Jump to content

  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Then say that then...   and raise an irresponsible lending claim against them if you think its true, but i seriously doubt any lender even one as bad as kenny's would not have carried out extensive checks.   Now if they did then your alternative is to get an sar running and get reclaiming all their unlawful fees.   Plenty of threads here on kenny's and reclaiming.   Dx    
    • What is the name of the company you are dealing with? Why haven't you told us? If the other thread you have been looking at is the thread relating to Ideal Windows then you will see that we have been advising that the customers should give notice. It sounds very similar to your problem. You should give notice. You must inform them that time is of the essence and that given all of the delays you can only now give them seven days to agree to complete the installation job within 14 days (including the seven days). I'm afraid that courts won't normally accept a peremptory cancellation – even if the delays have been excessive. I'm afraid that by communicating with them and broadly by accepting the delays to a certain extent, you have been complicit in agreeing the delay. So now you have to take control and bring it to an end to but you have to do this with notice. I suggested that the work should be completed within 14 days – but how long should the installation take? The reason for giving them notice is that even though a date may have been fixed for completion, generally speaking reasonable delays are considered to be acceptable – and the courts are well aware that the installer may have incurred costs and should be given a reasonable time to complete the contract. Once you give notice that the contract will be treated as terminated because the delays are becoming not acceptable – then you generally speaking satisfy the requirements of the court that you have treated the installer fairly.
    • HSBC’s results show estimated credit losses across its UK bank were just $160m in Q3, reflecting a huge drop from $1.5bn in Q2 View the full article
    • The only thing Is I cant get the stuff they want by then. They said they might stop my childcare which I rely on. Thats whats worrying me x That and I hate talking on the phone I really struggle with it.
  • Our picks

    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies
    • Oven repair. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427690-oven-repair/&do=findComment&comment=5073391
      • 49 replies
    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
      • 3 replies
    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
        • Thanks
        • Like

HP Mum v Nat West & Shoosmiths - HELP


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 411 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi

 

I have found myself in a similar position got a charging order in Feb this year from the same duo. I found the whole experience horrendous as the judge very very biased to the other side. I got stung for the default balance, even though I had paid some of it of with monthly payments and ppi interest. Lost my fight for the cause them

 

Have a complaint going through now telford regarding ppi that they have failed to repay me back and knowing this still took me to court. Only been going on for five years now The natwest bank are disgusting and get away with everything

If any of my posts are helpful, please feel free to click my scales. All information is given as my opinion only, based on my own personal experiences. I have no legal training, but have educated myself in aspects of consumer legislation. My motto "NEVER GIVE IN, NEVER SURRENDER", THERE IS A WAR ON YOU KNOW

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
  • Replies 225
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Hi HP

 

Read your post on the other thread, had a brief read of your woes on here.... hopefully this post will bump yours to anyone still taking an interest.

 

One thing which does spring to mind; Do Shoosmiths and the business present you with reconciling statements for credits or do the monies paid not show on the data which Ratsnest send you?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mike

 

I get NO statements from Shoosmiths.

The first contact I have had from them in years is simply cos I was late with a nominal monthly payment.

 

The statements I get from NW are interest statement charges only. There is NO reference to any payment made to Shoosmiths.

 

There seems to be NO connection between what I pay Shoosmiths and NW.

 

It almost seems as if NW is unaware of the CCJ and payments to Shoosmiths.

Which can't be right.

 

The CCJ was 5 years ago.

Since then I have had no balance statement from NW. Just Interest Charges statement, apx £5-600/quarter.

 

What do you think I should do ?

Link to post
Share on other sites

NW returned the PO to me. I just found their letter :-(

I should have made it out to them but had left it blank. I guess I should go back to postoffice and get them to change it.

 

However NW did send a letter refusing to give data on a Ltd Co to me - under Data Protection Act 98. Even though they know it was just me and I am the one personally guaranteeing an O/D. And the only person with a ccj regarding the Co, the only person receiving NW statements.

They asked me to be specific and list the info I require and provide it to the team that deals with the day to day running of my biz acc. They then listed this "team" address as Telford !!

They advise they enclose personal details under references which mean nothing to me - long digits.

 

I need to sort through all my papers.

