Fare evasion/Fraud? London buses*

[Pilchiri]

I know it sounds stupid and I have seen threads on this before,but I really really need help. Exam stress and being caught for fare evasion is making it a living nightmare. Havent slept/eaten/rested in the last 24 hrs. I was caught using my brother's 16+ photocard ytd morning while I was going to wk. I was running late,realized I only had 1 quid in my student oyster. Luckily or (I should rather say ironically) I had my brothers oyster with me,which he had left behind at home. He was staying over at his friend's place,which happens to be near my wrkplace. It was so stupid of me to use his card at the first place. Now I have to go to court and face prosecution (assuming) and on top of that,I have cost him his free travel as well! I don't know why I did it, I could not even justify myself in front of the inspector and admitted honestly. I am dreading the aspect of the legal procedures,hassles and the costs. Arghh too much stress at the same time,I am about to have a breakdown. I am aware what I did was very wrong and I could be done for dishonesty. I accept my mistake and know I can't be excused. But how do I make things right now? Do I really have to pay so much money as been mentioned in some of the threads? Do I get legal advice? It would be unreasonable to say that I did not do it to avoid paying for travel because money wasnt an issue,it was time. Anyway any statement that I make now seems insignificant and more stupid. I thought they let you off by paying penalty fare,but the court prosecution sounds absolutely terrifying. I never knew 20p would cost me so much!

Ps. I havent been sent a letter yet,but since my case is more likely to be linked to dishonesty;would I be charged for a more serious offence. How do I get a lenient sentence? Any help would be very much appreciated.

[Pilchiri]

Also do I have any mitigating factors in my defence? I noticed one person called the TFL and sorted it out over the phone. But my case seems pretty serious. Do I have ANY chance? One of my friends had to go through the same thing couple of weeks ago but it wasnt using someone else's oyster. She was travelling without ticket. She didnt get a CRB though,she just had to pay the legal costs.

How do I appeal for my brother's oyster.? It seems unfair on him because I was solely responsible for my stupid behaviour.

[UKP]

Hi there. Firstly, I feel your pain, as I had recently encountered a similar situation myself however, thanks to the commendable expertise from the users on this site, I was able to find a resolve...which I hope you will find as well.

 

With that said, in a mere effort to respond to you while you wait for responses from the experienced users here( I can relate to the sleepless nights, believe me), I would suggest that you either call TFL and/or draft a letter, letting them know that you accept responsibility for what happened and that you express deep remorse for it; basically GROVEL. The reason that you would need to take such a submissive stance is because it would be almost impossible for you to prove that you were unaware that you were using a pass that belonged to your brother. In addition, request an out-of-court settlement, letting them know that you are willing to pay the fare required plus any administrative costs. The details of your circumstances differ considerably to my previous situation however, if I were you, I would still give that a shot. If they happen to refuse your offer, then it would be in your best interests to look into legal representation for yourself, as a measure to avoid a criminal conviction.

 

Like I said, as an effort to share some info, consider that as a suggestion however, in due time, you may get some responses from the experts on this site...of whom I would sincerely advise you to adhere to their concise instructions/suggestions as it would be beneficial for you to do so. Good luck.

[Pilchiri]

Thank you for the reply, I was just about to close this thread. I thought it over and referring to other threads; I have decided to write to Tfl. I haven't been sent a letter yet but I am expecting one soon. I went to the CAB today and got the same advice as you've given. I am really hoping to avoid the criminal record as I have been offered a place for law in a respected university and I CANNOT take any risks. I am not in a position to afford legal representation and hence, I believe GROVEL is the only option I have. Since the nature of my case is pretty serious; I am not feeling so hopeful about it anyway. They probably get hundreds of calls/letters everyday. Its plain human nature to repent once you realize the consequences of your actions.All I can do is pray now and hope my letter is convincing enough.

Thanks again for your help,I shall remain highly grateful.

[Pilchiri]

I almost thought seeking advice here was a waste of time. The disappointment of not getting a reply back was adding up to the stress levels. Dealing with this issue has been a nightmare. Words do indeed,fail to express how much relief it has given me to get your reply,UKP.

Thank you so much for your kind consideration.

[Pilchiri]

Hi there. Firstly, I feel your pain, as I had recently encountered a similar situation myself however, thanks to the commendable expertise from the users on this site, I was able to find a resolve...which I hope you will find as well.

