CCJ - can I change my response?

[AngryExBanker]

Hi all

 

Sincere apologies if this has already been covered, but I couldn't find the answer despite several hours' searching! Maybe I'm just a bit dumb, which might explain the following.....

 

I got correspondence from the ever-lovely Howard Cohen & Co (a notice of assignment) on 15th April, and when I phoned up to find out what I was supposed to do, was told simply to return the form saying I didn't dispute the debt, that they would accept payment of GBP5 per month (due to long-term unemployment), and actually took a 5 pound payment over the phone via my debit card.

 

I definitely came away with the impression that an agreement had been reached and that no CCJ would be issued against me, however I now find that this is not the case. I have now finally found a job and accepted verbally, but as it's with a Building Society (never working for a bank again for many, many reasons of which we're all painfully aware!) and they require to run a credit check I'm worried they'll turn round and say no due to the presence of a CCJ (the only one, as far as I'm aware, and for less than 450 pounds).

 

As I attempted many, many times, both in writing and by phone, to deal with GE finance, Santander Cards and CL finance, I'm considering pursuing complaints with all and potentially a civil case on the grounds of defamation (I made countless offers of token payments which were simply ignored and have the paper trail to prove it). However I was just wondering if there's an easier way based on the fact that I returned the form to the court not fully understanding the implications of doing so? Certainly at no point did any letter say "we're about to issue a CCJ", and looking at the letters I've received it also appeared to go straight to a CCJ without any warning.

 

Anybody got any ideas, I'm really worried about this as my already highly precarious position would collapse into complete chaos if this job gets withdrawn. Not to be too melodramatic I would lose my home (rented, behind on rent, no money for a deposit on a new place!).

 

Many, many thanks in advance........

[debbbbsy]

Hi,

I definitely came away with the impression that an agreement had been reached and that no CCJ would be issued against me,

 

Unfortunately, this is not uncommon. They accept payment, tell the debtor to simply confirm reciept of court docs, but say they won't instigate action. They get judgement undefended. Basically they scr*w you. You have a choice, either pay the CCJ in full, it will be removed from your credit file. Or challenge the CCJ on the grounds that it was not enforceable & apply to have it set a side.

If you wish to challenge it. Can you give some more detail.

Was it a storecard or Credit card ?

 

The first documents you recieved from the courts, would have detailed the Particulars of Claim . Can you post this, or give a description.

 

Debs

[AngryExBanker]

Thanks for the response Debs. I've actually just had a call from the BS to say it might be an issue and they'll let me know whether or not I still have a job later today! Can't describe quite how angry I feel at the moment.

 

I haven't got a snowball's chance of paying off the ccj, been unemployed for over 15 months.

 

Unfortunately don't have a scanner, besides which I don't appear to have received a particulars of claim anyway. I have two letters from Howard Cohen & co, one dated 15th April which is a "Notice of Assignment" saying the debt has been transferred from Santander Cards to CL Finance (dated 3 March). I never once received anything from CL Finance, not one letter or phone call. Notice of assignment says a claim has been submitted and that @unless you intend to enter a formal reply to the claim, payment in full of X, being the total amount shown in the Claim including costs, will prevent judgement being entered against you".

 

That's the point at which I got in touch with Cohens, made a card payment for 5 pounds and had an arrangement accepted over the phone (or so I thought).

 

I then got a letter dated 26th April reminding me to respond within 14 days and stating "If you have already responded to the claim please ignore this letter". I thought I had responded and thus did nothing else.

 

It appears that this is standard practice for Cohens judging by what I've seen on the CAG forums, one way or another I am not going to stop until I get justice on this one, I can't believe even solicitors appear to have no compunction to follow the rules.

[AngryExBanker]

Oh and by the way it was an ASDA storecard, issued by GE Finance I believe.

[citizenB]

So, have you not had a claim from the court ? If there is anyway at all you can get a copy of the letter from Cohen's posted on your thread, that could be very useful.

 

Make sure you remove all personal details from it first.

 

If you havent received a claim form, then you cant have entered any response to it ?

 

If you have been misled by Cohens, then you can make a complaint to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

[AngryExBanker]

Apols, my mistake, I do have a Claim Form. Can't scan it in (had to sell my scanner, natch!) but it's dated 19th April (only 4 days after the letter from Cohens, is that normal?), from Northampton Bulk centre.

 

Particulars of Claim - "The Claimant's claim is for the sum of XX being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement between the Defendant and Santander Cards UK Limited under reference XXXX and assigned to the Claimant on the 3rd March, 2010, notice of which has been given to the Defendant.

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the Defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement, the Claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 25.560% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgment, or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of 0.36"

 

Rest of it appears to be pretty much a form letter, with details of the court address, my address and the claimant's address, and some 'guidance notes' which didn't offer any guidance on the back. It does say that "Entering an admission may result in judgment being entered against you". Note the 'may' rather than 'will', I didn't dispute that I owed them money, was just asking for the umpteenth time to take token payments until I could find a job. I've just searched through all my old letters again and still can't find any correspondence from a CL Finance. I submitted an income & expenditure form to Santander regarding this account on 12th February and didn't hear anything else until the 15th April letter from Cohens.