I know I took an initial unsecured O/D 15yrs ago and then I increased it at a later date. NW seem to have presented both Personal Agreements as separate entities, ie adding them together. The 2nd one should have erased the 1st one. I mean if a customer takes an O/D for £1k and then later asks to increase it to £3k the sum total of the O/D should be £3k - not £1k+£3k. I am not sure what NW have done. My O/D limit was X, yet 4 years later NW advises the Acc balance was almost double !! Many more years have passed....

 

NW have noted a "Guarantee Call Up, served my £X liimit"

NW remark "Unsecured Deal Made". Ie token monthly payments

4 years later NW show a hugely inflated balance

NW remark that Company is Ltd Co and they can only supply personal info

 

The date of Transfer to CMS was in 04. 9 years ago !

 

I will trawl notes tomorrow and see if I can make head and tail of everything

 

Thank You for replying. Xx

 

Shoosmiths attributed my £10 PO to my debt ! Shoosmiths said NW had advised them they had complied as far as necessary with my SAR to them. They advised if I wanted copies of Docs they hold I should clearly identify the docs I am looking for.

I don't know what Docs I would need to look for !!! Is there something specific I should be asking them to provide ?

 

It would be good to have clarity on this situation.

I mean is it really possible for a Bank to set a limit of borrowing, to know - subsequent to business collapse - that it is impossible for the customer to repay that amount, yet to add punitive charges that double, triple, quadruple the original borrowing limit ?? I thought a limit meant Limit. I need to resolve this.

Thanks for your support PaulW. Be good to hear from experienced NW battlers and to find out how to navigate this issue.

 

NW split the guarantees. I have found the paperwork trail.

Nw sent 2 Formal Demands on same date - one letter referring to the 1st guarantee taken out, but interesting stating my guarantee liability was 60% less. The 2nd letter referred to the year I had increased my O/D guarantee and stated the full liability.

 

So NW passed the 1st Formal Demand with the lower amount on to Shoosmiths and got a ccj on this amount.

The 2nd Formal Demand with the full guarantee amount is where???? NW have not chased this other amount.

 

When I went to Court the Jusdge ordered Shoosmiths to confirm in writing of all or any debt whether under their Claim # xxxx or otherwise within 14 days.

Shoosmiths replied - proceedings under Claim # xxxx are pursuant to the personal guarantee I supplied to NW in relation to the liabilities of my Ltd Co. The proceedings only relate to my personal liability under the guarantee and do not include any liability of the Ltd Co or other personal liabilities with NW. For the avoidance of doubt the only Acc being pursued under Claim # Xxxx is...". And Shoosmiths then list the new sort code and Acc # at Telford and the balance being the much lower balance.

However, critically, Shoos then say "that confusion has arisen due to me receiving statements from NW relating to sort code xx and Acc # xx. (Which was my true local branch code and account). These statements are for the biz Curr Acc of the Ltd Co. The statements are sent to me as a signatory of the acc on a monthly basis (not true it's quarterly) to ensure NW is compliant with the Consumer Credit Act. We are not instructed to act in relation to this Acc and would refer any queries regarding the same back to the bank"

 

So what is NW's & Shoos game ?

The account # they pursued and got a ccj on was never my Acc.

It was for a smaller amount.

The annual statement from NW in 2008 listed only the new Acc # but with a huge balance.

Yet I still receive bank statements with 1/4ly charges and service charges with old correct Acc #

 

I am really confused !!!

 

does anyone know how to delete some messages from my inbox, without deleting them all !!

 

So..

After a marathon late night reading documents I am beginning to see what NW and Shoos have done.

Now I am just not sure what I write to them to get them to be transparent with what they have done..

 

Help ?? Anyone ??

Link to post
Share on other sites
does anyone know how to delete some messages from my inbox, without deleting them all !!

Go to your inbox select the message(s) you want to delete by clicking on the right hand button next to the message. Then click on the Selected Items button, which will open a ladder with choices of action, click on delete then click on proceed. Good Luck

Regards

t

Edited by tedney
typo
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank You !!

 

Mike - they didn't split the guarantees visibly. I mean, they did in terms of writing to me a Formal Demand. But in terms of the statement they sent in 2008, the amount was the grand total. There was nothing to show that the account had been split at all.

 

I was up super late reading through my files last night.

I will dig out the statements and try to throw more light on what exactly NW did and continues to do.

And be back on here when done.

Thanks x

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am aware that it duplicates accounts, as are its counsel.