 

With that said, in a mere effort to respond to you while you wait for responses from the experienced users here( I can relate to the sleepless nights, believe me), I would suggest that you either call TFL and/or draft a letter, letting them know that you accept responsibility for what happened and that you express deep remorse for it; basically GROVEL. The reason that you would need to take such a submissive stance is because it would be almost impossible for you to prove that you were unaware that you were using a pass that belonged to your brother. In addition, request an out-of-court settlement, letting them know that you are willing to pay the fare required plus any administrative costs. The details of your circumstances differ considerably to my previous situation however, if I were you, I would still give that a shot. If they happen to refuse your offer, then it would be in your best interests to look into legal representation for yourself, as a measure to avoid a criminal conviction.

 

Like I said, as an effort to share some info, consider that as a suggestion however, in due time, you may get some responses from the experts on this site...of whom I would sincerely advise you to adhere to their concise instructions/suggestions as it would be beneficial for you to do so. Good luck.

 

Apologies if its annoying, I just went through your thread and did notice that your case does vary to mine considerably. And it seems you got yourself out of it quite well, congrats =)) It just makes me feel worse as carrying someone's photocard could be a serious offence,even though it wasn't intentional I presume it could be linked to strict liability offences? I am definitely pleading guilty,it is not just to serve my best interests but I do feel that I deserve it. I am having doubts if I should even expect for leniency from the authorities. Kindly forgive me if I sound like a crazy person,with things going on right now;I am certainly going insane sometime soon.

[UKP]

Apologies if its annoying, I just went through your thread and did notice that your case does vary to mine considerably. And it seems you got yourself out of it quite well, congrats =)) It just makes me feel worse as carrying someone's photocard could be a serious offence,even though it wasn't intentional I presume it could be linked to strict liability offences? I am definitely pleading guilty,it is not just to serve my best interests but I do feel that I deserve it. I am having doubts if I should even expect for leniency from the authorities. Kindly forgive me if I sound like a crazy person,with things going on right now;I am certainly going insane sometime soon.

 

 

No problem, man; I, personally, do not consider it annoying at all...as I know what that feeling of uncertainty is like in an instance like this.

 

In all honesty, regarding the categorization of offences etc, I am out of my depth there so, hopefully, the experts here will address those questions for you.

 

I know that you feel you deserve whatever consequences come your way...that you are not working only in your best interests etc which is noble of you. Therefore, based on what you have said, you have two options: 1) Simply plead guilty when served with a summons and subject yourself to any penalties they impose or 2) give them a call and take responsibility for your actions in the form of a settlement request.

Naturally both options are, essentially, just as noble as you are admitting guilt however the latter option (provided they accept it) will ensure that you are penalized considerably less than anything imposed by the court. Basically, gather your thoughts...remain as composed as you can...and give them a call during business hours tommorrow. In doing so, you will, at least, have an idea of where you stand...which means you can continue a plan for action, if need be. Until you receive further advice, I would give that a shot in the meantime. Good luck.

[Pilchiri]

Thank you again for your reply. It is very very much appreciated. I recieved the letters today. One has been addressed to me and the other one to my father,demanding a justification on behalf of my brother who is under-age. (totally dreading the aspect of giving him the letter tonight so fingers crossed*). Deciding to own up and coming in terms with the consequences is surprisingly helping me to be positive and I am still working on my appeal letter. However,due to some exam-related stress;I haven't been able to think clearly and nothing I write seems to sound/look convincing enough for me. In fact, its mentally exhausting; I have been working on this letter since 4 days now. Pheww! I am thinking that calling them up would be better than trying to justify through a letter. But ruling that idea out atm because I dont think it would be wise to ruin my chances with a phone call,especially if you get a really difficult person at the other side. Argh I wish this could be a very horrrible nightmare but alas its not! As if I didnt have enough to moan about already, now I have to worry about losing the prospects of going to university! Oh how I wish I was rich!!

[SRPO]

You could of course pay for legal advice from a solicitor....

[Old-CodJA]

I'll start by saying sorry if this sounds a little like preaching, but firstly, I'd take a minute to slow down a little and think positively rather than concentrate on the negativity borne of fear that this is likely to be more damaging than might be the case.

 

Yes, it is seen as a serious breach of trust to use someone else's Oyster season and the photocard makes it impossible for you to say 'I didn't know', but that doesn't mean it will always result in a prosecution if you put a good case for being allowed an alternative disposal

 

Take the time and trouble to write to the prosecutor's office expressing remorse and offering a sincere apology.

 

Explain that this was a one-off, out of character episode of silliness, borne of the panic of discovering at the last minute, that you had not got sufficient credit on your own Oyster nor means to pay the fare and realising that your brother was not using his pass, foolishly decided to use it to travel.

