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wowee wot a great site. so much info!

 

My wife got very upset when she read this letter from Phoenix but after I checked the OFT guidelines I think it probably doesn't meet the expected standards.

 

I would appreciate any helpful comments

 

 

“NOTIFICATION OF COURT PROCEEDINGS”

 

“As you have failed to make payment of money owing to xxxxxxxxxx, as previously requested, we are starting LEGAL ACTION through the County Court.

 

Seven days from the date of this letter, we intend to apply for a summons to be issued against you for non-payment of £xxx.xx

 

YOU SHOULD BE ADVISED THAT:

 

1) DUE TO COURT COSTS AND INTEREST, YOUR DEBT WILL INCREASE ON A DAILY BASIS

 

2) A COUNTY COURT JUDGEMENT (checked by stores for credit worthiness) WILL BE ISSUED

 

3) IF THE JUDGEMENT IS EXECUTED, BAILIFF WILL ATTEND YOUR PROPERTY AND REMOVE YOUR POSSESSIONS.

 

THIS ACTION CAN BE AVOIDED IF FULL PAYMENT OF £xxx.xx IS MADE TO OUR OFFICE BY RETURN

 

Yours faithfully

 

Phoenix

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Hi there

 

Please don't be too concerned. A Bailiff will NOT attend and remove your property and possessions. There legal lights.

 

 

We can help you deal with this problem.

 

Firstly what is the alleged debt for, ie Bank Loan, Credit Card, catalogue etc. If so you should send a CCCA' request.

 

If however you have contacted the company and admitted the debt, your can still sent theCCA Request.

 

If you have never acknowedge this debt to them then send this following letter first:

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the CPUTR 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading's Guidance on debt collectionlink3.gif, which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. AND in not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to Trading Standards and also inform the Office Of Fair Trading of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Should you wish to go down the CCA Route:

 

Send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12+2 days or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Tradinglink3.gif Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc

 

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

(Optional)

You should also note that I will only discuss this matter in writing and should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you or any of your associates.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance. (Optional)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

Print name do not signlink3.gif

 

Make sure you do not sign either of the letter, and send them Recorded Delivery.

 

When 12 + 2 working days are up from the date of receipt the company are in the position of the debt being in dispute and no further action can be taken until and if, the agreement turns up.

 

You should send copies of the letter you have received today with a complaint to:

 

Consumer Direct

 

Finally, if this did ever get to Court and they got their Judgement, the only time the Bailiff gets called in is if you miss any of the payments ordered by the Court.

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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If you want to hit them full on in the face so to speak, you could hit them with the following letter:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

 

This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have been duly noted.

Further to you stressing that county courtlink3.gif proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account,I remind you of Civil Procedurelink3.gif rules protocols. Nevertheless in my response to your letter please be advised of the following.

 

 

I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;

 

 

1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditionslink3.gif that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signaturelink3.gif, is required.

 

2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to

 

1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interestlink3.gif, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditionslink3.gif, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal datalink3.gif and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the foslink3.gif for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;

 

* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencieslink3.gif.

* issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.

  • Haha 1

Every journey begins with a single step :):)

 

Please note: I have no qualifications in this area - my advice is learned from the wonderful members of this Forum. Thanks to you all for your help.

 

If you have found my post helpful please leave a short message by clicking the star to the left of my profile - Thank You

 

The only person entitled to your Personal Finance details is a Judge not a DCA

 

Move all banking activity to another banking group if you have a dispute - your funds can be used to offset debts within the same group.

Be careful with Banking details (card/account numbers) as these can be used to take unauthorised payments.

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You must complain to trading standards and the OFT about that letter.

 

It is misleading and threatening. It states that a judgment WILL be issued against you. This is not necessarily the case - the have to win first.

 

Ditto, they cannot fob the court costs off on you unless they win and are awarded costs. So that's another lie.

 

And they cannot charge interest unless they prove you owe the money, and that they have the right to charge interest.

 

That letter breaks every rule in the book. It is disgusting and designed to intimidate.

 

This kind of intimidation should not go unpunished. Complain long and loud.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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It's about time Phoenix was reduced back into the ashes. :rolleyes:

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

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Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

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hello all and thank you for your advice.

 

I have sent off a complaint about the Phoenix debt collection letter to Consumer Direct (trading standards) with a copy to the OFT.

