stat demand from arrow global need help

[dannybro]

hi received a sd from arrow global by hand on the 13/04/10

after reading a lot on here i have put in my defence as it was very similar to lorri-crofts post and i dont have a scanner so thanks lorri-croft

it is regarding an alliance and leicester credit card, i got a letter from clarity in 2008 saying i owed them money i cca d them for a copy they sent back terms and condition only from mbna who i believe had taken over a and l s credit cards but the alleged card was from a and l

heard nothing until 22/02/2010 when i got a letter from arrow global saying i owed them the money as they had took over the debt, i cca d them and receieved an application form from a and l money back credit card and terms and conditions from mbna the appl did not have the prescribed terms on it so i then subject access requested them enclosed a cheque for the £10 to which i received a letter saying that i needed to send them £10 for that request so they had lost the cheque, then on the 13/04/10 a man turned up and handed me the sd, i then read some more on this fab website and sent another sar and asked them to be more careful with the new cheque so far they have not cashed this cheque or acknowleged they have it and i did nt send by recorded, so got my defence ready then on the morning i was taking it to court i received a letter with my first cheque in it saying please find enclosed cheque sent to our offices. we would be grateful if you could return this to your client with the enclosed letter we have been unable to allocate him on our system and there fore unable to bank the cheque, i had typed my defence out but managed to write this bit at the end and add the letter sent to the defence, so this is where i need help i have a court date for the 4 june and i have been before but did nt realise what i was going for and the judge wiped the floor with me that was a diff matter so this time i need to be ready for the judge and there solicitor, any advise on what i need to be saying and what i need to take with me would be gratefully received many thanks dan

[mandyjayne]

Danny have you put in your 6.4/6.5 to set aside the SD from Arrow

 

MJ:)

 

If it helps have a read of my SD set aside from here...any questions just ask

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/195656-egg-barclays-lowells-sd-3.html#post2448000

Edited May 11, 2010 by mandyjayne

[postggj]

ave a nose at this developing thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/258608-capquest-have-issued-statutory.html

[Valdez is Coming]

Hi Dannybro... sorry to read your story. I am in a similar position with AG and have received some good advice from the forums here.

 

May l suggest you check if A&L issued a Default Notice prior to selling/assigning your account to the venemous Arrow Global? If so, is it in the required format with sufficient time for service (2 +14 days)?

Check this even if you received a Default Notice direct from AG.

 

Also check if you received a Notice of Assignment re this account.

Blackbear's thread in legal issues has some good info on it.

 

They sent me an illegible application form copy + some t&cs also.

AG is a very agressive DCA who flaut the law and will not co-operate. You need to put them on the back foot. Also complain to OFT & Trading Standards about their methods.

Good luck from Valdez

[dannybro]

hi everyone yes i have used the forms 6.4 and 6.5 put them into court and i now have the hearing date i can not even recall the credit card and no default notice or assignment notice in the 1998 when this application form is from i filled in a lot of application forms most being turned down which is why i asked for more info from them with the sar request i don t think they can have much info or why would they ignore my request with lost cheques etc will have a read of your post mandy later tonight, think the judge should side with me as iam only trying to get to the bottom of this also to see if its over the 6 years limit thanks again and any advise will be gratefully received will have a look at the threads tonight cheers dan

[dannybro]

just a quick question what happened in the manchester case will that be a problem for me cheers dan

[lorri-croft]

Hi Dannybro,

 

Your card was originally A&L

This from MBNA website:

 

As you may be aware, MBNA has been providing the Alliance & Leicester credit card since 2002.

However, Alliance & Leicester is now part of the Santander Group, and our relationship will be coming to an end. This means we are going to replace your card with one that carries the MBNA name.

Did you say you applied for the original A&L card in 1998? If prior to 2002, T&C's should be from A&L? Perhaps someone may clarify this for you as I do not know.

If this is the case, all you have received is a copy of a pre-contractual application form and more recent T&Cs (not even from the OC).

Valdez has offered good info with regard to Default and NOA. Prior to terminating an agreement and taking further action(which includes passing to a DCA), a creditor must issue a Default Notice (in the correct format and with sufficient time for service). Did you receive a NOA saying debt was being passed to Clarity? Did you receive one from Clarity saying it was being passed to AG?

My best advice is it's no good just using someone else's similar defence (this is good advice I was given). You must UNDERSTAND your own argument so that you are in a position to defend it. I spent hours and hours reading on this site and also reading case law references suggested, and printed off the case laws to which I referred in my SD from BAILII, together with relevant sections of the CCA, the OFT debt collection guidelines and Law of Proprty Act 1925 so that the Judge could see I'd done my research.

I was lucky that AG did not attend but, if they had, I knew what my arguments would be and I believe, I would have been in a position to defend as I'd done the research.