 

If you have never had a penalty fare notice or been warned in any sense about not having a valid ticket in the past, you should say so.

 

Ask politely if the company might allow you to settle administratively by paying the fare due and the costs incurred by your foolish actions?

 

Stress that you are just about to start a career and that you ask the prosecutor to consider that the effect of a successful prosecution would be likely to be grossly disproportionate to the level of offence committed.

 

You should undertake never to repeat the offence and to promptly make any payment that the company might decide appropriate as an administrative penalty.

 

They do not have to agree, but I am sure that any letter in those terms will be given proper consideration.

 

Good luck

[Pilchiri]

I'll start by saying sorry if this sounds a little like preaching, but firstly, I'd take a minute to slow down a little and think positively rather than concentrate on the negativity borne of fear that this is likely to be more damaging than might be the case.

 

Yes, it is seen as a serious breach of trust to use someone else's Oyster season and the photocard makes it impossible for you to say 'I didn't know', but that doesn't mean it will always result in a prosecution if you put a good case for being allowed an alternative disposal

 

Take the time and trouble to write to the prosecutor's office expressing remorse and offering a sincere apology.

 

Explain that this was a one-off, out of character episode of silliness, borne of the panic of discovering at the last minute, that you had not got sufficient credit on your own Oyster nor means to pay the fare and realising that your brother was not using his pass, foolishly decided to use it to travel.

 

If you have never had a penalty fare notice or been warned in any sense about not having a valid ticket in the past, you should say so.

 

Ask politely if the company might allow you to settle administratively by paying the fare due and the costs incurred by your foolish actions?

 

Stress that you are just about to start a career and that you ask the prosecutor to consider that the effect of a successful prosecution would be likely to be grossly disproportionate to the level of offence committed.

 

You should undertake never to repeat the offence and to promptly make any payment that the company might decide appropriate as an administrative penalty.

 

They do not have to agree, but I am sure that any letter in those terms will be given proper consideration.

 

Good luck

 

Thank you very much,sir. I am grateful for the advice,I truly am. I was just about to post my letter. some of the points that you have mentioned are very helpful and I will make sure that I include them. I can't be thankful enough,that is such an invaluable piece of advice!

[Pilchiri]

I would really like to thank everyone for their help and advices, I just recieved a letter saying that I am being let off with a final warning and the matter has been disposed,therefore. I am assuming that there would thus,be no prosecution brought up against me and there has been no implication of penalty as well.! This has been a life changing lesson and had it not been for the amazing people on this site and their guidance; I couldnt have been able to deal with it. Thank you everyone.! Especially OLDCodJa, your help is very much appreciated and I shall remain indebted to you forever. =)

[onebadday]

Lucky you Pilchiri.I got stuck yday for same thing....used my partner's student card in hurry and honestly I was ignorant that this is a crime . I had the impression that I am paying the fare anyways.Sounds foolish but yes this is me.

 

The inspector took my details. i mentioned to him of my ignorance and asked of I could pay the whatever difference.However, he mentioned that it was too late to do that.

 

I looked online and to my horror found that this is considered as a severe offence and can put a black spot on character forever.I am tensed a lot.

 

The details were taken by the inspector on a small notepad on 4 pages and took my signature on the last page.Can anyone please let me know that is there any hope that he doesn't forward this as I wonder if they send these details by tearing the pages from those small notepad.I , instead, would expect it to be some proforma. This is again a wishlist and I might be too optimistic.Would appreciate if people could share their view on this.

[Stigy]

The details were taken by the inspector on a small notepad on 4 pages and took my signature on the last page.Can anyone please let me know that is there any hope that he doesn't forward this as I wonder if they send these details by tearing the pages from those small notepad.I , instead, would expect it to be some proforma. This is again a wishlist and I might be too optimistic.Would appreciate if people could share their view on this.

Different companies use different methods. If the Inspector wrote your details down directly into a pocket note book, he'll more than likely write a statement saying exactly what happened, and photocopy his/her notes in support of this.

[onebadday]

Ohh...this mean that I would be getting some letter from them soon....can people suggest what should I do??

 

As mentioned in my earlier post also,I told him that I was ignorant of this being considered a crime and I mean this....I did not even know that student card is a discounted card until he told me and later when my partner blasted me for using his card....

