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    • Documents arrived today dated 27th March.  This is a cc taken out a long time ago (2008) and they don't seem to have been able to provide a copy of a CCA agreement, just reams of print outs of lines of texts from old bank statements, default notices etc.   
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    • pers i wouldn't.. all you need to know is in the posts of that thread....that being section 127(3) of the CCA refers. if under a CCA return, the 'creditor' claims its a recon, it must not contain any details like a sig, tickbox, or typed name (whether you signed physically or by online tickbox) 1. those are not necessary in a recon, so why inc them? (faked??) 2, it cant thus be a recon!!, it must be a copy of the 'original' from the original creditor, not from a debt buyers filing cabinet. they shouldn't not be 'mixing' some original docs from the OC with crap from their filing cabinet, claiming its ALL a recon! because some of it is faked. just remember there are far more docs like NOA and a DN that are as equally important to a court claim of 'this debt is enforceable'. never rely solely upon the dodgy agreement argument.
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Outright Possession Order - Repossesion Prevention Fund Information - Pregnant!!


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I have searched and searched and can't seem to find any information about my current situation :confused:

 

I'll try and keep it brief without missing out any vital information!!

 

My husband and i have been making reduced mortgage payments for just over the last year. As soon as it got to 12 months our lender - Bank of Scotland - started repossession proceedings and at the end of April were granted an outright possession order on our property. It was for 6 weeks which means our lender can apply for an eviction notice any time after 8th June.

 

With effect from June we will be in a position to go back to making full monthly mortgage payments and did explain this to BOS before they started the court action. This was back in March and at that point we offered them 50% for March, April and May payments. This was rejected and we were told 'the whole lot now + arrears (just over £6k at the time) or we will repossess your home'. They were made aware that we have two dependants and another on the way but this also fell on deaf ears.

 

I accept that we have been lucky to get away with reduced payments for as long as we did BUT, we have been in constant communication with BOS and although they never wrote to confirm any reduced payment arrangements they were quick enough to write telling us our agreement had ended. There is only one period of agreed reduced payments showing on our mortgage statement despite us having had a verbal agreement every 3 months for the last year :evil:

 

We asked BOS about the various government mortgage assistance schemes and were initially told they didn't exist. Then we were told it was too much paperwork and they would prefer a reduced payment.

 

Now we find ourselves facing eviction because our lender will no longer support our reduced payments (which we can now increase back to the full amount) and are not prepared to capitalise the arrears.

 

Our current arrears stand at just over £7k and we have £2.5k we can definately offer along with another possible £1k. We have our non-priority debts on DMPs with CCCS and if we were to stop paying them and make token offers to all our creditors we would then be able to offer something towards our arrears. It does worry me to stop paying non-priority debts but i would prefer to do that and have defaults/CCJs against me than to lose my house.

 

We have been talking to our council housing department and they are looking into the Local Authority Repossession Prevention Fund but it appears to be something new to them. Every time we provide one bit of information they come back asking for something else. I don't know if this is a delaying tactic but i am just seeing days roll into weeks and feel in total limbo. My baby is due in 11 weeks and i really don't want to find myself, husband and children out on the street any time soon.

 

We do not believe the pre-action protocols were correctly followed by BOS but at this stage just need to get an agreement with them rather than worry about any kind of complaint. We spoke to the CAB today who were totally useless. But they did point out that if we were to appeal against the decision made by the judge and lose (which no doubt we would as i feel pretty sure BOS will somehow prove they have followed the protocols) we would be liable for further costs. As it is 21 days tomorrow (i believe the deadline to file an N244 appeal) it is too late to go down that route without being 110% sure we would win.

 

So, after a lot of waffle, my question is how do we go about completing the N244 to request a variation on the possession order? If we could get it made into a suspended possession order then provided we can make the payments and clear the arrears i assume we could keep the house.

 

Our mortgage is already on interest only and we have taken a payment holiday! I'm not sure if i've missed anything else vital but am happy to answer any questions if someone can give me some advice!

 

All help will be gratefully received :D

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Hi Littlemonstermum,

 

I am sorry you find yourself in this situation.

 

I have one question. Did you attend the court hearing when the possession order was made? and did you offer any defence at all?

 

Someone will be along to help you with filling in the N244 form, you will need to do this if you can prove you are able to pay the full amount plus a little extra on top going forward.

 

Good luck

 

Vicks.

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Hi there, sorry to hear you are in this position. However, lets see what can be done. Firstly, did you attend the court hearing for possession? if so, what did you use in your defence?

 

We can certainly help with the N244 but you need proof that you are able to make payments towards the arrears going forward. How have your circumstances changed?

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Hi Ell-enn and Vicks,

 

Thanks for your replies.

