JBW bailiff - can he do this?

[stevelift]

Good morning all,

I have just had a visit from a jbw bailiff with regard to an outstanding parking fine in the name of my now dissolved limited company. (I emailed jbw after their last letter to tell them the company was dissolved). I told the bailiff this and he said that was fine but he could take goods belonging to me as I was liable personally. He told me my touring caravan would be removed in an hours time if I did not come up with the money.

 

I further informed him that i was made bankrupt on 16th April but he still said the caravan will go and proceded to take pictures of it and make phone calls.

 

He told me he will call me back in one hour to take payment or the caravan will go to their pound at Elephant & Castle, £205 will be added to the bill and it will be sold in 7 days if not paid.

 

I am sure he cant do this. Am I right?

 

Any help will be appreciated as I need to be sure of my facts when he calls back.

Steve.

[hallowitch]

I'm not sure if they can remove it but knowing JBW they will

 

I would suggest to get on the phone to the council who issued the parking ticket by phone for quickness and then with a follow up e-mail as they are fully responsible for all actions of JBW

 

make sure you ask to see the warrant and the bailiffs certificate when he comes

 

 

if you can record the conversation you have with the council and especially the bailiff

[impecunious]

Steve

 

Did the bailiff actually levy on the caravan or any other goods? Did he leave a notice of seizure?

 

As far as I understand, IF he has levied on any goods, he cannot take them immediately and must allow you time to come to an agreement (I'm thinking 5 days but might be wrong). It's only if you default on the arrangement that he can then take your goods.

 

If he hasn't physically levied on your caravan, I would suggest you MOVE it immediately to somewhere safe!

 

I'm sure one of my fellow CAGgers will be along soon and offer you more advice.

 

Good Luck!!

 

 

Impecunious!

[stevelift]

I dont think he has levied on it. All he has left is a copy of Enforcement Notice (which is a carbonless copy sheet written directly on) saying that I should pay immediately and with his name and mobile No.

 

Can he take mine and my wifes personal belongings for a debt in a limited company name? There are no company assets, and the car involved,which was registered in the name of the company and belonged to the company was sold 6 months ago.

 

Thanks for your replies,

Steve.

[hallowitch]

PART 75 - TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT - Ministry of Justice

 

 

have a read of this there may be something in it to help you

 

do you know when the parking ticket was issued as i believe they only last 12 months

[impecunious]

I'm sorry Steve - I personally don't know enough about limited company debt to give you any sound advice but I think the "limited" in the title would suggest that any liability was in fact limited. Someone else can help you on that one.

 

If the bailiff hasn't issued you with a walking possession order/notice of distress on your goods, then I assume that he hasn't actually made a levy. Your caravan and anything else you own is yours to do with as you please - so MOVE IT!! and your car!

 

Bailiffs have been known to levy on "valueless" garden stuff, so lock it away. You are under NO obligation to let the bailiff into your home - in fact, keep windows and doors locked. You don't even just to speak to him or phone him. Keep all communication in written form - easy to establish a paper trail.

 

I suggest you read through the posts on here - they're very useful.

 

You'll get lots of help.

 

 

Impecunious!

[Thegreenpimpernel]

My guess, based on logic and knowledge of similar issues is...

 

That if the issue were to end up in court (for example, JBW tow your caravan and you apply to recover it), then:

 

Given that (i think) the registered keeper is liable for parking tickets. That would probably be:

 

a) you (as the regular driver)

 

or

 

b) 'the company' if a shared pool car. If the company was the registered keeper, the company i.e.the secretary / sole director may liable themselves.

 

Chances are that you are / were the secretary / sole director?

 

Either way, that would leave you stuffed.

 

However, is there no opportunity for an out of time declaration ? (simply repeating what I've read off this site ).

 

I'm thinking that you might not have received the notice and subsequent communications if they went to the now defunct company, not yourself.

 

There is a lot of info on this on the forum. Particularly the posts of a contributor called 'tomtubby'.

 

My advice, hide the caravan, find a way of getting an out of time 'thingy' and get the reduced amount paid.

 

 

EDIT - Sorry, i missed the personal bankruptcy,so ignore the above, but just as a technicality.... Company Secretary or sole directors CAN get clobbered for certain Ltd company debts, a creditor can even 'resurrect' the dissolved company to enforce it. This happened to someone i know!!!!

