scottish power - "buchananclark + wells" - sons debt

[h8_Halifax]

please HELP

 

some time ago i received a letter from scottish power saying that i owed them for money. i pointed out that the debt was not mine but my sons. i added that my son had the same name as me and that he had not lived with me for almost ten years. i told them to contact my son via his mother and pointed out that she owned the property where the debt was incurred, i.e. where they had supplied the power to.

to be as helpfull as possible, i also mentioned that my son had definately not lived at the address of the debt during the entire period they were claiming for ( 9/5/2005 - 15/9/2009 ); that he had probably moved out about 9 or 10 months before the end of that period ( i.e. christmas 2008 ) and that he can't possibly have lived there 5 months before ( in april/may 2009 ) as his mother and step-father were having the entire house redecorated at that time, my other son was helping them, and the property was definately unoccupied at that time.

now i've had a letter from "buchananclark + wells" saying that 35% has already been added to the debt; that they are going to "instruct a debt investigation officer" to visit me; that they are going to add a further 30% to the debt; that they are also going to commence legal proceedings ... unless i pay, well, they actally say "amicable settlement".

 

what really anoys me is that they say "our client has informed us that they are unaware of any legitimate reason for non-payment" - a TOTAL lie since i've fully explained why they should not be writing to me in my last letter ( which i can't find ).

Edited May 16, 2010 by h8_Halifax
killing unwelcome smilies

[harrassed senior]

OK, 2 points - everything in writing and watch out that they do not try and sneak in a Summons using the 'old address'.

 

Then send the following:

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collection, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[Bazooka Boo]

Personally I would not entertain any letter tennis with them.

File away and ignore their childish threats.

 

Lodge a formal complaint about them with the OFT/TS via Consumer Direct send them 'copies' of their petty letters, which incorrectly state that they have added charges to the account, as they are unable to do so.

 

If you have already informed them of their mistake, then let them carry on digging their own grave, if they persist in harassing you over a debt which is not yours, go to your Local Police station and file a Harassment complaint, as this is a criminal offence, don't let them fob you off, speak to the duty inspector if needs be.

 

The simple fact that you wrote to them and helpfully explained their mistake, is like a red rag to a bull for uneducated companies like these.

 

So I would recommend not contacting them again, there is nothing they can do,the debt is not yours, you have told them this and they have ignored your advice, surprise surprise!

 

If they place adverse data on your credit file, then take them to court and sue them for damages, they are getting increasingly desperate as the general public are learning their rights and fighting back.

 

Boo;)

[ScottishPower Company Rep]

Hi h8 Halifax

 

I am sorry to hear about your situation and for the inconvenience caused. Without actually having the account information to hand, I would conclude that your son's name was added onto the ScottishPower account for the property in question and that the tracing tools used by the debt collectors have linked with your address.

 

It is a common situation and I have come across this on a number of occasions. If a property is not being occupied and the utility company are not notified of this then they will continue to send out gas/electricity statements. These statements may be based on estimated meter readings (due to being unable to access the property) and as a result of this an outstanding balance accumulates on the account. If no payments are made to the account or no payment plan is in place (Direct Debit / Standing Order) then the outstanding balance can be passed to debt collectors if it is left long enough.

 

If on the other hand the utility company are contacted prior to the property being unoccupied / renovated, a suitable payment arrangement can be updated on the account (no standing charge tariff etc) so that way if no gas/elec is used then no charges will be applied to the account. Also, if the property is not being occupied (yet still owned) then a forwarding address can be added to the account for any correspondence to be issued to.

 

To ensure that you are not inconvenienced further, I would suggest arranging for your son to speak with ScottishPower and inform them of the situation. The name on the account should be updated accordingly and your details removed.

 

Please let me know if you have any further issues regarding this matter.

 

Kind Regards

 

Colin @ ScottishPower

[Pinky69]

If it is a situation you have seen before then it is a situation that shouldn't exist and Scottish Power are right out of order passing debts to debt collection agencies to give them carte blanche to trace the wrong person. Their system is at fault and why should the poster get his son to call Scottish Power? - the bill is nothing to do with the poster. People have committed suicide after being hounded for debts that have nothing to do with them. If it were me I would let them take me to court then sue them for damages.