 

Yes we did put in a defence and yes we did attend the hearing. We were wrongly advised by our local council that this was the start of a LONG process and not to worry at this stage as it was the first of at least 4 hearings... We were expecting a suspended repossession order but the judge went for a straight repossession as our numbers didn't quite add up (more bad advice but that's another story) and it looked like we couldn't come up with ongoing payments.

 

We are now in the position where we have a very kind family member who has given us £2.5k towards the arrrears and they may be able to find another £1k before the possession date of 8th June.

 

We will also be able to pay the mortgage in full for May although have only paid the 1/3 payment that we have been making for the last few months. We were reluctant to change the standing order if the bank do end up taking the house off us anyway. By revising our expenditure forms and paying less into our DMP we will definately be ok to pay the full mortgage and possibly £100 towards the remaining arrears if we can't get the repossession prevention fund loan from the council. My husband also now has a better paid job and can get a letter from his employer that confirms this. By June he will also have two wageslips.

 

Our defence mentioned how we don't feel the pre-action protocols have been followed fully and that we do not believe the lender has supported us despite regular contact from us. However, they did let us make reduced payments for a year which from what i've read is a lot longer than many other lenders. While we do want to make a complaint to Bank of Scotland with regards to their treatment of us, at the moment all we want to do is keep our home.

 

Hope this extra info helps and thanks for responding :)

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It will certainly help your case if you can make a lump sum payment towards the arrears. It might be best to wait until you have made this payment before making an N244 application, as you will be able to affix proof of payment. Also, BoS may not apply for an eviction order after receiving a lump sum payment and you might be able to negotiate the new monthly payment proposal with them without going to court.

 

When would you be able to make the lump sum payment?

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Thanks for this. We have the cheque waiting to be cashed so should be able to get the money by early next week - allowing time for it to clear.

 

The speed that all of this has happened has made us very reluctant to make any additional payments in case they do still end up taking the house from us. On a separate note my husband is seriously thinking of declaring himself bankrupt and we have to weigh up if he does this will we end up losing the house anyway. We will struggle with our non-priority debts going forward but if we can at least pay the mortgage then we hope to be ok. The house is probably now in negative equity - or very close to it - so there would be little point in the OR insisting on it being sold in the event of my husband going BR as it would not release any capital for other creditors. I do know that i can buy the beneficial interest which would help in the future when (she says hopefully!) house prices rise again. Anyway, that is another issue although it does probably impact on how we deal with this one.

 

Since the court hearing we haven't made any contact with our lender or their solicitor and have not heard anything from either of them. We would certainly be happy to pay a lump sum towards the arrears but only on the condition of no eviction action being taken. We would also welcome not having to go back to court.

 

I apologise for appearing ignorant here but do you suggest we call BoS and put a proposal to them and see what they say. Must admit i had thought with the case having gone this far we needed to do everything now via the courts.

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You should make your offer of payment in writing and send by recorded (or special delivery). If you need help with the layout of the letter, please let me know and I'll happily draft it for you.

 

You can still negotiate with lender even after court action, and they must consider your offer. If they refuse then you can apply to the court on N244 and prove that you have offered a payment proposal (keep a copy of anything you write to them and get the printed signature receipt from the royalmail welbsite).

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Ok we will do that then. If you could draft a simple letter for me that would be great.

 

We have got someone 'helping' us but i use this term very loosly as so far the advice he has given us has not been good. Not having been in this situation before (and using him because he helped a friend through BR (he is now discharged and has kept his house and his assets) so we wrongly assumed he was good!) we trusted what he said and went along with his advice. He wrote to BoS on our behalf last week (we have given them written permission to deal with him) but hasn't had any reply yet. I don't think it will hurt if we write to them as well with the same info - hopefully better written - and force a response from them. I am pretty sure we can offer them half of the arrears (certainly £2.5k), ongoing full payment + something towards the remaining arrears to be paid off over a reasonable time.

 

If they refuse then we obviously go down the N244 route. At least if something we have been proactive from our side then if/when they do go for the eviction we can prove that we have made a sensible offer and they rejected it.

 

Wish i'd actually posted on this forum sooner!

 

I have to go to sleep now - am typing in bed and my husband gets ratty as the keyboard seems to be really noisy at night-time :eek:

 

Thanks for your help and advice so far!

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Hello littlemonstermum im sorry to read of your current situation,however all is not lost by any means.So,lets get this straight,for the past 12 months you have had a verbal agreement to underpay your monthly payment. (for future reference try and get any agreement with any creditor in writing) it always helps if a situation gets to the court hearing stage. B.O.S decide to end this verbal agreement and in April are granted a full possession order for 6 weeks which as you say gives them the legal right to issue an eviction order on or after June 8th.The total arrears outstanding are 7000 ,you can resume full payments again from June and you have some funds to pay off 50% of the arrears.