 

I earn decent money and was definitely not trying to save on a few quids, I would say that I was just foolish not to know the rules properly and wanted to save my time , grabbed his card, got it topped up and used....WHAT A STUPIDITY....I am not a british citizen and my partner have plans to move to US as well later...I wonder if this incident will put my future in dark as I could read from posts that this mistake can cost me a criminal record.....Please help............I really need to know what to do..

[Stigy]

Ohh...this mean that I would be getting some letter from them soon....can people suggest what should I do??

 

As mentioned in my earlier post also,I told him that I was ignorant of this being considered a crime and I mean this....I did not even know that student card is a discounted card until he told me and later when my partner blasted me for using his card....

 

I earn decent money and was definitely not trying to save on a few quids, I would say that I was just foolish not to know the rules properly and wanted to save my time , grabbed his card, got it topped up and used....WHAT A STUPIDITY....I am not a british citizen and my partner have plans to move to US as well later...I wonder if this incident will put my future in dark as I could read from posts that this mistake can cost me a criminal record.....Please help............I really need to know what to do..

Wait for them to contact you before you contact them, it'll be evident straight away what your next step ought to be. Unfortunately ignorance is not a defence in these situations, and I'm sure you can appreciate, Inspectors have people pleading this all the time. Saying it's not a defence doesn't mean you shouldn't plead ignorance when you are written to though, afterall, there's alot resting on this I'm sure!

[onebadday]

thanks for your input Stigy. I know that there would be numerous people around who might do it intentional and thus a case of ignorance like mine might fall victim to same mindset of inspectors....I am now waiting to hear from them and will keep you and others posted on this thread....I really need to sort this without any black mark on my records...would appreciate the expert opinions from you and others on this thread.

[Stigy]

thanks for your input Stigy. I know that there would be numerous people around who might do it intentional and thus a case of ignorance like mine might fall victim to same mindset of inspectors....I am now waiting to hear from them and will keep you and others posted on this thread....I really need to sort this without any black mark on my records...would appreciate the expert opinions from you and others on this thread.

Read the letter when it arrives (could take several weeks I'm afraid!) and ascertain whether an out of court settlement would be appropriate!

[Old-CodJA]

I would really like to thank everyone for their help and advices, I just recieved a letter saying that I am being let off with a final warning and the matter has been disposed,therefore. I am assuming that there would thus,be no prosecution brought up against me and there has been no implication of penalty as well.! This has been a life changing lesson and had it not been for the amazing people on this site and their guidance; I couldnt have been able to deal with it. Thank you everyone.! Especially OLDCodJa, your help is very much appreciated and I shall remain indebted to you forever. =)

 

I'm pleased that it worked out OK for you. Well done. I'm sure that you'll remember to always hold a valid ticket in future.

[mk1]

same thing happened to me and i got let off know i have learnt from my mistake and pay for all fares

[onebadday]

hey guys, It happened on 10th July and I haven't yet received any letter.Does it take that long for the letter to come?what is the normal time frame in which people receive the letter after the incidence day? I am worries a lot.

[Wriggler7]

I do not know what the delays are in 'Tfl', but many similar operations have huge piles of work to get through without enough staff to do it all as quickly as it should be done.

 

If Tfl want to prosecute, they have to get all of the processes done within 6 months of the 'incident', and I would expect that you will get a letter from them in the next few days. If you don't, keep your patience, sometimes reports don't get written, sometimes they are flawed to a point that the 'prosecutor' doesn't want to use them.

[onebadday]

Hi All, the much scary letter has arrived today and they have mentioned about the incidence and asked me if I have any comments to make on that.Also, they have asked me to send across my details-name /addres etc again on the same letter.....please advice what should I do??I am scared now...

[onebadday]

Old CodJA , Wriggler,Stigy please respond....need expert guidance from u guys

[Stigy]

Old CodJA , Wriggler,Stigy please respond....need expert guidance from u guys

Hi again, as I said previously, respond to the letter accordingly, giving them all they ask for. If the letter states that you should put your version of events accross, so be it. Also include any mitigating circumstances you feel are relevent, although if you were questioned under caution it might be worth while only stating what was said during interview, otherwise it doesn't count...Well, it won't look too good anyway (bear in mind if you were questioned under cautioned, you would have been given the opportunity to sign the notes as accurate!). Inform them of your deepest regret and appologise profusely. Offer to pay all reasonable admin costs in order to stay out of court. At the end of the day, as unintentional as this might have been, an offence was unfortunately committed on your part, and you asking not to go to court is merely admiting you made an error of judgment, as opposed to saying you are a criminal.

 

TfL don't have to listen to your grovels, however, if you want to appeal to their better nature, this is the way to go about it. Good Luck!