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Help Needed! CCTV PCN now Form TE3


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Hello All.

 

The story so far.

 

Waited in car briefly (2-3 minutes), along with other cars on a road in London. Did not notice any restriction signage.

 

Received a PCN (£50) in the post sometime thereafter from Local Council (North East London. I've withheld their name as I hear they now monitor these forums).

 

Sent 1st Letter as per 'acceptance to pay on proof of claim' template letters. (Please don't rubbish that approach if you are not familiar with it. Have seen such letters successfully ward off at least three PCNs in 2009. Btw, I did not get those templates from CAG but I know that others here have encountered or used them before).

 

These letters essentially ask the Council to prove the validity of their claim or stop demanding payment. The letters never refuse to pay nor do they admit liability. They simply ask the Claimant to prove or go away. The council have claimed that they have both video and picture evidence and have sent some timestamped still images which indicate a roughly 2 min waiting time. However, for me, the images are still subject to error as they can easily be manipulated using photoshop or other such tools.

 

Since then, I have received six (6) pieces of correspondence from the council in relation to this and now a seventh, from the TEC - Traffic Enforcement Centre @ NCCBulk Centre.

 

Their 1st response was 'we will look into your letter and suspend the 14/28 day discount period' etc.

The 2nd was to 'Reject my Formal Representations'

The 3rd was guidance on how to appeal

The 4th was a letter asking me to stop writing to the council Chief Exec as he could not intervene

The 5th was a Charge Certificate - in a 'scary' red hue...

The 6th was another letter saying I now owed £150 as I failed to appeal etc.

 

The latest is now this TE3 from their co-conspirators at the TEC.

 

How may I deal with it?

 

I have seen one possible breach in their letters. In their latest letter, there is the statement 'The Council will register the outstanding debt at Northampton County Court and you will receive an Order for Recovery Notice with a Witness Statement form'.

 

Based on comments from an earlier post elsewhere by Fair-Parking who has a good understanding of these matters, I suspect that may be construed as a mis leading statement. They have stated that the PCN will be County Court registered and have the effect of such a registration when it will not. The TEC is not the same as the County Court, just based in the same building!!! Their Register is not the same as the Court's Registry Trust!

 

So what's that then, misrepresentation, passing off, deception?

Edited by bustthematrix
Clarification

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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There is no fruit of the poisoned tree doctrine in the UK. You need to look for a method within the regs. Was this a reg 10 PCN/NTO under the TMA or was it issued under the LLA ? Your post is still light on the key facts. You may have had three go away using the Freeman type letters but that was not because of the contents. Without turning this around the next thing will be Bailiff's turning up and they don't care about joinder or that you are human being and you will not be able to 'waive their benefit' etc.

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There is no fruit of the poisoned tree doctrine in the UK.

What do you mean by this?

 

You need to look for a method within the regs.

I realise this, hence my posting here.

 

Was this a reg 10 PCN/NTO under the TMA or was it issued under the LLA?

Please clarify what you mean? What is the LLA?

 

Your post is still light on the key facts

What further key facts would you like to see? Please be specific.

 

You may have had three go away using the Freeman type letters but that was not because of the contents.

Don't be so certain Lamma. Others have had success using similiar methods. I'm not saying it's a complete solution, but it has worked before so why not use it when it does?

 

Without turning this around the next thing will be Bailiff's turning up and they don't care about joinder or that you are human being and you will not be able to 'waive their benefit' etc.

Understood. Hence why I'm posting here to get assistance with the TE3 'within the regs' or if you like, Statutory process.

FYI, I'm not a fundamental 'Freeman-ist' (though I won't knock anyone who chooses to be). I will simply utilise all the relevant tools at my disposal to obtain a just remedy where it makes sense for me to do so (however one may wish to argue or justify that).

 

So then, are you going to try and help or keep lecturing me about my prior approach?:( It's a bit late for that now as I have the TE3 to deal with ASAP.:rolleyes:

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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LLA explained in your other thread. To repeat, without seeing the paperwork we don't know which regs and so can't tell if there is a statutory out for you. You are still too fact free. re the poisoned tree - Google Search Have lost count of the times I have asked for the relevant paperwork to be shown. no one can advise you based on guesswork and what you have supplied, I sure can't.

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Hi Lamma

 

As far as I can determine from their letters, the Council has invoked the following two Acts to justify their activities:-

 

- Traffic Management Act 2004

- Local Authorities Act 2000

 

It seems you want to see this through using the Freeman approach, the Bailiffs won't care too much about that.

No I don't. If I did, I'd go to the Freeman areas for that, not here. The matter is 'winnable' using Freeman type stuff if I wished to pay the £155.00 and then go after them for several times more money but I'd rather not as I don't want to pay the £155 and spend further money and time writing further letters and getting Notaries involved etc.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Have lost count of the times I have asked for the relevant paperwork to be shown. no one can advise you based on guesswork and what you have supplied, I sure can't.

Hi Lamma

You are only now asking me to show 'relevant paperwrok'.You did not make this request earlier. You asked for more 'facts' and I asked you to be more specific about what you need so I could supply it?

 

I will scan and post up the letters I've received thus far.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Based on comments from an earlier post elsewhere by Fair-Parking who has a good understanding of these matters, I suspect that may be construed as a mis leading statement. They have stated that the PCN will be County Court registered and have the effect of such a registration when it will not. The TEC is not the same as the County Court, just based in the same building!!! Their Register is not the same as the Court's Registry Trust!

 

So what's that then, misrepresentation, passing off, deception?