 

Still no update from the BS though, sitting here literally shaking waiting!

[citizenB]

Apols, my mistake, I do have a Claim Form. Can't scan it in (had to sell my scanner, natch!) but it's dated 19th April (only 4 days after the letter from Cohens, is that normal?), from Northampton Bulk centre.

 

Particulars of Claim - "The Claimant's claim is for the sum of XX being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant under a regulated credit agreement between the Defendant and Santander Cards UK Limited under reference XXXX and assigned to the Claimant on the 3rd March, 2010, notice of which has been given to the Defendant.

 

The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the Defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

Pursuant to clause 7 of the agreement, the Claimant also claims contractual interest at a rate of 25.560% per annum from the date of these proceedings to the date of judgment, or sooner payment, accruing at a daily rate of 0.36"

 

Rest of it appears to be pretty much a form letter, with details of the court address, my address and the claimant's address, and some 'guidance notes' which didn't offer any guidance on the back. It does say that "Entering an admission may result in judgment being entered against you". Note the 'may' rather than 'will', I didn't dispute that I owed them money, was just asking for the umpteenth time to take token payments until I could find a job. I've just searched through all my old letters again and still can't find any correspondence from a CL Finance. I submitted an income & expenditure form to Santander regarding this account on 12th February and didn't hear anything else until the 15th April letter from Cohens.

 

Still no update from the BS though, sitting here literally shaking waiting!

 

 

Hi, there is NO normal with Cohens.. but you do have to be on the ball with them.

 

Ok, your claim form has a date of issue of 19th April 2010. This gave you until 8th May to acknowledge service. Using the password on the claim form you could have done that online. Did you and what did you tick ?

 

You then have until the 22nd May to put in a defence.

 

I dont know for sure but if you were misled into thinking that you didnt have to do anything by Cohens.. you may still be able to salvage something out of this. From the quote I have brought forward from your first post then I suspect you have been misled.

 

 

I got correspondence from the ever-lovely Howard Cohen & Co (a notice of assignment) on 15th April, and when I phoned up to find out what I was supposed to do, was told simply to return the form saying I didn't dispute the debt, that they would accept payment of GBP5 per month (due to long-term unemployment), and actually took a 5 pound payment over the phone via my debit card.

 

 

 

I will hit the SOS button for you and try and get some site team advice.

 

It sure is sad that you didnt find CAG sooner

[AngryExBanker]

Thanks Citizen B, and you're right, although I've been aware of CAG around charging issues for ages I didn't even think to post something about this! Only really found out about it on Friday anyway.

 

Anyway, I didn't do anything online, I returned a form to Cohens saying I didn't dispute the debt, and just needed them to finally accept the token payment agreement I'd been asking for for months. It was not clear from any of the letters that accepting the claim (I wasn't disputing it as I do owe the money on the card, and I'm never deliberately dishonest) would result in the CCJ being lodged. When I phoned Cohens I literally asked "what do you need me to do" and I was told that since I couldn't pay off the whole lot I should fill in the form and ask for time to pay. Operator didn't mention that it meant I'd be hit with a CCJ, although she may have asked if I knew what a CCJ was. Having worked in FS for years (I'm a Chartered Banker) I said that I did know what it was and nothing further was said!

 

Still no response re the job. Still shaking!

[AngryExBanker]

Incidentally I've just noticed that the only Debit Card transaction on my statement that corresponds, on the date and the amount, to the Cohens call has been paid to a "Lewis Group Ltd", assume that's a parent company or something.

[AngryExBanker]

Update - just got a call from the BS and they still haven't been able to come to a final decision.

 

CitizenB - if I've got til the 22nd to defend myself could I (assuming I can sell one or more things to raise the money) still pay off the ccj and have it 'expunged' or whatever it's called? Even if it's already been registered?

 

Again thanks in advance for any help and retrospective thanks to those who've already offered it!

[citizenB]

Ouch.. well I have sent out some SOS appeals as well as asking the site team to look in on you.

 

Hopefully they will be able to. You may not get any responses until later on this evening as most peeps have day jobs.

 

I do so hope your employment hasnt been compromised by this.

 

have also moved your thread to the legal issues forum as a claim form has been issued.

[AngryExBanker]

Thanks again B, very much appreciated. At least they appear willing to consider my case on an individual basis rather than just binning me, which offers at least a little hope, and the CCJ is relatively small (I could easily clear it within 2 months of starting work!). I believe the issue with FS companies is that they think somebody with huge debts is a fraud risk, and my total debt is fairly miniscule compared to the salary on offer so hopefully they'll take that into consideration too.

 

I hope my parents are ready to take back a 34-year-old man-child if it all goes mammaries-up!

 

I'll check in again later.

[vint1954]

If you are still at Northampton with time to defend, you should not have a CCJ on your record, unless they have got a summary judgement. Have you been informed of this yet?

[vint1954]

You will need to log on to the moneyclaim website at Northampton and check the status of your claim. It is offline at present until tomorrow.