 

I asked Phoenix for a breakdown of the alleged debt and what I got back was -

 

Debt £xxx.xx

Court fees £0

Bailiff charges £0

Payments received £0

 

Should they provide a proper breakdown of the alleged debt?

 

The amount being claimed is about 10% too high. It is what the original creditor claimed before they revised it as they had made an error. They confirmed the correct amount to me by email but they have passed the original wrong sum to Phoenix.

 

The debt is for an overpayment of wages. I only just found that CAG has an employment forum so should it be moved there and how do to move it?

 

There is a legal matter to discuss because of the decision of the Court of Appeal in the case Commerzbank AG -v- Gareth Price-Jones on 21 November 2003 (Source: www.courtservice.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2092/commerzbank-v-jones.htm ) which provides guidance on the issues of "unjust enrichment" and "change of position" in the context of recovering overpayments.

 

The background is that at the time I was employed by the company I was in a position of financial difficulty with substantial debt and no savings. I took advice from a debt counselling service and as my income/expenditure account showed a big deficit they advised me to offer £1 a week to all my unsecured creditors. My situation has not improved since that time.

 

I believe I have a valid argument that it would be inequitable for the employer to require restitution of the overpayment on the basis of a change of position which I undertook in good faith.

 

I accept that the overpayment was a mistake of fact however:

 

1. The employer led me to believe the money was mine as they wrote to me accepting my resignation and stating that I would be paid up to and including the leaving day.

 

2. The overpayment was wholly the fault of the employer made by their specialised and large wage payment company.

 

3. I subsequently spent the money as by paying it in to my bank account it reduced my overdraft.

 

4. The overpayment was not so large that I could reasonably be expected to have noticed it in the payslip calculations.

 

5. I acted to my disadvantage as a result of the overpayment as the money was spent prior to the employer notifying me of any overpayment.

 

 

I the one hand I accept that I was overpaid and would be prepared to repay the money at a token £1 per month as it is all I can afford. On the other hand, if the court of appeal decision supports my position, and because the employer created the problem by their lack of care, for which they later apologised by letter, I think they should take responsibilty for putting me in a very difficult position.

 

I found this info on CAG:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/employment-problems/111837-query-about-salary-overpayment.html

 

"if it is a mistake in fact, then the employer may be entitled to demand the money back.

May? Why only ‘may’?

 

Even if the overpayment was due to a mistake in fact the employer cannot recover the money if the following three conditions are met - if the employer has lead the employee to believe the money was theirs (one suspects that the provision of a wage slip including the amount would suffice); if the mistake was primarily not the fault of the employee; and if the employee has subsequently spent the money or used the money to change their lifestyle in some way (e.g. bought a car on HP).

 

It is not completely clear cut, however, and, if the sum is large enough and the employer is determined, they may take the matter to court and look for an order demanding that the money is returned. Generally the courts will seek to do what is just in the circumstances. In order to do this the courts will take into consideration the amount of the overpayment, the level of negligence and whether or not the recipient knew or should have known about the overpayment."

 

I am sorry that it a complex issue but if anyone can provide further helpful advice I would be very grateful, both about dealing with Phoenix and about the overpayment.

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I've moved you to the employment forum. If you want moving back just hit the red triangle report.gif at the side of your post. ;)

Anthrax alert at debt collectors caused by box of doughnuts

 

Make sure you do not post anything which identifies you. Although we can remove certain things from the site unless it's done in a timely manner everything you post will appear in Google cache & we do not have any control over that.

 

Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

17 Port & Maritime Regiment RCT

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How long did they take to notice the overpayment? If it was more than a reasonable amount of time - say a month, as that would have been the frequency at which you were paid - then their own actions may make recovery (a) uneconomic and (b) unlikely.

 

Did they supply a closing account of sorts, ie. payslip, P45 etc? Did these have the correct or incorrect amounts shown?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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I was in the employment for less than a month and forced to leave for health reasons. The employer sent me a letter saying I would be paid up to and including date X

 

They sent a payslip and P45 a week later.

 

They sent notification of overpayment 5 weeks after the payslip and P45

 

The Payslip and P45 showed the wrong amounts because the employer had not informed the payroll company of my leaving part way through the month. The employer wrote to tell me that they had informed the payroll company but confirmed later that due to a communication hiccup they had not done so.

 

The overpayment was approximately 30%

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Have they gone through a process of asking you nicely, or has it all been done in an official or nasty way?