[Bazooka Boo]

Couldn't agree more Pinky, the onus is on the Creditor not the litiagnt to prove that they are chasing the correct person.

If as the OP has already done, and explained to BCW that they are barking up the wrong tree, and then continue to harass the wrong person, it is Scottish Power who will carry the can, after all, it is they who have passed on the incorrect details and it is they who have foolishly instructed a DCA.

 

Certainly won't make good reading in the red tops, and I wouldn't let it rest until a letter of apology landed on my doormat.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

SP are also very fond of sending letters (if your payment is late by a week or so; what if you are on holiday, say? and CANNOT not WILL not pay that week? or you were taken into hospital without warning, can happen to anyone) threatening a debt collector visit and stating that you pay the fee for the pleasure. Not sure how that would work under OFT guidelines, though, passing the cost of the collection onto the ... well, not 'debtor' as such because you aren't eg you are not unable to pay just may have been delayed in paying that week.

[ScottishPower Company Rep]

Hi All

 

Pinky - I understand what you are saying. If the OP has advised the debt collectors about the situation then they should focus their attention elsewhere. My suggestion to speak to his son regarding the matter was offered so that the issue at hand (outstanding balance for a property his son was working on) could be rectified as quickly as possible. Failing to get the necessary details updated could result in a default marker being registered against the OP's son if left long enough and I am sure the OP and his son do not want this to happen.

 

Debt action is taken when a bill is not paid. We have a huge customer base and as such have an automated billing system that will send a reminder letter if a bill is not paid within 14 days. Like Cartaphilus states, you may be on holiday or be rushed into hospital resulting in you being unable to make payment. Debt visits to an address do not happen after 14 days. Debt visits are much further down the line and will only happen after we have exhausted all other options including letters and telephone calls.

 

This situation is something that can be resolved very quickly if we are provided with the appropriate information. Allowing the matter to escalate to court seems a little excessive when a telephone call from the person in question will help rectify the situation.

 

Please let me know if you have any questions.

 

Kind Regards

 

Colin @ ScottishPower

[Pinky69]

There is no excuse for this. The poster informed Scottish Power that it was not his bill but his son's and what did they do? Ignored his letter and passed it in to a debt collection agency - that is disgraceful. It is not the DCA that should have focussed attention elsewhere - it is Scottish Power. The customer service at the utility companies is notoriously bad. I definitely would go to court and make Scottish Power pay for harassing me for a bill that wasn't mine. Automation is no excuse for a damaging lack of proper management - people can interrupt a system to resolve a problem. As for default markers, that can easily be removed on the grounds that the person who should have been billed never received the bill.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Debt visits to an address do not happen after 14 days. Debt visits are much further down the line and will only happen after we have exhausted all other options including letters and

I'd agree, except it's the frightening tone of the letters, how they are worded. Also, it's always been my understanding that passing debt collection fees to anyone be they a late payer or debtor (I also think that it is jumping the gun somewhat if a debt is overdue by a few days, I'd understand it if it were months had gone by) as stated in the letters to be against the guidelines. It is not the person who owes the money for example who has a contract with whichever DCA it ends up with as a doorstep visit but Scottish Power who does. Besides which it's also increasing a debt that may not be a debt to begin with but simply a late payment. If someone has genuinely gone into hospital and have no family for example to do it for them, and purely by being hospitalized are thus unlikely to be in any shape to be phoning anyone, that would be the last thing on their minds I'd think and couldn't access their home mail.

 

I am sure you will agree that everyone is a human being, and such letters can throw someone who doesn't know the ins and outs of the DCA world into a very panicked state. It's very heavy handed for what it is. To me.

