data from your system.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter so therefore I look forward to hearing from you ONLY in writing not any other way of communications.

 

 

Yours faithfully

[krisg]

Hi Any

 

Thanks for the reply

 

DTL have not sent me any letters as yet. The two letters posted are from MBNA. Do I need to wait for a letter from DTL before sending the dispute letter

[Andy01]

Yes wait untill you recieve reply from DTL

[krisg]

I sent the Account in Dispute letter to DTL with an SAR request and unlawful recindment to MBNA.

 

The account was sold to DTL before the default notice expired. Would this make the agreement un-forcible or can they do that ?

 

DTL have sent me my CCA agreement I’ve attached it. It looks like a microfiche copy with some lose terms attached

 

I would really appreciate advise on what the best thing to do next is

CCA.PDF

terms.pdf

[krisg]

HELP

------------------------------

Upadate as follows

 

 

The default notice gives me to 25th May 2010

 

CCA request sent

 

Received letter from MBNA dated 19th May saying debt was sold please contact DLC

 

Received letter from DLC dated 24th May saying they own it

 

Received letter back from MBNA regarding unlawful recidinment. (ATTACHED)

 

They say the debt wasn’t sold to DTL on 19th May but was put up for sale and was sold later in the month (They even say 2009 instead of 2010)

 

I have two letters saying the debt was sold before the 25th May 2010 I’m still waiting for my SAR agreement.

 

Should I now just wait until I receive the SAR request or is there anything else that can be done in the mean time with regard the CCA sent by DLC

mbna-replyto recidment.PDF

[supasnooper]

I can't read the DN in post 1 as it is too small.

 

Do you still have the envelope that the DN was sent in ?

[krisg]

I’ve attached the default notice as pdf. Unfortunately i haven’t got the envelope

default.PDF

[pumpytums]

The DN is invalid insufficient time to rectify. The letter is dated 7th May which was a Friday, MBN@ always send them 2nd class, maybe you misplaced your envelope it should have a big S top right. So sent 10th May served on the 13th, date to rectify should have been 27th so at least 2 days short.

 

When you get your SAR info back it will show it was probably sold even earlier.

 

I have seen that reply letter to UR so many times, identified for sale I ask you muppets. The letter is very handy though as it does confirm that the account was terminated. I would of course decline to send them a copy of the DN as they no longer own the account.

 

Pumpytums

[krisg]

I reckon it was sold 24th. Should I now just wait for SAR before replying to DCA?

[krisg]

Just an update for anyone interested

 

Received another letter (Attached) from DLC saying they now own the loan (They already sent me the same letter dated 24th may)

Received letter from hilesden (Attached) saying they unaware of any valid dispute at the time of purchase but will look into it

 

Still no SAR from MBNA

dlc new own debt.PDF

hillesdens reply.PDF

[vint1954]

Krisg'

 

Can you just let us all know what you have done since the agreement was received?

 

Your DN is faulty in that it does not give the prescribed time to rectify the default. Additionally the form is incorrect in that it states you must rectify Before the date shown. They then go on to sell the debt before the rectification period.

 

They have now unlawfully rescinded the agreement, despite what their letter says. If you beleive the letter, it was identified for sale in May 2009. Idiots.

 

The key point is to identify the time of the sale from your SAR, or DLC's letter stating that they have purchaced the debt. Have you had the SAR back yet?

 

When you have that, then is the time to write to MBNA ponting out their folly and to DLC pointing out that they have purchaced a pup.

[krisg]

Hi Vint

 

I'm still waiting for the SAR from MBNA before I take anymore action

 

I've got a letter from the DLC dated 24th May saying they own the debt. Is this enough for court purposes?

 

 

One thing I've wondered is could MBNA forge the SAR details e.g change the sale date?

[davidoneman]

sorry to jump in but im in situation like this could you please have a look at mine http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/264370-court-papers-recieved-hillsden-4.html#post3014753

 

cheers

[Old Cogger]

The DN is invalid insufficient time to rectify. The letter is dated 7th May which was a Friday, MBN@ always send them 2nd class, maybe you misplaced your envelope it should have a big S top right. So sent 10th May served on the 13th, date to rectify should have been 27th so at least 2 days short.

 

When you get your SAR info back it will show it was probably sold even earlier.

 

I have seen that reply letter to UR so many times, identified for sale I ask you muppets. The letter is very handy though as it does confirm that the account was terminated. I would of course decline to send them a copy of the DN as they no longer own the account.

 

Pumpytums

 

Have got in hand a default notice from MBNA with the same dates as this one, was posted UK MAIL definatly big S.

[vint1954]

Hi Vint

 

I'm still waiting for the SAR from MBNA before I take anymore action

 

I've got a letter from the DLC dated 24th May saying they own the debt. Is this enough for court purposes?

 

 

One thing I've wondered is could MBNA forge the SAR details e.g change the sale date?

Hi krisg,

 

Regarding the SAR, it's 40 callendar days from receipt by them. If it is over that, then press them hard. You need to make sure that you get the screen dump. It would be difficult for them to change that.