 

If you pay the judgment direct to a shoos account ask it for a statement. There is however no requirement for it to comply.

 

What was the date of demand on the balance held at the branch and do any of your payments to shoos in the interim appear to have set off that balance? Any interaction between judgment and branch account?

 

If you can show evidence of a seperate demand and identify separate transaction data/effect on balances I'd be inclined to wait out the SB on the business/profit centre account.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So - the last time they communicated with me about the large sum of £s, supposedly with a PG, was many years ago....

NW solicitors kind of confirmed that ccj amount was the only amount with a PG that they were authorised to act on. I know there was only one account. Shoos probably did know that NW had split the guarantees, but seemed to not know. So, what I think you are saying is - to not say anything until 6 years is up ?? Then argue that the only amount payable and covered by a PG is the ccj amount ? Is that what you imply here ?

 

Let me carry on going through paperwork and checking facts.

 

I have noticed that one of the PG copies NW sent me has been "altered". A cut and paste job, I suspect. I know because I have the original and it differ from what they have sent me !!!

 

I am just wondering if I should go into the original local branch and ask for some clarity on why I am getting statements still for an account that was closed 10 years ago ?

 

The interest statements are addressed from the local branch, use the correct Ltd Co name, sort code and account details, and are charging me interest £s quarterly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like the account was not closed, yes a visit to the branch is a good idea.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't go rushing to tell the branch anything yet. NW have a very antiquated profit centre mentality and it would fall to the individual retail manager to write the account off... not going to happen.

 

I'd spend some time trawling through your paperwork so you can ensure that all evidence points toward 2 separate facilities. I appreciate there was only one account but the bank appear to have attempted to benefit from splitting the 2 guarantee values hence 1 balance in judgment and 1 live account at branch.

 

For example a/c 12345 in judgment for 5k

Formal demand for a/c 12345 at Oct 2004

No post judgment interest notices relating to a/c 12345 or reconciling with its advertised rates or judgment sum

 

Branch a/c 54321 running balance at 20k

Formal demand at Dec 2004

Continuing interest notices at advertised rates which reconcile with that balance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There can certainly be no harm in finding out about an account that is supposedly closed especially if interest is being charged on it.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd tread carefully, the underlying pg on judgment no longer has effect. CCA notices on PJI do, if the bank did not separate the pg from its branch facility/balance and no other statements on judgment quantum are being served it may attempt to argue that the 2 reconcile with an interest encumbered judgment.

 

Hence my reasoning that the op would be best served in the short term by identifying each as separate facilities in relation to each pg.

 

RBS/NatWest retain data and transactions on facilities under judgment at both branch and Brum (duplication on 2 o/s)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...

Another year later...

 

 

Brief resume:

NW took accounts and overdrafts and transferred them to a "Managed Loan" account in CMS Telford in 2004 - without my authority or signature.

NW subsequently created 2 Formal Demands:

 

 

1st Formal Demand - for a small amount, against which I got a CCJ and, for 6 years, have been paying Shoosmith a monthly amount.

NO record of the CCJ, NW &/or Shoosmith on my CRA file.

I assume cos I am paying the nominated monthly payment & 6 years passed so dropped of CRA??

 

 

2nd Formal Demand - Was sent 1/4ly statements and service charges. Interest added. Balance became huge - more than 30k. BUT NW have never chased this amount. They have also this year stopped sending statements. NO mention of any NW defaulted amount on my CRA.

 

 

Given that the date of transfer for this "Managed Loan" was 10 years ago and that NW has never chased me for the 2nd Formal Demand - is there any chance that it just does not exist anymore? That the unsecured amount, transferred to a "Loan" without my authority, has become unenforceable and SB ???

 

 

Would be good to have some other opinion / clarity on this situation....

Link to post
Share on other sites

1st Formal Demand - for a small amount, against which I got a CCJ and, for 6 years, have been paying Shoosmith a monthly amount.

NO record of the CCJ, NW &/or Shoosmith on my CRA file.

I assume cos I am paying the nominated monthly payment & 6 years passed so dropped of CRA??

 

2nd Formal Demand - Was sent 1/4ly statements and service charges. Interest added. Balance became huge - more than 30k. BUT NW have never chased this amount. They have also this year stopped sending statements. NO mention of any NW defaulted amount on my CRA.