 

Have you made an offer of repayment directly to the ex-employer?

 

You say they made two mistakes - the initial one, then another error - before getting to a figure you accepted. Is that correct?

 

They told you of their error five weeks after the payslip and P45 were issued - how long was this after you actually left their employment? And how long after date X, when they said they would pay you up to?

 

At which point did they employ the services of a debt collector?

 

All I'm trying to establish here is whether they have acted reasonably.

 

The common law is this:

 

The money is not yours, and you should give it back. However, if the money was received by you in good faith and cannot easily be returned, a court might rule that it was not reasonable for the employer to demand it back.

 

Given that they had two goes to identify the error correctly, and took 35+ days to contact you about their error, I would suggest that an unacceptably long period has passed since they made the mistake.

 

Further, the employment of a debt collector for what surely must be a relatively small amount of money smacks of nastiness. Note that your ex-employer is fully responsible for the actions of the debt collector in this matter - the actions and threats of Phoenix are effectively those of the ex-employer.

 

Personally, I'm thinking down the lines of a well-crafted letter to your ex-employer offering £1 a week on the understanding that they meet you half way on the amount owed, and apologise for the heavy-handed nature of their collection methods.

 

Alternatively - this is down to you, as only you know how this has been conducted - offer them nothing and complain loudly, and push for financial compensation for the stress and aggravation caused by their (ie. them and Phoenix collectively) wholly unreasonable behaviour (for the reasons set out above).

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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DonkeyB;2917094 Have they gone through a process of asking you nicely, or has it all been done in an official or nasty way?

I suppose both are true. I was communicating regularly with the payroll company until August 2009 although they failed to deal with my communication at times (e.g. see point 5. below). They wrote "I would like to stress that we have a joint responsibility (with the employer) to our payees and are committed to delivering a high quality service. I regret that this did not happen in your case" They lastly emailed requesting my repayment intentions. I did not reply as other matters became more important to me to have to deal with.

The next I heard was March 2010 when the DCA - Phoenix wrote demanding the original erroneous amount which did not take account of the holiday pay due to me and is therefore incorrect.

Have you made an offer of repayment directly to the ex-employer? No

 

You say they made two mistakes - the initial one, then another error - before getting to a figure you accepted. Is that correct?

No, there were further errors -

1. They informed me that they had told the payroll company of my leaving date when they hadn't. They later wrote "Unfortunately a process error ocurred and whilst the standard acknowledgement letter was sent to you, the next stage of the process - i.e. advising (the payroll company) did not take place." They did not send it until after the payslip and P45 had been processed.

 

2. The payslip and P45 were therefore wrong because they paid me for the whole month.

 

3. The initial demand to repay the overpaymnt was wrong, overstated by approx 10% as they had not accounted for holiday pay.

 

4. The payroll authorisation form sent from the employer to the payroll company failed to advise that holiday pay was due. they later wrote "The payroll authorisation form advising (the payroll company) of your leaving date should include details of any holiday pay due. The form did not do so and therefore it was not processed."

 

5. My initial queries were logged by the payroll company but they did not reply for 2 months when they sent a letter "I am unsure whether your query has been answered, if not I apologise that no-one got back to you and would be grateful if you would contact us to discuss the matter further. Please be advised that this matter is viewed very seriously and we are bound by Managing Public Money Guidelines to recover all monies overpaid ;regardless as to how they occured."

They told you of their error five weeks after the payslip and P45 were issued - how long was this after you actually left their employment?

7 weeks after I left the employment

And how long after date X, when they said they would pay you up to? 7 weeks

 

At which point did they employ the services of a debt collector? March 2010, 6 months after the previous communication.

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Phoenix continue to claim an amount which is incorrect and that is confirmed by the payroll company who passed the amount to them. Are there any suggestions how I should reply to them now, bearing in mind that they threaten court proceedings in less than a week.

 

In addition to my complaint to TS and the OFT about the format of the Phoenix letter, should I make a formal complaint to Phoenix too about both the format and the wrong amount?

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Phoenix are something of an irrelevancy in that they cannot take you to court, only the creditor can. So stick to dealing with the creditor.

 

I think a well crafted letter to the "employer" is the best route, stating the facts of the case and averring that their mistakes meant the money was accepted in good faith, and that their string of errors and those of its agents, and the extended time scales to begin recovery, make in unfair on you and also unjust.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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ok thanks. I'll do some more research and put a letter together incorporating the relevant points. I should mention that the amount of overpayment was under £280.