I have to say that, I had already SAR'd the OC successfully, so I knew exactly what paperwork AG would be able to come up with in advance. I knew there was no original CCA (only the precontractual app), and found no record of a Default being issued (had just had a rep programme agreed when Monument debts were sold off in bulk to Compucredit) so I had the 'heads up' there.

However, they are still being persistent (see update post on my thread).

[dannybro]

hi all could you help with this letter i have received today from arrow global

we write further to your application to set aside the statutory demand and note the contents therein. please find enclosed for your attention a reconstituted copy of the aggreement.

your sincerely

enclosed is a photo copy of a brand new mbna credit card agreement with all the terms etc and only my name and address filled in but at the time of the alleged card i was not living at that address not signed

a couple of questions the oc was alliance and leicester in 1998 i have only had an application form alliance sent which as no terms etc also should i sar alliance and mbna what good would this new form be to ag when they have already sent the proper form from alliance with no terms etc can i use this new form in my court hearing on the 4th june thanks

[dannybro]

hi All any advice on the second agreement are they allowed to do this i have also now sar mbna to see what they have anyone

[dannybro]

hi lorri when i said simlar to yours it was to give people an idea as to the situation as i don t have a scanner to my defence up on here, it was not the same as no 2 situations are, also yes ive looked on here for hours and if i see info which is an answer to a question i have i don t see any harm in using the said info in my defence sorry if using some of your info in questions you have asked and had answered as upset you

[lorri-croft]

You haven't upset me at all Dannybro...I merely was trying to say you need to be sure of your own arguments as you just don't know what will be thrown up in Court (many have had bad experiences) so you need to be prepared.

 

This same advice was given to me when I had an SD pending and it made me doubly sure to check any quote or advice given so I knew how to defend any AG's possible arguments thrown up in Court.

 

You are more than welcome to use ANY info in any posts I've made.

Regards.

Lorri-Croft

[lorri-croft]

Not sure if you've looked at this yet...it's scanned copies of all MBNA application/agreements in year of issue order (I just found it).

If you can match the one you've been provided, you can see what years' MBNA application it is....it is clearly then not only an application if it doesn't have the required T&C's but is from a period AFTER your card was issued.

 

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms

[dannybro]

HI thanks Lorri for the link iam confused with the info they have sent me ie the application form from alliance and leicester which is ok and the application form does not have the terms and then they send me a copy of a mbna form they had filled in my name and the wrong address as i did not move till 10 years after the application form was filled out so how can they say this is a copy of the agreement for the alliance and leicester card and at the time the mbna had nothing to do with alliance and leicester once again Lorri thanks for your help

[debbbbsy]

There trying to use the new Ammended CCA 2006, they can only use this for accounts set up after 2007 (not sure of exact date). But most defenitly doesn't apply to your card, it is still regulated by CCA 1974, they have to provide a true legible copy.

Send the "Debt in dispute" letter, and tell them were to go.

[dannybro]

hi Deb

yeah think thats what they are up to so sent the letter indispute and they still hand delivered a state demand i am now in court in june to try and get it set aside they have not answered my sar request so going in blind with what they will have is it possible if they turn up with a load of stuff could i ask for the case to be ajurned as i have not seen any ligit paper work

[debbbbsy]

I would strongly suggest you pre-empt any possible problem of them turning up with documents.

You could use CPR 31.14. This is a preaction disclosure of all documents they refer to in the court claim. They have 7 days. But they could still ignore.

You say you are in court in june, when you acknowledged the claim did you ask the court to do a "Draft Order for Directions"?

Once it is transferred to your court, you can ask the judge to order the claimant to provided the docs they refer to and rely upon to enforce the claim.

Debs

[dannybro]

hi Deb no i applied for the court hearing to get the stat demand set aside its not for a ccj

[dannybro]

hi all a quick update been to court today didnt go as smoothly as i had hoped but i got the set aside. this is what happened i got to court about 10 ish so bit early got called in at 10.50 the judge said your here for a stat demand set aside i said yes sir he then said you can not apply for a set aside without any evidence you need an affiridavid i said yes sir and had filed one with the court and the court sent me a copy stamped back he said well you better let me see it, i showed him it he said looks like a credit card i said thats what they are saying he then said did you have the money i said not that i am aware that is why iam trying to get to the bottom of this in the late 1990 s i had filled in a dozen application forms most got refused he said again why would they sue you if you had not had the money did you have the money not that iam aware he then said have they got a ccj over this i said no.why would they sue you if you had not had the money i said if they were here we could ask them he then said there is an application form here signed by you i said yes sir there was over 20 filled in in the late 1990s most got refused i would hate to have to pay on all of them, he said right i have no choice but to set aside and let them take the next step i asked about costs did not award any costs to me in not so many words i was lucky to get the set aside never mind costs he was totally on the side of arrow which is a worry but he had no choice but to follow the law