Central Ticketing Fine, Moorgate, Bury

[tatey39]

Hi, first time poster, long time reader....

 

Got hit with a CT fine yesterday for parking on the Moorgate retail Park car park, Bury yesterday.

 

Drove from work at 11:00am, parked in the car park (size of a football field with 6 cars in it..!!!) for two reasons. In terms of the actual offence, they claim I abused (what is reason 0022?) their parking system by leaving the area. Whilst I did; to pick up a prescription, (they ticketed me at 11:10am) I also returned at 11:18am and bought some oil from Halfords (receipt time is 11:28am).

 

Relatively straight forward; however, taking the "abusing" note into consideration, had I wanted to simply "park and run", it may have been easier for me to have left the vehicle closer to the pharmacy, as they have a car park immediately adjacent to the building (Derby Way) and not too far from the retail park, plus it is free for short periods..!!

 

As an aside, if they have no barrier system in place, a logged "arrival" time for my vehicle plus (I assume) no way of knowing that I left the site; what is the basis of the charge, other than trespass (a tort, not contractual)? Surely, they cannot confirm whether I was in attendance, was in store, was deliberately using their car park to access "other" businesses, planning on returning to purchase?

 

I have seen much talk of "no contract"; by this I assume the four tennets:

 

1. Offer

2. Acceptance

3. The intention to enter into a legally binding agreement

4. Exchange

 

If this is the case, point 1....Yes; 2....No, as I hadn't seen the relatively small signs; 3....Definitely not; 4.....I suppose this would constitute the purchase from Halfords?

 

In this respect, I assume I did not hold a contract?

 

As for the DVLA, CT have a voluntary agreement with their CoP (very brief CoP I might add..!!) and; as it is NOT an approved CoP, is not actually statute, but will hold some leverage in civil prosecutions. On the down side, it has very little for the motorist in terms of useful loopholes (probably why it's short..!!), so it's not surprising they quote it at "appeals".

 

Finally, the Woolf reforms mean any information should be provided prior to a civil hearing in order that the opposing parties can sort their problems out before it is heard in court. Evidence needs to be seen and supporting documentation; so do I ask for their evidence of my alleged "crime" (dated/timed CCTV/photographs)?

 

Unfortunately, in my haste (bearing in mind I was feeling ill (Pharmacy visit) and somewhat angry), I did contact them (through their website) asking for an e-mail address so the matter could be dealt with expeditiously. They now have the ticket reference, my work e-mail address and mobile number, but bugger all else. Bit of a mistake, but I can't reverse that now.

 

Reading a lot of the comments on this forum it seems the best thing to do is ignore the charge and sit tight through the letter/e-mail/phone barrage.....

 

Any comments would be greatly appreciated......

 

Peace and thanks/well done to all the "helpers" on here..!!

[lamma]

just ignore the [problematic].

[DDWales]

Hi, first time poster, long time reader....

 

Got hit with a CT fine yesterday for parking on the Moorgate retail Park car park, Bury yesterday.

 

Drove from work at 11:00am, parked in the car park (size of a football field with 6 cars in it..!!!) for two reasons. In terms of the actual offence, they claim I abused (what is reason 0022?) their parking system by leaving the area. Whilst I did; to pick up a prescription, (they ticketed me at 11:10am) I also returned at 11:18am and bought some oil from Halfords (receipt time is 11:28am).

 

Relatively straight forward; however, taking the "abusing" note into consideration, had I wanted to simply "park and run", it may have been easier for me to have left the vehicle closer to the pharmacy, as they have a car park immediately adjacent to the building (Derby Way) and not too far from the retail park, plus it is free for short periods..!!

 

As an aside, if they have no barrier system in place, a logged "arrival" time for my vehicle plus (I assume) no way of knowing that I left the site; what is the basis of the charge, other than trespass (a tort, not contractual)? Surely, they cannot confirm whether I was in attendance, was in store, was deliberately using their car park to access "other" businesses, planning on returning to purchase?

 

I have seen much talk of "no contract"; by this I assume the four tennets:

 

1. Offer

2. Acceptance

3. The intention to enter into a legally binding agreement

4. Exchange

 

If this is the case, point 1....Yes; 2....No, as I hadn't seen the relatively small signs; 3....Definitely not; 4.....I suppose this would constitute the purchase from Halfords?

 

In this respect, I assume I did not hold a contract?

 

As for the DVLA, CT have a voluntary agreement with their CoP (very brief CoP I might add..!!) and; as it is NOT an approved CoP, is not actually statute, but will hold some leverage in civil prosecutions. On the down side, it has very little for the motorist in terms of useful loopholes (probably why it's short..!!), so it's not surprising they quote it at "appeals".

 

Finally, the Woolf reforms mean any information should be provided prior to a civil hearing in order that the opposing parties can sort their problems out before it is heard in court. Evidence needs to be seen and supporting documentation; so do I ask for their evidence of my alleged "crime" (dated/timed CCTV/photographs)?

 

Unfortunately, in my haste (bearing in mind I was feeling ill (Pharmacy visit) and somewhat angry), I did contact them (through their website) asking for an e-mail address so the matter could be dealt with expeditiously. They now have the ticket reference, my work e-mail address and mobile number, but bugger all else. Bit of a mistake, but I can't reverse that now.

 

Reading a lot of the comments on this forum it seems the best thing to do is ignore the charge and sit tight through the letter/e-mail/phone barrage.....