 

I've reviewed the paperwork, the payroll company told me there was an overpayment 7 weeks after I left the employment. The amount they claimed was too high because it didn't allow me any holiday pay. I alerted them to this but they continued to chase for the wrong amount and didn't calculate the correct figure for a further 10 weeks. The debt collectors are demanding the original wrong sum.

 

In the meantime can I get some suggestions on how exactly the debt collector's letter breaks the OFT guidelines -

 

"Seven days from the date of this letter, we intend to apply for a summons to be issued against you for non-payment of £xxx.xx

 

YOU SHOULD BE ADVISED THAT:

 

1) DUE TO COURT COSTS AND interestlink3.gif, YOUR DEBT WILL INCREASE ON A DAILY BASIS

 

2) A county courtlink3.gif JUDGEMENT (checked by stores for credit worthiness) WILL BE ISSUED

 

3) IF THE JUDGEMENT IS EXECUTED, BAILIFF WILL ATTEND YOUR PROPERTY AND REMOVE YOUR POSSESSIONS.

 

THIS ACTION CAN BE AVOIDED IF FULL PAYMENT OF £xxx.xx IS MADE TO OUR OFFICE BY RETURN"

Edited by canley
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You must complain to trading standards and the OFT about that letter.

 

It is misleading and threatening. It states that a judgment WILL be issued against you. This is not necessarily the case - the have to win first.

 

Ditto, they cannot fob the court costs off on you unless they win and are awarded costs. So that's another lie.

 

And they cannot charge interest unless they prove you owe the money, and that they have the right to charge interest.

 

That letter breaks every rule in the book. It is disgusting and designed to intimidate.

 

This kind of intimidation should not go unpunished. Complain long and loud.

I used the OFT complaints form found on CAG to complain about Phoenix Commercial Collections letter. They replied -

I am very sorry to hear about the difficulties you have been experiencing however, the OFT has no authority to become involved in individual disputes between consumers and traders so we cannot advise you directly in this matter.

 

I enclose a list of organisations which can offer you help and advice. For specialist, face-to-face assistance, or intervention, you may wish to seek legal advice either through a local Citizens' Advice Bureau or directly from a legal adviser. The Financial Ombudsman Service can help with most complaints about consumer credit products and services if the consumer has failed to satisfactorily resolve the matter directly with the consumer credit licensee itself.

 

I can confirm that the business you mention holds a consumer credit licence. Under the Consumer Credit Act, holders of consumer credit licences must be fit and competent to do so and the OFT has a duty to monitor the fitness and conduct of all traders who hold such a licence.

 

The OFT has issued guidance to consumer credit licence holders engaged in the debt collection industry. The guidance is intended to ensure that debt collectors treat individuals fairly. Non-compliance with this guidance will call into question the fitness of licence holders and applicants. You can view our guidance at: www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/cca/debt-collection

 

We have therefore noted the details of your complaint, and we will consider this alongside any other complaints we have received with a view to any consumer credit licensing or other action we may decide to take. If we do take any action against this trader, it is likely that we would need to disclose your identity to this trader along with details of your complaint. Unfortunately, we cannot disclose any details about any action we may take, due to legal restrictions on the OFT relating to disclosure of information.

 

Thank you again for writing to us and bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Yours sincerely

OFT

 

Help and advice

 

You can contact the following non-profit making organisations for free, confidential and impartial advice.

 

National Debtline

If you live in England, Wales or Scotland phone 0808 808 4000 or visit

www.nationaldebtline.co.uk for debt advice and information

 

Consumer Credit Counselling Service

For debt advice throughout the UK – including Northern Ireland – phone 0800 138 1111 or visit www.cccs.co.uk

 

Citizens Advice

For advice and information on debt and other topics, visit your nearest Citizens

Advice Bureau – check the phone book for the address

 

Consumer Direct

If you live in England, Wales or Scotland phone 08454 04 05 06 or visit

www.consumerdirect.gov.uk for general consumer advice and information.

 

Consumer Direct’s website includes information about credit and hire

agreements and a fuller list of independent advice agencies.