Any thoughts on this anyone?

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Hi Lamma

 

As far as I can determine from their letters, the Council has invoked the following two Acts to justify their activities:-

 

- Traffic Management Act 2004

- Local Authorities Act 2000

 

 

No I don't. If I did, I'd go to the Freeman areas for that, not here. The matter is 'winnable' using Freeman type stuff if I wished to pay the £155.00 and then go after them for several times more money but I'd rather not as I don't want to pay the £155 and spend further money and time writing further letters and getting Notaries involved etc.

 

TMA and LAA ? sounds like you would have had a winner if you had appealed within the deadline.

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Any thoughts on this anyone?

 

You are onto a sure-fire loser with this one.

 

The reality of this is that you are pretty much the author of your own misfortune as far as I can see. The one thing from what you have said that I can see (from the info you give) is that you received a letter rejecting your formal representations when you had only responded informally. It is also not clear from what you say that you received a Notice To Owner. I suspect you did but failed to read and/or appreciate the significance of it and/or thought that because you were writing to "the council" that was enough.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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You are onto a sure-fire loser with this one.

 

The reality of this is that you are pretty much the author of your own misfortune as far as I can see. The one thing from what you have said that I can see (from the info you give) is that you received a letter rejecting your formal representations when you had only responded informally. It is also not clear from what you say that you received a Notice To Owner. I suspect you did but failed to read and/or appreciate the significance of it and/or thought that because you were writing to "the council" that was enough.

Thanks.

 

So, nothing that can be done with the TE3??

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Thanks.

 

So, nothing that can be done with the TE3??

 

I was responding to:

 

So what's that then, misrepresentation, passing off, deception?

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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No Worries. What can be done wrt the TE3 I have received?

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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No Worries. What can be done wrt the TE3 I have received?

 

Pay the debt would seem the most sensible option since you have no grounds to file a witness statement. You could of course refuse to recognise the TEC and do nothing but that would end up with a visit from the baliffs.

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Pay the debt would seem the most sensible option since you have no grounds to file a witness statement. You could of course refuse to recognise the TEC and do nothing but that would end up with a visit from the baliffs.
I've asked for help as to what I 'may' be able to do going forward. Yet those who've posted so far seem more interested in slighting my past approach than in looking at options going forward.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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I've asked for help as to what I 'may' be able to do going forward. Yet those who've posted so far seem more interested in slighting my past approach than in looking at options going forward.

 

That may have something to do with the fact that your past approach has restricted your options to the point where the only one you appear to have is a Hobson's Choice.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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That may have something to do with the fact that your past approach has restricted your options to the point where the only one you appear to have is a Hobson's Choice.

I don't have a problem with that, as long you can clearly say WHY you believe that is the case.

 

I do have a problem with needless cynicism as that is not what CAG is for. As I have already repeatedly said, and which appears to be past the comprehension of some, it has worked in the past! Of course, had it worked in this case, this thread would not be here!!! If something's worked in the past you don't stop using it do you? Unless of course you're in the habit of fixing that which is not broken - and I am not.

 

When it breaks or appears to no longer be working, it's time to try a different approach!!!

 

Hence this thread!!!:) I hope that's clear enough.

 

Now can any further posters please stop the 'your past approach has mucked things up' line as I'm well aware of that..now.:p

 

Please only post if you can suggest a possible 'out' going forward. Such as a method to buy more time or get back in the appeal process or something to compel the Claimant to produce the evidence on which their charge is based etc.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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only you have the paperwork so only you can work it out

Oh really???:???:

 

So what does CAG exist for then? If we could all work everything out ourselves why ever ask others for help???:(

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Yes really - as only you have the paperwork ! Don't you get that. We haven't seen it so anything we say is a guess. While you keep it a secret exactly what do you think we could for you apart from guess.

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Hi Lamma

 

The title of my thread said "Help Needed" not criticism needed. If anyone had said, 'please post your docs and we'll see what we can do to help' then fine. I didn't need to be repeatedly reminded my initial approach had not worked in this case as it was ever so obvious...

 

As it happens, I've now scanned all the letters I've received but as I've not done this before here, I'm having difficulty deleting the vitals. Once I do, I'll post them up.

 

Thanks in advance.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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any free image editing software will do it. what problems are you having, you said on the 13 you would scan and post the documents. which was when you were asked to post them. and why are still going on about your initial approach in reply to my post which doesn't even mention it.

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Hi Lamma

It's not you, it's those who've posted since you did last week.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Hi Lamma

 

Sorry m8, I'm working and posting in between. I've scanned as .tif/tiff and I'm having a look to see what I can use to edit without destroying the useful info.

 

I'll revert soon.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Hi Lama

 

Please find attached letters 2-6. Letter 1 seems to be missing for now but I'll try to dig it out.

 

It seems to me that the following arguments may be usable:-

 

Letter 2: My letters to the Council are called Formal presentations. Elsewhere, someone has commented that these letters are in fact informal and not formal. Is this correct? If it is, perhaps it could be used as a tool to turn back the clock?

 

Letter 4: This is the Charge Certificate. The text at the bottom clearly suggests that an Order by the TEC is an Order by Northampton County Court with the same effect/power as a County Court Judgement. I understand this is not correct and is therefore a misleading statement.

 

Letter 5: Final letter. Again, there is text in the letter that clearly suggests that the TEC is the same as NCC when it isn't. It is only based there. Since this is not correct and is therefore a misleading statement.

PCN Letters 2-6.zip

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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