 

If DLC wrote to you dated 24th, stating that they owned the debt, then that is a statutory notice and stands good as evidence. They may try and wriggle, but that will just be to put you off of the scent. Play the date issue low key for now until you get your SAR response.

[krisg]

Well just got the SAR back from MBNA and the sale date was 19th of May MBNA actually lied to me in saying it was sold later

 

Are there any standard letters TEMPLATES I should send to DTL and MBNA now or should I just point out this mistake again

 

is this still likely to go to court ?

 

cheers

[blueotter]

You can never rule out court action but based on what they've done again i'd say the chances are pretty remote they'll take you to court ,nevermind their chances of winning.

 

There's plenty on here who've received the same treatment from mbna,they seem to operate withing their own set of rules. I've a couple of accounts that are similar to yours,they're busy hanging out with experto at the moment and to be honest its been so long that i forget what actually happened ,what with invalid cca,s,dn's,sold without notice of assignment etc etc.

 

I',ve stopped making any payments until i hear from a dca as to what they'd like me to do as i just lost interest in going over the same points again and again and again.

[pumpytums]

If there was any hope of getting this through a court why didn't MBN@ take the action? MBN@ do take debtors to court and sadly they do win sometimes so if they have sold it that's a good sign.

 

Pumpytums

[krisg]

Update

 

Recently recieved a letter from APLINS solicitors threatening legal action

 

I'm going to send the following letter but thought it best I post on here before it goes. Any advise coments would be welcome. Also should I sign the letter ?

 

 

Dear sir/madam

 

Thank you for your letter dated 29th July 2010

Hillesdens Securities Ltd have been notified that the agreement (if indeed a valid and legally enforceable agreement existed), was unlawfully repudiated by MBNA and I accepted that unlawful repudiation. Therefore no agreement endures.

 

 

1. I have Subject access request proof from MBNA clearly indicating the Notice of Default was issued 7th May 2010 (received by me second class 12th of May 2010) with an Expiry of 25th May 2010.

 

 

2. I have Subject access request proof from MBNA informing me that the outstanding balance due under the above account has been sold to Direct Legal (Hillesden Securities Ltd) on the 18th of May 2010.

 

 

3. I have proof from DTL-Legal dated 24th May 2010 clearly stating the debt is owned by them

 

 

4. It is submitted that the Default Notice served s87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 failed to comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561).

 

 

5. The default Default Notice sent to me was not valid and didn’t allow for the statutory 14 clear days (from receipt) to rectify the breach. I also note that to be valid, a Default Notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237).

 

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I have taken legal advice on this matter and I would advise you that I do not consider that there is any contractual relationship existing between myself and Hillesden Securities Ltd

 

 

I trust this clarifies the situation for you and would ask you now to refer back to your client. Strangely, the envelope that your letter came in has an undelivered return address of dlc!

Edited August 2, 2010 by HSBCrusher
job done :-D

[krisg]

Update

 

 

 

 

Received interesting letter (Attached) back from MBNA still refusing unlawful ricindment. They are going again with the account was put up for sale and paid for later in the month by DTL Even though SAR says it was sold on the 18th.

 

Is the SAR 100% concrete evidence or could they get away with this. Is there a guaranteed way of knowing when the account was sold and when DTL paid them ?

 

 

Additionally if MBNA are lying in their correspondence could I take legal action against them for supplying false information ?

2nd reply from mbna.PDF

[pumpytums]

Hi Krisg,

I have a very similar situation with a different debt buyer.

As their letter states they say that your account was marked for sale so to speak at the end of the month. However the 100% proof is that DTL considered it belonged to them prior to the DN expiry. So the 100% solid fact remains that the account must have been sold before the DN was up.

MBN@ can squirm all they want but you have a letter from them dated the 19th saying it was sold. You also have a letter from DTL dated the 24th stating that they owned it. The MBN@ comms log back this up.

 

Sounds like they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Sold is sold. Obviously MBN@ had no intention whatsoever of honouring their DN which pretty well sums the whole company up.

 

Pumpytums

[krisg]

Today received another letter (attached) back from Hillesdens

The letter says additional documents were included for review so I could check the batch sale date

Bizarrely the only additionally document was a A4 piece of paper with a telephone number on it

Interesting as well, I checked my credit file and the DN was registered (By Hillesdens) on the 30th April well before the SAR sale date

Really strange goings on here

hillesdens reply3.PDF

[krisg]

Hello Folks

 

New letter from DLC with sale agreement enclosed

 

The sale agreement is dated 30th June 2009

 

According to this the debt was sold over one year ago. I was using the the card at this point and getting statements from MBNA.

 

Any legal experts out there who can confirm the validity of this. Could it be used as a good piece of evidence if it goes to court

Letter and sale agreement dlc.PDF

[vint1954]

Looks like they may have shot themselves. They need to give you notice on any Default and a chance to rectify it before they sell, unless the new owner offers you credit facilities under tha same terms.