 

ConsumerLine

If you live in Northern Ireland phone 0845 600 62 62 or visit www.consumerline.org for general consumer advice

 

Community Legal Advice

For free advice phone 0845 345 4 345 if you qualify for legal aid or visit

www.communitylegaladvice.org.uk

 

Financial Ombudsman Service

If you have a complaint that you can’t resolve with your lender, the Financial

Ombudsman Service may be able to help – phone 0845 080 1800 or visit

www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

South Quay Plaza, 183 Marsh Wall, London, E14 9SR

 

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Standard stuff. But when enough people complain, the bad marks against their name begin to have an effect.

 

However, when you complain to trading standards (consumer direct) they will probably tell you to contact the OFT... can't win!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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I am waiting for a reply from Trading Standards (Consumer Direct). If they refer me to the OFT as you say they are likely to do that would be inappropriate advice as "the OFT has no authority to become involved in individual disputes between consumers and traders so we cannot advise you directly in this matter."

 

The CCA's Consumer Credit License is issued by the OFT but it seems unlikely to take action unless it receives a number of complaints. "We have therefore noted the details of your complaint, and we will consider this alongside any other complaints we have received with a view to any consumer credit licensing or other action we may decide to take."

 

IMO where the holder of the OFT license contravenes the OFT's guidelines as clearly as Phoenix has done the OFT should be taking action, even in the case of a single complaint. I cannot think of a reason why the OFT would not do so, otherwise it makes a nonsense of the reasons for the guidelines.

Edited by canley
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Hi there. I hope this goes your way.

 

I don't know if it's relevant and I'm sorry if it isn't, but when we complained about a service company to Trading Standards, they referred the contract to the OFT, who found it to be unfair and instructed the company to change it. In our case, theOFT didn't get involved in the dispute and I don't recall that Trading Standards did either, but we had the satisfaction of knowing that future clients wouldn't go through what we did.

 

That may not help you though :(. HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I hope the Consumer Direct complaint will result in something being done.

 

I made a formal complaint to Phoenix that their letter threatening court proceedings contravened OFT guidelines. They didn't acknowledge my complaint so I contacted them again. They informed me that all they do is collect debts passed on to them by their clients therefore if I think the amount is wrong or if I have a complaint I should contact their client, not them.

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I hope the Consumer Direct complaint will result in something being done.

 

I made a formal complaint to Phoenix that their letter threatening court proceedings contravened OFT guidelines. They didn't acknowledge my complaint so I contacted them again. They informed me that all they do is collect debts passed on to them by their clients therefore if I think the amount is wrong or if I have a complaint I should contact their client, not them.

 

Did they put that in writing? That is complete bow-locks. Both they and their client are responsible for their actions. They are obliged to deal with complaints - demand a copy of their complaints procedure. If they don't have one, it's another OFT requirement they have, er, forgotten.

 

Idiots.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Donkey is quite right.

 

Another point to note is that Phoenix have no cause of action (only the creditor does), so cannot bring proceedings - threatening to take legal action that cannot be brought is contrary to CPUTR. This should be mentioned to Trading Standards, and in your complaint to Phoenix.

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Did they put that in writing? That is complete bow-locks. Both they and their client are responsible for their actions. They are obliged to deal with complaints - demand a copy of their complaints procedure. If they don't have one, it's another OFT requirement they have, er, forgotten. Idiots.

 

No it was on the phone, but recorded.

Funny, but when I called back later and asked for the person I'd spoken to earlier I was told no one with that name worked there.

 

I also wrote to ask them for a breakdown of the amount demanded as I know it is too high. Three times they've just sent a fresh demand saying debt £xxx.xx

 

I've now sent a letter repeating the complaint and again requested they enclose their complaint procedure. I gave a deadline failing which I will complain to Trading Standards and the OFT (again).

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Donkey is quite right.

 

Another point to note is that Phoenix have no cause of action (only the creditor does), so cannot bring proceedings - threatening to take legal action that cannot be brought is contrary to CPUTR. This should be mentioned to Trading Standards, and in your complaint to Phoenix.

 

thank you, I'll add that to my complaint to TS and the OFT

I haven't given Phoenix any details of how their letter contravenes the OFT guidelines.

I didn't think it would be necessary as being the holders of a Credit License from the OFT I thought they would probably be able to figure it out for themselves.

Edited by canley
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I didn't think it would be necessary as being the holders of a Credit License from the OFT I thought they would probably be able to figure it out for themselves.

 

If you believe that, you probably also believe that 57 seats should make you deputy PM!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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