 

Edit - I know people who have had the letters within a few days of the payment date going by, saying a fee would be added and a debt collector would be visiting if payment wasn't made. There are a few versions of the letter.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[h8_Halifax]

as i couldn't find the letter i had sent to scottish power, at that time, i decided that i should probably send the letter that harrassed senior suggested. sorry boo, i would probably have taken your advice if i could have put my hand on "that" letter.

 

the day after i'd taken your advice i received a letter from "past due" for the same debt. so i sent them the same letter.

 

really interesting point!

the letters from the two dca's don't agree on the amount owed.

bcw say, principal £640.17 plus 35% admin £224.06 = £864.23

pastdue say, £696.83 including the 35% admin charge.

the morons can't even agree on how much the debt is!

do they work on a "think of a number" basis?

i do find it strange that they can use the word "principal" without all their computer going into melt-down and their fingers dropping off.

 

then i thought, if i can't find the letter i'd sent to scottish power, maybe i should send them the same letter. there was a small problem, i couldn't find their address. so i attached it as a pdf to an email addressed to their Chief Executive, Nick Horler, asking for a personal appology.

 

Colin @ ScottishPower - 1st post

thank you. i've not been patronised that so much for a long time. clearly i'm really stupid and haven't a clue how you bill fuel, etc.

a small point, why don't you actually reply to the specific points i raised?

by all means, reply in general way if you prefer.

let me start you off.

why sell the debt without telling them all the information i had given to you?

what right have you to sell the debt twice?

why should i tell my son anything?

why should i do anything you ask?

you ignored me when i tried to be helpful, now you can kiss my back-side!

(that last one is not actually a question)

 

Colin @ ScottishPower - 2nd post

...(outstanding balance for a property his son was working on)

that's not what i said.

my other son was painting the property for his mother who, with his step-father, owns the property

 

i must say, you are really good at this patronising stuff!

as for a "default marker", great. bring it on!

are you going to put this on his mother address?

or on the property in question? (which is owned by his mother)

either way, ask me if i'm bothered.

in fact, why not do both! go for it!

 

finally, and this could have been resolved even quicker if you have taken the trouble to read the very detailed and helpful letter i sent you

 

as for the rest of you who posted, many, many thanks.

you're helpful, supportive

... it's just like having a group of really clever best friends!

one more word from anyone about this debt, or if i don't get a letter from Nick Horler, and i'll be back asking how to make as big a "poo" storm as possible.

Edited May 22, 2010 by h8_Halifax
speeellin misstook

[MARTIN3030]

FAO Colin at Scottish power-a request was made for you to contact Admin-so far it doesnt look as tho there has been any reply.

 

With all due respect,asking members to provide personal information is not something we encourage,nor are users here comfortable to do.

 

We would expect any results whether positive or negative following your interventions,to be progressed and reported in the forums.

 

Can you please contact Admin and advise of your remit to act for SP and also your expectations,together with an undertaking to uphold site rules.

 

Thanks for your co-operation and understanding.

[dx100uk]

DCA's can't add admin charges unless:

they have BROUGHT the debt,

scottish power has advised you in writing of this

the dca have sent a notice of assignment

the original contract specifically states the charges levels.

 

ruddy fleecers

 

i'd ignore them totally, sounds like your on a phishing list.

 

dx

[h8_Halifax]

DCA's can't add admin charges unless:

they have BROUGHT the debt,

scottish power has advised you in writing of this

the dca have sent a notice of assignment

the original contract specifically states the charges levels.

 

sorry for being thick but are you saying that the original person you owe the debt to MUST inform you themselves if they sell it on?

i have only ever heard of the pirates, sorry, dca advising the debtor.

[Pinky69]

The creditor must inform you that they have sold the debt and what's more they are supposed to to it by recorded delivery. See Section 196(4) of the Law of Property Act 1925.

[h8_Halifax]

The creditor must inform you that they have sold the debt and what's more they are supposed to to it by recorded delivery. See Section 196(4) of the Law of Property Act 1925.

wow!

i have never seen or heard of this happening.

do the powers that be ever do anything about these breaches in the law?

... clearly not enough!