 

AFAIK

 

1st Formal Demand - Yes, after 6 years CCJ drops off CRA. Payments for Nastywest/Shoosmith also "drop off" after 6 years, at least that what happened to me!

 

2nd Formal Demand - I think I am right in saying that to comply with CCA bank must supply statements for a loan account, even if defaulted, otherewise they cannot enforce. Hopefully someone more knowledge than me can confirm and/or contradict!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks

 

To be clear - I never had a "Loan Account" NW created it without my permission. They just swapped an overdraft into what is called a Managed Loan.

They then sent 1/4ly statements, which proved they had done the swap - an o/d current account would have had monthly statements.

 

They have not sent these 1/4ly statements at all this year. I was never defaulted on the 2nd amount (the larger unsecured o/d amount) only the smaller amount against which NW/Shoosmith got the ccj.

I missed one token payment by a few days earlier this year and Shoosmith wrote to me within days. So even after 6 years, I am not convinced Shoosmith are just going to "drop off"... I kind of assumed I just had to keep paying the token monthly payments or else they may try and get another charging order...

Am I wrong?

 

TBH - I would be absolutely delighted if the larger amount of this "Managed Loan" had disappeared, never to be enforced - on the basis that NW knows it is not enforceable (cos crooked set up).

But I am nervous that it will reappear as some hugely inflated and impossible to pay figure....

Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks

 

1. an o/d current account would have had monthly statements.

 

2. They have not sent these 1/4ly statements at all this year. I was never defaulted on the 2nd amount (the larger unsecured o/d amount) only the smaller amount against which NW/Shoosmith got the ccj.

So even after 6 years, I am not convinced Shoosmith are just going to "drop off"... I kind of assumed I just had to keep paying the token monthly payments or else they may try and get another charging order...

Am I wrong?

 

 

1. Not necessarily, I had an overdraft account without monthly (or any) statements! See here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?427720-final-repayment-of-a-business-overdraft See post number 9 especially.

 

2. Is the Nastywest/Shoosmith account a CCJ with a charging order? Unfortunately the account will not "drop off" from having to pay, but will drop off after 6 years from being reported to CRA's.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The ccj was not with a charging order.

Shoosmith tried and failed in court.

Fortunately.

 

So - if I have to keep paying the token payments - do you think at some point when in a position to do so, that I could make a f&f offer?

Link to post
Share on other sites
The ccj was not with a charging order.

Shoosmith tried and failed in court.

Fortunately.

 

So - if I have to keep paying the token payments - do you think at some point when in a position to do so, that I could make a f&f offer?

 

That could be a plan. It would seem that Shoosmith have a "watch" on your account, if as you say just missed a payment for a few days. Not sure what offer they might accept. I was paying off account, using my "last known balance" and when that was reached I wrote and ask for confirmation that account was clear and closed. After some prevarication, Nastwest agreed and cleared and closed account. Not sure what f&f offer would be acceptable to them though, I have never gone that route (yet!)

Link to post
Share on other sites
That could be a plan. It would seem that Shoosmith have a "watch" on your account, if as you say just missed a payment for a few days. Not sure what offer they might accept. I was paying off account, using my "last known balance" and when that was reached I wrote and ask for confirmation that account was clear and closed. After some prevarication, Nastwest agreed and cleared and closed account. Not sure what f&f offer would be acceptable to them though, I have never gone that route (yet!)

 

Have you sent a cca request off for the "managed" loan?

The loan is unenforceable - you've never signed an agreement. Which department transposed your account?

PW

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hiya

I sent off requests years ago but because the account was originally a Ltd Co they would not divulge info to me personally. Even though it was just me in the Ltd Co. It was kind of a catch 22 situation.

In the end i just mentally walked away; gave up trying to get to the bottom of what Nasty had done.

Local branch transferred the accounts to CMS Telford in 2004...

 

I only got a mental nudge yesterday cos DX merged several threads I had followed...

And then checked CRA - and saw this "Managed Loan" is not listed, nor the ccj smaller account.

Got curious as to whether Nasty has thrown my "Managed Loan" out cos unenforceable or if they are sitting on it to maybe get another ccj at some point in the future...?

 

I will have to go through all my files to ascertain exactly what happened and when

 

To jog your memory the whole SAR debacle was on page 2 & 3 on this thread...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...