Totally depesperate

[brovasista]

Please can anyone advise.

My brother had a mortgage with Cheltanham & Gloucester. He also put his flat as security for his business with Lloyds TSB. When his business collapsed last year Lloyds obtained a posession order from the county court. He moved out last Sept, in accordance with the court order and I enquired where to send the keys but Lloyds never told me. My brother assumed they would just attend with locksmiths so thought no more.

Here we are 8mths later and he's just learnt that Lloyds never took possession & don't intend to! C & G are now harrasing him coz they say they were never informed he'd left the property, that he should have informed them. That they didn't know anything about the Lloyds possession order. They want him to sign a form handing the property back to them but he was declard bankcrupt last Sept so can't sign it as any shortfall would create a new debt not included in his BR. He is tho happy to write a letter giving them peacable possession if they'd accept it.

Its all so comlicated. We thought the OR would deal with it as part of his BR but they don't seem interested. My brother has servere depression and I'm just trying to help him sort things out.

Any advise gratefully recieved. We're desperate.

[newstarter]

Good evening Brovasista,This is a mess but you have come to the right place.So,the mortgage is with C and G and the loan secured on the flat was with Lloyds.Im assuming your brother defaulted on the loan and Lloyds were granted a possession order on the flat.Some more info would help here,how much was the loan from Lloyds,can you provide some info relating to the loan,and when was the order granted,was it a full or suspended order,lots of questions i know but the more info the better.

[brovasista]

Hi. Yes it is a mess. The Lloyds loans were defaulted when his business went down, until then all was running correctly. Unfortunately brother wasn't well enough to attend the repo hearing but we sent a letter to the court accepting that he was not going to be able to pay the debt and accepted the repo. He asked for time to find retirement accomopdation & was given 56 days. He moved out on day55 coz he thought the he had to adhere to the court order. C & G say they knew nothing of the PO & he should have informed them. They're both Lloyds banking group !!!

At the momment we're asking the OR why they aren't dealing with it & will they. It was put as a secured creditor when he went BR.

Been in touch with several agencies (eg Shelter) & each one seems to give differant advise.

[newstarter]

This is intresting to say the least.You see a possession order is a claim on the property granted by the court to the lender as im sure you know.However it does not follow that the lender can just take the property from your brother even if the order has been granted.As the loans were issued as a second mortgage to fund your brothers business

it may be that the possession order was a suspended one issued to give your brother some time to get his finances back on track. If this was the case and the order was never extended to a full possession order then im not suprised C and G never knew about this.I think your brother was badly misenformed about all of this. For a start he had no need to leave the property even tough a possession order had been granted.Secondly the second charge ie Lloyds loans could have been handled much better than this however the fact the flat is technically still his may be your brothers saving grace here even though he is bankrupt.

[newstarter]

How much are the loans for,how much is the flat worth now on open market,a best guess will do.Has he any other debts.You say he was declared bankrupt last September, can you remember how much his debts added up to.While we get the full picture the first to do is,DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING YET,AS SURE AS NIGHT FOLLOWS DAY.

[brovasista]

Hi newstarter,

No, he knows not to sign any forms that may be sent to him, but he is thinking of sending C & G a letter just giving them peaceable possession, if the OR will not deal with it. What do you reckon. He doesn't want the flat & couldn't afford it anyway, coz all he has now is state pension + pension credit. Sadly he used every every penny he had to try and keep the business going. He lost absolutely everything.

The repo order was not a suspended one, it gave him 56 days, which is why he left. He recieved no advice in regard to the PO from the court or anywhere else. What are people expected to do.

As I've said before, he's spoken to many advice agencies including Shelter, and he's found they seem to give different advice. Needless to say he can't afford a solicitor.!

[brovasista]

Ps. Pity I didn't know about this site last Aug/Sept ! Things may have been different.

[ettubrute]

Hi brovasista

 

Sorry to hear about your brother's situation. It sounds like Lloyds decided not to enforce the order they obtained against him. The order would state something along the lines of " The Defendant give the CLaimant possession of....[the property] on or before [a date]" If he wants to, he could still return the keys to Lloyds and say, here you go, I am complying with the order, now sell the property.

 

C&G should have in there terms and conditions, and they should be able to let you know if you contact them directly, a provision to say if the property has been abandoned for a number of days that the property can be taken into possession that way. Voluntary possession is not an option with his bankruptcy you are right, if they hold off until his BR finishes, he could then sign the forms.

 

I would assume that if the OR has no interest in the property, then there is no equiy in the property. Your brother can still sell the property, a lot of mortgage lenders are now considering accepting less than the original loan amount, and that may be something to consider for him. Again he may have problems doing this before the BR is up as it will require an acknowledgement of debt.

 

If he is on pension credit and state pension, has he considered moving back into the property? If C&G have not started any action, the new pre-action protocol requires them to wait if you're brother is considering making an application to SMI (support for mortgage interest), MRS (mortgage rescue scheme) and others which aren't relevant in this case.

Your brother could continue to live in the home, and could receive state benefits to aid paying towards the mortgage. If he is lucky, it may be that the interest rate has dropped sufficiently so that the DWP end up paying more than the mortgage instalments, so aiding to reduce the arrears.

 

In relation to the Lloyds/C&G lack of communication, can't say I'm overly surprised. It is more often a professional courteousy to let another lender know of action, more recently it is a requirement of proceedings, but his T&C of mortgage will probably state he has to serve notice on them of any proceedings involving the property.

 

I hope this makes sense to you. If you have any queries let me know.

 

Ettubrute

[brovasista]

Hi Ettubrute,

My brother has moved into retirement housing & has no wish to live at the property again. He has servere depression following the loss of his business & couldn't cope with the bad memories there anyway.

We are waiting to hear from OR telling us whether they have an interest in property. If they don't we've decided best thing to do is give BS peaceable possession. Would you have any idea what the wording should be so there is no new debt created from any shortfall.

Thanks

[brovasista]

Hi. Here I am again. Following the June problems, after numerous phone calls with C&G my brother was told send in a letter saying he had no objection to them reposessing his flat and he would hear no more. No they did'nt want the keys as they would attend with a locksmith. The letter was duly sent.

Then last week he gets a letter from different solicitors saying they

were going to court (the same one that issued the outright posession order to Lloyds) to reposess his flat. !!! Enclosed were loads of different forms. Yet again he spoke to C&G and to the solicitors, both of whom can not understand what is going on or why things have been allowed to go on for so long.

My brother is at his wits end. He can't afford a solicitor to sort it. He's been in touch with shelter who were helpfull to an extent.

Can anyone suggest what action we should take or should we just stand back and let court process proceed.

The original court order gave the date by which the property must be vacated and so he complied and moved out. What else could he have done, Disobeyed the court order coz surely that would have been contempt.