 

If you can get online, you need to try and acknowledge the claim online indicating that you intend to defend in full.

 

You will then need to ask for additional time to defend. You should be able to get an additional 14 days online.

 

If you can get past that, you need to swiftly send a CPR 31.14 letter to the other sides solicitors. We can work out a letter for you to send, assuming that summary judgement has not been entered against you. If it has, you will need to apply to have this set aside, on the grounds that you were missled.

 

Assuming that you are able to acknowledge and get extra time, do you have a copy of the Default notice that they sent to you. This would be from the Original creditor.

[citizenB]

Thanks for popping in vint.. I forgot to add these links for OP to have a look at.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/255329-cpr-18-cpr-31-a.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

 

HTH

[vint1954]

No problem CB.

 

Hope you are well.

[citizenB]

No problem CB.

 

Hope you are well.

 

Yes, thank you.

[vint1954]

AngryExBanker,

 

In case we get that far, below is a CPR request. Just need to fill in your details.

 

Time is of the essence though.

 

To claimants solicitors

Dear Sir,

 

Re: xxxxxxxxxx v xxxxxxxxxxxx

Case No: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On xxxxxxxxxxxx, I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton ( CCBC ) County Court.

 

I confirm that I am in the process or returning my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim following inaccurate information from yourselves.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 The agreement, a true copy of both sides of the original executed agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 The default notice

 

3 The termination notice

4. The Deed of assignment.

5 Any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions, which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

[summerbreeze]

Hi

If you only had the Notice of assignment in April it would be amazing if a Judgment had beem granted against you so soon.

Who says you have a CCJ ?

Who told your prospective employer you have a CCJ ?

Sounds to me as if you have a County Court Claim against you but not a County Court Judgment yet .

Have you actually had a claim form from Northampton ?

Have you had an order from the Court saying judgment has been granted against you ?

[vint1954]

Hi

If you only had the Notice of assignment in April it would be amazing if a Judgment had beem granted against you so soon.

Who says you have a CCJ ?

Who told your prospective employer you have a CCJ ?

Sounds to me as if you have a County Court Claim against you but not a County Court Judgment yet .

Have you actually had a claim form from Northampton ?

Have you had an order from the Court saying judgment has been granted against you ?

Looks very much like a claim summerbreeze, but the poster was talked into signing an admission of the debt, before that claim.

[AngryExBanker]

Hi all, and thanks again for the responses thus far.

 

Vint - I'll check in with moneyclaim first thing tomorrow morning.

 

I do have a letter dated 4 May which is a "Judgement for Claimant (acceptance)". Don't know whether that means it's a Summary Judgement or not, but it does say that "You have made an offer of payment which the claimant has accepted", but it wasn't clear on first reading that this constituted a CCJ, I thought it was just confirmation that they'd agreed to the payments I had offered!

 

I don't unfortunately have the original Default notice if indeed I ever received it, and I'd reiterate that I did not receive any communication from CL Finance, didn't even know the debt had been turned over to them until I got the 15th April letter from Cohens.

 

Summerbreeze (fantastic song by the way, can hear the Isleys crooning away in my head.....), the society who offered me the job ran a credit search (standard procedure for Financial Services jobs) and they phoned me this afternoon to say they'd seen the CCJ and that it was an issue, so I have to assume that one or all three of the CRAs have already been informed.

 

Am I right in thinking that if I somehow manage to pull the money together, in a worst-case scenario, and paid it off the CCJ would be removed from my file? Also if it does stop my employment offer could I, should I go down the road of litigation, claim actual damages as well as damage to reputation?

 

What a bleedin' mess, again thanks to all who've responded.

[vint1954]

If this is the only debt you have, it sound like they have obtained judgement, although there should be something from the court.

 

You will have to look at getting it set aside.

 

There should be an order with the judgement, instructing payment.

[AngryExBanker]

Hi Vint

 

I've only got two things that might be court documents, the Claim Form (the blue one that I replied to offering payment) and the Judgement For Claimant saying I must pay X amount by instalments of GBP5 per month with first payment to reach claimant by 19 May (assuming my debit card payment covers that first payment, Standing Order set up accordingly).

 

Looks like I'll have to apply for a set aside. Any way of doing this without incurring the GBP75 charge I've heard about?

[foolishgirl]

Hi Angry

 

Just adding my 2p as requested - comments below

 

Am I right in thinking that if I somehow manage to pull the money together, in a worst-case scenario, and paid it off the CCJ would be removed from my file?

 

No, it wouldn't be removed for 6 years unless you get it aside, defend & win your case

 

Also if it does stop my employment offer could I, should I go down the road of litigation, claim actual damages as well as damage to reputation?

 

Depends on the status of the alleged CCJ. If it has been granted by the court, no you couldn't litigate. If it hasn't been granted by the court & the Creditor has recorded it with the CRAs in advance of judgment, yes you could.

[foolishgirl]

Looks like I'll have to apply for a set aside. Any way of doing this without incurring the GBP75 charge I've heard about?

 

You'll have to pay the fee unless you are exempt but you may be able to reclaim as part of your costs if you eventually win the case