Edited May 19, 2010 by Thegreenpimpernel

[sillygirl1]

I've alerted the site team to this thread, I think Tomtubby, our bailiff expert should be involved.

 

If the debt belonged to a limited company AND you are bankrupt then the bailiff has no claim whatsoever (as far as I am aware).

 

I would get in contact with your official reciever asap and ask their advice on this too.

[stevelift]

Thanks for all the replies & advice.

 

I have left a message for the official receiver to call me.

 

The bailiff has not been back in contact yet...... and the caravan is still here. (unable to move it as my wife is out with the car). Its only an old caravan but its about all we have left.

 

Thanks again,

Steve.

[Fair-Parking]

You are not personally liable for a limited company debt except by personal guarantee.

 

That's what 'limited liability' means.

[High Court Enforcer]

FP is right for a change.

 

If the debt was incured by a Limited company that is now dissolved the debt no longer exists.

[tomtubby]

Fair Parking an High Court Enforcer are both correct.

[Fair-Parking]

For a change HCEO?

 

When the bailiffs try to belittle you, you know you have them rattled.

 

Thanks for the compliment

[Thegreenpimpernel]

Where am i going wrong (besides not reading the post properly!!!)

 

How can a Ltd company have a parking ticket?

 

 

I thought it would be treated like a speeding fine, (i.e. name the driver or someone at the top takes the points) or is a decriminalized pcn just the same as any other unpaid invoice?

 

In which case it makes sense.

 

If that's the case, why don't these businesses in London who clock up thousands in pcn's because there is no legitimate parking for loading / unloading - just ignore them and re-incorporate every year or two?

[tomtubby]

Where am i going wrong (besides not reading the post properly!!!)

 

How can a Ltd company have a parking ticket?

 

 

I thought it would be treated like a speeding fine, (i.e. name the driver or someone at the top takes the points) or is a decriminalized pcn just the same as any other unpaid invoice?

 

In which case it makes sense.

 

If that's the case, why don't these businesses in London who clock up thousands in pcn's because there is no legitimate parking for loading / unloading - just ignore them and re-incorporate every year or two?

 

There are thousands of companies with their vehicles registered in the name of a Limited Company and many do in fact get removed.

 

In your case, the PCN was issued against the Limited Company but this company has now gone bust. Therefore there isn't a vehicle to remove and the bailiff cannot get any money from the COMPANY. He is therefore TRYING to scare you PERSONALLY into paying the debt by THREATENING you that he will remove your PERSONAL VEHICLE.

 

Please be assured, he cannot take your personal goods. That is the entire purpose of a Limited Company in that the debts are limited to that company ONLY. The ONLY time that you could in any way be responsible for paying a debt in the name of a Limited Company would be where you may have agreed to guarantee an overdraft etc for your bank.

[k1mmie]

Sorry to hijack - tomtubby, please contact me. (kim)

[letsmakeamark]

Sorry to hijack - tomtubby, please contact me. (kim)

 

Tomtubby doesnt have pm facilities.

[badfelafel]

I think that the person who was driving the vehicle, in terms of the Road Traffic Act, is responsible for contravening signs restricting parking - same was as the driver is responsible for speeding - ie the liability for it rests on the driver and cannot rest on the company that owned the vehicle or employed the driver etc. This means that it is irrelevant that the company ceases to exist. See s.36 of RTA88.

 

As it's not then a debt of the company, limited liability is irrelevant. It's the driver's own personal debt.

[Fair-Parking]

No - the registered keeper (the limited company) is deemed to be responsible. RTA88 is irrelevant to decriminalised parking. It was superseded by RTA 91 which introduced it under section 65

[badfelafel]

Will check that when I get to the office on Monday...

But having a quick look at the section you noted, it's not relevant to who the registered keeper is - it's purely about designated parking spaces in London.

 

Will get back to you...

Edited May 22, 2010 by badfelafel
additional info

[letsmakeamark]

Will check that when I get to the office on Monday...

But having a quick look at the section you noted, it's not relevant to who the registered keeper is - it's purely about designated parking spaces in London.

 

Will get back to you...

You need the attached forms

 

Do not pay afee as they are free.

AFTER2008.PDF