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You also say your husband has secured employment with an increase in pay.After this lump sum has been paid your arrears will stand at roughly £3.500,you will be able to make the normal monthly payment plus some towards the arrears.Right if this is all correct you may feel this is a bad situation but believe me there are far worse,if you go about this in the right way i think you will be ok.

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First and foremost forget bankrupcy ,you really have no need to go down that route.However you need to prepare for the worst ie an eviction order dropping through your door,prepare for the worst and then you wont get any nasty shocks later.The second thing you need to do is put your secondry unsecured debts to one side,dont worry about them for now,those creditors can,t take your home off you,the worst they could do is apply for a charge on your home.Ell en is right when she says you should pay off the lump sum before you take action,this will have the effect of reducing your arrears total,show commitment to clearing your arrears,and in case of any forthcoming proccedings 3500 arrears looks much better on paper before a judge than 7000.

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While you are doing this keep in contact with B.O.S dont give them an excuse to argue that you are not talking to them and that they cannot get in contact with you,make a note of phone calls made and recieved and keep all letters and corespondence with your lender. As Ell en says if they refuse to play ball you then have to go down the N244 route to suspend any possible eviction order,however with 50% of your arrears cleared and the fact that you can prove that your mortgage payments can be made on time with something each month of the arrears,any action in my view would be suspended.As Ell en says they must consider any reasonable offer in line with the new mortgage protocol,B.O.S will know this so it may not get at far as the court stage.

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One final thing ,if it does get that far remember your first hearing,learn from that.You must get all your facts and figures right.Courts,or moreover judges dont like discrepancies,they have little patience when things just dont add up.If you do all of the above and let Ellen complete your paperwork for you im sure you will be ok.Good luck littlemonstermum,although i think somehow you wont need it.

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Hi Newstarter,

 

Thanks for all your advice.

 

We have had a letter back from BOS today (sent to our advisor) which basically says we have done nothing to help ourselves etc etc.

 

The lines of communication are clearly back open which is good news.

 

Of course you are correct we should have got everything in writing but the benefit of hindsight is a great thing!!

 

For now we will go back to communicating with BOS and see what happens. We do at least know they have to apply for an eviction order so if in the worst case scenario a notice does come through the door we can submit the N244 form at that stage.

 

I will await a letter format from Ell en and in the meantime we will call BOS to see how they respond verbally. Obviously this time we will take the name of the person we speak to and follow anything up in writing.

 

I assume at this time no-one knows anything about the local authority repossesion prevention fund? This is an interest free loan that can be used for mortgage arrears. This is all i know about it though! If we could borrow the remaining £3.5k from the council and pay it back over say 5 years then it would cost us less than putting the arrears onto the mortgage as it is interest free. What we can't find out is the term this loan would be repayable over. The council are very reluctant to give us any information and the lady we have been dealing with is on holiday!!

 

I do know that there are people in far worse situations out there but it is very hard when you are the one trying to deal with something! I have looked at this forum many times but only found my way into the repossessions page earlier this week! Thank you for helping me to see it is not all lost and to try and think more positively.

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Just realised i forgot to add, there have been charges while in arrears of £35 a month and £85 for one of BOS 'debt advisors' to visit us. The charges have not been added to the arrears amount that they have been claiming from us through the court.

 

I am going to request an up to date statement to double check this but from my sums and the amount of arrears i don't think the charges have been lumped into the arrears and i don't think they are excessive compared to some i have seen.

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Hi there, affixed is a draft letter. You need to fill in the info where there are xxx's and brackets etc.

 

Also affixed is the budget sheet we use (if you do it on the PC it adds up as you go along). When filling it in remember that the amount you are offering to pay towards the arrears each month, is the amount left over after everything else has been accounted for.

 

Keep a copy of the letter and budget sheet together with the receipt for recorded/special delivery. You may need to use these as evidence you have tried to negotiate, if you have to put in an N244.

Littlemonstersmum letter.doc

Budget Sheet.xls

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Hi littlemonstermum glad to see your more upbeat about all of this.I wouldnt worry too much.Now,watch those debt councillors that the banks send out,some of them do a pre eviction report and get a valuation on your property both volountry and forced sale.They take into account who lives there,the condition of the place inside and out,any pets etc all on the sly without you knowing.I wouldnt trust one again not in the least.

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Just one last thing,i see Ell enn has sent you the draft letter and income and expenditure sheet.Remember to get your figures right and dont overstretch yourself to please B.O.S.Keep a little cash back each month for those emergencies.I would have a look at those charges if i were you.The F.S.A ruled in Jan of this year that arrears charges that just serve to burden the borrower when in arrears should not be added to customers accounts.The F.O.S are actively encouraging people to reclaim these charges.

