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    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
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Nationwide threatening court action - Urgent please


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Hi, I hope someone can help...

 

Nationwide have recently contacted me through CCSCollect Debt Collectors saying that unless I pay the amount overdue on my credit card (nearly £5,000) or make an offer to pay acceptable instalments 'within the next seven days' (due around about now - I tried a thread in another forum but didn't get a reply) then they 'shall have no alternative but to take action through the County Court to recover the amount due together with court costs and legal fees'.

 

Now this account has been in dispute for a year and I've barely heard from them in this time. I think they have only just perked up now because a different debt collection agency is contacting me about my Nationwide bank account since they pulled my overdraft facility :( but that's another story!

 

The reason the account is in dispute is that I requested a CCA a year ago (May 2009). They sent me a signed 'agreement' and I posted about it here (in the Nationwide forum), and was told that it was unenforceable. I'll try to get a copy here as I would like someone to double check that before I go any further with this if possible.

 

I sent them the 'I do not acknowledge any debt' and had a Default Notice from them (which someone has suggested may be questionable too - though again I'd like to check this). Have also had various letters from debt collection agencies (though not for months) offering reduced one-off payments to close the matter - which I've ignored as I don't have that kind of money available and because they apparently still haven't come up with an enforceable agreement.

 

So... could someone help me know how to reply to this letter demanding payment or threatening court action? As part of me putting the account into dispute, one of the terms was that they should not pass on my debt. So does this mean they should not be threatening court action, demanding payment through CCSCollect?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer

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The credit agreement is unenforceable because it does not contain the required prescribed terms and the DN is unlawful because they state payment is required within 14 days of the date on the DN. That does not allow the required time for postage. They have demanded the full amount and doing so after issuing an unlawful DN is unlawful rescission.

 

The first thing you have to do is write to Nationwide's Complaints Department stating that you accept their repudiation of contract which occurred when they demanded the full balance of the alleged account after issuing an unlawful DN. That seals the rescission legally - you must do that. Then you can write to the DCA and tell them the agreement for the alleged account is unenforceable as it does not contain the required prescribed terms for an agreement and in addition it was unlawfully rescinded by Nationwide.

 

They will trash your credit rating but what happens now is up to you. You can ignore them or it puts you in a good position when you have the money to offer a minimal amount to settle and get rid of it.

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Hi Pinky69! Thank you so much for your reply.

 

That is very reassuring to hear that someone else agrees the credit agreement is unenforceable and the DN unlawful! I haven't been through this before - as you can probably tell ;)

 

OK, so...

 

1) should I not respond at all to CCSCollect (the debt collectors)?

 

2) Re the letter to Nationwide Complaints Dept: should I just say what you've said here and nothing else? Or is there a standard letter along these lines? Sorry - I have no idea what to say as it's all new to me!

 

3) Re the DCA - how do they relate to Nationwide? Again a newbie question sorry! And is this all I say too, or again is there a standard letter people advise to send?

 

Well, my credit rating is trashed anyhow due to some serious financial problems recently - I'm paying my other credit card debts by £1-a-month token payments at the moment, so there's not much hope for a good credit rating for a while...!

 

Thanks again, very much, for your reply

 

The credit agreement is unenforceable because it does not contain the required prescribed terms and the DN is unlawful because they state payment is required within 14 days of the date on the DN. That does not allow the required time for postage. They have demanded the full amount and doing so after issuing an unlawful DN is unlawful rescission.

 

The first thing you have to do is write to Nationwide's Complaints Department stating that you accept their repudiation of contract which occurred when they demanded the full balance of the alleged account after issuing an unlawful DN. That seals the rescission legally - you must do that. Then you can write to the DCA and tell them the agreement for the alleged account is unenforceable as it does not contain the required prescribed terms for an agreement and in addition it was unlawfully rescinded by Nationwide.

 

They will trash your credit rating but what happens now is up to you. You can ignore them or it puts you in a good position when you have the money to offer a minimal amount to settle and get rid of it.

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**BB waves to guests**

Hope your learning something:D

 

As pinky has said, you MUST accept the unlawful repudiation with Nationwide to make it legally binding, AKAIK there is no standard template so in your own words along the lines of what Pinky said:

 

Dear Nationwide Complaints Department,

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence the contents of which have been noted.

 

I accept your repudiation of contract which occurred when you sent an unlawful default notice dated dd/mm/yyyy followed by another letter dated dd/mm/yyyy asking me to pay the full balance on the account.

 

I look forward to your prompt reply.

 

Unless anyone else has another POV???

 

Boo;)

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Thank you very very much, Pinky69 and BB! That's great news about not needing to say much! I'm used to sending long letters, but on this subject I haven't a clue lol!

 

Much appreciated for setting my mind at rest and advising on what to do next. Will get right on it :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi Jacky 202,

 

Hope you don't mind my writing .. I have exactly the same problem with NW and a credit card, have disputed, they have not responded, they sent a dodge DN, then a letter of termination, now another DN which corrects all the errors in the first one.

 

I am going to follow Pinkys advice and send a letter accepting the unlawful termination, and wondered how you were getting on with this yourself? Or any tips you can give ?

 

Thanks for any help you can give ...

 

Robin x:)

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Sorry to hear you're having this trouble too! I've done as advised here, but not heard anything back yet from Nationwide complaints department or from the DCA. So still waiting to hear what happens next.

 

Best of luck!

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Hi there ... thanks for posting...

 

I'll send my letter off tomorrow ... and when/if I hear anything from them, I'll drop a quick line here, so that if its any help you can compare between what they've told you to what they have told me .... bet its completely different each time ... !!!

 

Thanks again Jacky .... and good luck to you too ...

 

Robin x:)

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