 

Any comments would be greatly appreciated......

 

Peace and thanks/well done to all the "helpers" on here..!!

 

Hi and welcome

There are two rules rules on here when it comes to PPC issues. Firstly relax and ignore, secondly, if still not sure go to rule 1. This is a [problem] so dont lose any sleep over it. What you have is an unenforcable invoice, not a 'fine' and no 'offence' has been committed ethier. Its unfortunate that you have already contacted them but no worries. They may phone but most probably will get thier DCA involved and send you a few 'threatograms' claiming that if you dont pay in 48 hours all hell will break loose...all nonsense. Just ignore and make no further contact. If you need any further reassurrance just post up on here.

[dx100uk]

ignore

 

dx

[Dublindel]

Ignore and get lots me harassing letters, so be mentally prepared or have fun and play with them. Have some fun. Your choice but do not pay

[Al27]

In this respect, I assume I did not hold a contract?

 

Contract is you agreed not to leave premises. You may have breached that so they may be entitled to recompense.

 

Which would be zero pounds. You caused them no loss, especially if you bought from Halfords.

 

A contract stating "don't leave. But if you do leave you agree to pay £xx' doesn't constitute an offer.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Al27

[tatey39]

You are all stars, many thanks.......I await the tirade.......

 

Just been talking to an administrator/legal student in my business and they said "I never pay any of them, even if it's the Council".....

 

My wife just said "just let them take us to court"... Head screwed on right methinks.....

 

Peace.

 

[Dublindel]

Send empty envelopes with no stamps to payments dept. It will cost them the postage plus a pound

[Folkiedave]

Put a cheque sized piece of paper inside and mark it "payments department" just to make sure they accept it.

[tatey39]

Oooh.....You are naughty....

 

I spoke to a parking manager friend of mine at the Council today and he said ignore it as they always prosecute under the wrong piece of legislation anyway. He said they tend to try and use Council dictums as a way of scaring drivers, but they should really be looking at a tort of trespass.

 

May just send the envelopes/"cheques" for a bit of fun. I'm really surprised that no one has asked the Police to intervene and get them on harassment charges yet..!

[Al27]

Private companies cannot 'prosecute' and there is no legislation.

 

It's purely a civil contractual issue. Except they're trying to obtain money that could only result from a breach of that contract - an unenforceable penalty.

 

Have a read of this for background purposes: Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman - FightBack Forums

 

In your situation they're just send some threatening letters and then give up. This is a mail [problem].

[tatey39]

Thanks Al.

 

Like reading about cases such as the one attached, it sheds light on the background.

[billy bob66]

tatey39 just found your thread and can tell you by past dealings with these clowns that they are just full of hot air. i to got a ticket last year(april) and chose to ignore. got four or five letters through the post,2 from debt collection then 2 fron g.white solicitors then as if by magic they must of lost my address because have had nothing for six months.

 

just ignore these clowns and they should go away in time,this is the same bunch of toerags that used to [problem] in tesco but now tesco carpark is scamed by ncp,or npc,yet its the same bloke handing out begging notices so could be working for same company.

 

if they wher to take you to a small claims court then just read this thread to the end and rest easy, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/47047-am-i-buggered-scans.html

 

 

and remember ignore,ignore,ignore

[Bait_one]

Just a quick word,

I got a ticket off these today from parking outside my work, there are double yellows about, but i wasnt parked on or touching them i was on the curb which has some grass and a wide path, not obstructing anything or anyone, colleagues of mine also got the ticket, should i just ignore it too?

 

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

Just a quick word,

I got a ticket off these today from parking outside my work, there are double yellows about, but i wasnt parked on or touching them i was on the curb which has some grass and a wide path, not obstructing anything or anyone, colleagues of mine also got the ticket, should i just ignore it too?

 

Thank you.

 

you need to start your own thread

 

was this at the same venue?

 

mike

[Bait_one]

Ok ill start own thread and no it wasnt.

[dx100uk]

then you dont ignore it

 

if it says

penalty charge notice

 

then its real and FYI: the DYL cover upto the boundary fence of the adjacent property inc path/grass etc etc.

 

dx

[lamma]

if it says penalty charge notice on the ticket - ignore the envelope. But I have seen PPC tickets that call themselves a "penalty charge notice. is there a council name on the ticket ?

[Bait_one]

It says Parking charge on the ticket, and no there is no council name on the ticket.

 

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2634/parkingedit.jpg

Edited May 18, 2010 by Bait_one

[Al27]

Toilet paper.

 

Ignore.

 

Their crest is hilarious.

[tatey39]

Same as my ticket.........Good isn't it.....;)

 

I'll post my first letter for your entertainment...........

[billy bob66]

well done to the apes at ct now they can press button and type,last year all they could do was tick a box and copy a reg plate.

 

three cheers for the monkeys hip hip,---hip hip,---hip hip.

 

ct better be careful soon they might be able to write their own names,then its out to get a proper job.

[SURFBOY]

Like how they say " it is an OFFENCE to remove this ticket" !!!

[DBC]

Like how they say " it is an OFFENCE to remove this ticket" !!!

 

I've just phoned Central Ticketing to ask them what particular law they think would be broken by removal of their toilet paper. The girl who I spoke to was unsure, but she did say it was "against the law". She did promise to get somebody further up the food chain to ring me back, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited May 19, 2010 by DBC

[SURFBOY]

Think i will call them mysel and ask what law ?

Will let you know how i get on ! lol