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Thanks for the letter Ell-en. We have cashed the cheque today so should be in a position to make a payment to BOS early next week.

 

Newstarter, i have subsequently found out these 'debt advisors' might be up to sneaky tricks. Was a bit late when i found that out. The guy wasn't much use and didn't really ask too many questions so i think he probably was above board but you never know. He didn't go round the house at all so couldn't make a judgement on anything but the living room where we sat. That said, they could quite easily make it up if they were there for valuation purposes.

 

The letter from BOS today does say to call them on a specific number to offer a repayment proposal so we will do that tomorrow and then follow it up in writing.

 

We are also going to not worry about the unsecured debts for the time being. Like you say the worst they can do is get a CCJ followed by a charging order. As the property is (just) in negative equity this wouldn't be much good to them anyway. We each have a large amount of unsecured credit but it is spread over many creditors so i don't see it would be worth any of their while to bother with a charging order. Right now that is the least of our worries... Will get the house stuff sorted first and then see where we are.

 

Thank you so much for your support. It is good to know there are people out there who can help. :D

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Re the charges, yes we will look into this as even tho £35 a month doesn't seem excessive over the year we have been making reduced payments it has added up!

 

We are making a complaint about the way the whole thing has been handled so will definately bring the charges up as well.

 

Just want to get it sorted so we know we can stay first :)

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You mentioned some sort of council fund that you had considered. Have you looked into the Mortgage Recscue Scheme? As long as you are not too hung up about owning the house this would enable you to sell the property to a local housing association who would then rent it back to you at social housing rent. I am going through this at the moment and it also would benefit the bank as they would get more of their money back as the house would not be sold as a repossession but effectively to a cah buyer at market price.

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Hi Pubman1!

 

We really like where we live and my husband is quite keen to keep the house as 'ours'. Our debt problems have been going on for a while but we are finally climbing out of the black hole and although it will still be a few years before we can really say we are comfortable at this stage the Mortgage Rescue scheme isn't for us.

 

The government has also provided what they call the Repossession Prevention Fund loan which is administered by local councils/authorities. It is to a maximum of £5000 and is interest free. This however is the most i can find out about it. The council are prepared to look into this for us but they want us to jump through soooo many hoops i don't think it is worth the effort.

 

I have gone through as many of our debts as i can find information on this morning - most of them are with debt collection agencies now and trying to work out who is who is driving me crazy. Without this information in full and being accurate the council won't even consider our application. Our debts are quite large as well (about £100k unsecured between myself and husband) due to a failing business and personal guarantees (never again!!) and other bits where we were using credit to live as we weren't being paid. As the debt is all unsecured i have decided that for now i am not going to pay anything and then as i get letters in from the people we owe money to reply back with an income and expenditure form and a nominal offer. I think i can probably work out about half of the people who are chasing and am going to start writing to them now. But, we get letters from so many different companies and when you look more closely you find it is actually two people chasing the same debt. It is hard work to keep on top of!

 

Our biggest priority is keeping the house and if we have to go down the Mortgage Rescue Scheme then we certainly will look into it. We know it is an option if we need it. The money for this and the repossession fund loan is in the same pot apparently. So for us it would be cheaper for our council to offer us the loan i think!

 

Do you know if you will have the option to buy back your house at a later date if your circumstances change? Is it looking like your rent payment will be a lot cheaper than your mortgage? And finally, do you have a lot of other personal debt? Lots of questions but answers worth having if it is something we need to look into more closely!

 

One other thing ;) - our house is in negative equity so if the council were to buy at market rate there would be a shortfall on the mortgage payment of about £20k. Do the council and mortgage lender negotiate to ensure this doesn't come back as a debt to you?

 

Enough questions i think!!

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Hi littlemonstermum,Pubman 1 does raise some valid points however with your mortgage arrears as low as it is,i wouldnt advise going down the mortgage rescue scheme route,if the house is yours try and keep it that way,at least you have emerged from a failed business with your home intact.However their is something you might want to take a closer look at.(sorry about the spelling im in a rush) As long as you dont aknowledge them to a creditor unsecured debts over 6 years old are statute barred,this means that the debt is still there but the creditor or creditors cannot persue you through the courts.This information you will find in the statute of limitations act 1980.You must however have not aknowledged the debt or made any payment towards it.

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However as already stated above,one thing at a time,Mortgage first and either comming to an agreement with B.O.S or failing that ,the n244 route.The others can wait.Try not to make things complicated by trying to deal with two many things at once usually there isnt enough money to go round to do that,and by the way the road you are travelling down now is one we have been down,been there done it worn the t shirt,thats why i feel compelled to help others as i know just how worrying it can be.We came out of it ok so we did something right lol.

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