[babybear39]

Ooh! An almost perfect problem to try out Furguson V British Gas Trading

[dx100uk]

sorry for being thick but are you saying that the original person you owe the debt to MUST inform you themselves if they sell it on?

i have only ever heard of the pirates, sorry, dca advising the debtor.

 

this how phishing lists work

 

XX DCA offers to buy debts in bulk that are 'probably never going to see any income & thus have been 'written-off' by the OC's for tax purposes'

 

then they start writing crap to those on the list.

 

dx

[ScottishPower Company Rep]

Hi H8 Halifax

 

Please do not think that I was being patronising in any way. I certainly did not mean to come across that way at all. My role on this forum is to try and help out any customer's of ScottishPower who are having problems or are looking for answers to questions they have.

 

Can I just make it clear for the record - I 100% agree with what you are saying and I am not defending the actions taken by the debt collectors or ScottishPower. If you have contacted us and made it clear that this is not your problem then you have done your bit. We also owe you an apology for any inconvenience caused. If this has not been offered by us already then I would like to take this opportunity to apologise on behalf of the company.

 

I will try to answer your points as best I can:

 

1. The debt collectors should be acting on the information they have been provided by ScottishPower which I would hope included the information you provided also. If ScottishPower have failed to pass on this information then this is our error.

2. The debt may be returned to ScottishPower from one debt collector if they have been unsuccessful and assigned to another debt collector. Without seeing the account, I am unsure why the original debt figure is different. I can't imagine that the account would be amended at this stage and therefore should really be the same amount.

3. You do not need to tell your son anythink, I agree. This was suggested to help resolve the matter quickly. His name must be on our billing system in error and will need to be removed and replaced with the correct owner of the property.

4. You do not need to do anything I ask. I am only offering help and advise. Whether you take the advise and act upon it is entirely up to you. Remember I am here to help, I have worked in Customer Services for a long time and I appreciate that we do not always get it right. When customer's highlight these errors to us this helps us identify where we have gone wrong and make sure that proceedures are put in place to ensure these errors do not happen again.

5. I can't help you with this one, but I understand why you feel this way.

 

I am sure that your letter will be responded to and that you will be provided with all the information you require as well as an apology.

 

Please let me know if you have any outstanding issues when you receive your reply.

 

I am here to help out as best I can.

 

Kind Regards

 

Colin @ ScottishPower

[babybear39]

Colin, are you familiar with harassment laws? Please read post #17 and grace us with your coments

[ScottishPower Company Rep]

Hi babybear39

 

I am not legally trained, however I do understand the arguments for and against this kind of action. I have attached an extract from information posted on the web which relates to this matter:

 

In Majrowski v Guys and St Thomas' NHS Trust [2006], Lord Nicholls stated:

"Courts will have in mind that irritations, annoyances, even a measure of upset, arise at times in everybody's day to day dealings with other people. Courts are well able to recognise the boundary between conduct which is unattractive, even unreasonable, and conduct which is oppressive and unacceptable. To cross the boundary from the regrettable to the unacceptable the gravity of conduct must be of an order which would sustain criminal liability under section 2."

 

I suppose it is for the courts to decide whether the harrassment is great enough to warrant a conviction.

 

Kind Regards

 

Colin @ ScottishPower

[babybear39]

Ferguson V British Gas Trading is a complex case, granted, but the lesson basically is 'don't persue people when you've already been supplied with more than enough evidence to confirm they are not the account holder'

[ScottishPower Company Rep]

Agreed

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Just a quick question: has SP got rid of it's Escalations Team? Used to have a freephone number, separate from the numbers issued on bills. Just wondered.

[ScottishPower Company Rep]

Hi Cartaphilus

 

We still have our Escalations Team. I am not aware of ever having a freephone number for escalations. The telephony system for the escalations team has changed recently as the department now has a hunt number. If you have a complaint which is escalated to level 3 of our complaints procedure, the agent dealing with your complaint will provide you with our department number and their extension number.

 

If you have any further queries please do not hesitate to ask.

 

Kind Regards

 

Colin @ ScottishPower