Nat West business OD & Shoosmiths - HELP

[paulwlton]

I'd send off a cca and sar to NW.

[HP Mum]

What is a suspense account?

[AndyOrch]

In general accountancy terms a suspense account is an account in the general ledger that temporarily stores any transactions for which there is uncertainty about the account in which they should be recorded.

[HP Mum]

is it possible for a bank to set up a suspense account without advising client?

And to then litigate against this suspense account?

 

OK...

So S have dodged the cca and returned £1 po. They "suggest" their previous letter was their final response - despite not answering my questions on how the account was set up. They state they "are unable to respond to my cca request". They don't give reasons.

 

 

However, they have elaborated a bit by saying that "referring to the Ltd Co account I signed a personal guarantee, which meant I was personally liable for the sums outstanding under the guarantee. They were instructed to act in relation to the guarantee only; any claim is against the personal liability and not that of the Ltd Co"

"...the [new] account # is a suspense account used by nw to collect monies owed under the personal guarantee. Payments made under the guarantee go to this account and reduce sum outstanding".

They also state "no interest or charges accruing" and have indeed given a balance that's less than the original demand, corresponding with my nominal payments over the years.

 

 

So, my questions remain:

- can a bank set up a new "suspense" account without my signature?

ie would sending the cca and sar to nw be worth the exercise if they are legally allowed to set up a "suspense" account?

Or is calling it "suspense" just a tactic to distract me from potential "illegally" set up account? And yes I should definitely now send in the cca/sar to nw.

 

 

- can nw still collect on the outstanding (20k) balance of the Ltd Co?

They have not written asking for it to be cleared or attempted litigation on the Ltd Co balance in more than 8y.

This would suggest to me that the Ltd Co part (the bulk of the debt) is sb. yes/no?

The fact nw only litigated on part of the total debt, which they said was the part covered by a guarantee, leads me to think that the bulk of the debt could not be litigated - however they did continue to send interest accruing statements of 2k+/pa...

[HP Mum]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the above correspondence?

Should I just ignore their labelling the new account as a "suspense account" and simply send the sar / cca to NW ?

I mean the real question now is - are they entitled to split a debt and put some of the debt in a suspense account?

[tedney]

Not sure about about the splitting of debt, perhaps someone with more knowledge than me can answer.

 

Definately send SAR to Nasty, which should identify exactly what they are doing with the accounts.

 

If there is more than one account involved, perhaps a CCA for each account (?) would be required?

 

Hopefully again a more knowledgeable Cagger can help here. t

[friend_in_need]

debbbbsy

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but right at the start of a very similar situation with shoosmiths and RBS, could really do with some guidance.

 

Came to site once before, and couldnt get advice, it ended up with sending out the wrong SAR to the wrong people, need to act fast.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

debbbbsy

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but right at the start of a very similar situation with shoosmiths and RBS, could really do with some guidance.

 

Came to site once before, and couldnt get advice, it ended up with sending out the wrong SAR to the wrong people, need to act fast.

 

Thanks

 

 

best start a new thread

 

 

of your own

[BankFodder]

Please update

[friend_in_need]

Hi All, 

 

So to update, he was two weeks away from a court hearing for bankruptcy, he continuously tried to settle the debt with shoesmiths as the court date drew closer and closer, They kept refusing the offers he was making at levels he could afford to pay as a lump sum payment. In the end, two day from the hearing he asked what they would accept. The figure was 18 thousand. 

I made him ask that it was in full and final settlement and that they would no longer report on his credit file so that it didn’t effect his business going forward.

 

They agreed to that and he payed them 18 thousand. Which he will be paying back for many years to come. 

 

Sorry i I don’t have better news. 

[HP Mum]

To update my own thread:

 

I have been paying a nominal 20 every month to the sols - for years. 

Not really sure why i kept paying all these years.

 

But having had issues with the sols at the beginning

- where I missed a payment, they got an interim charging order

I had to go to court twice - I just kept paying.

 

Fast forward to now:

I am currently not a property owner. 

I stopped paying the sols a couple months ago. 

 

 I have just got letter entitled NW v HPMum

the original Claim Number (of 12+ years ago)

saying I am in arrears of the agreed repayment arrangement and they will cancel it if I don't catch up my payments...

 

I am not sure what to now do?

 

Should I write and say I can't pay and no longer have an asset?

 

Should I also ask them what the outstanding balance is? 

 (bearing in mind that the original debt owed to NW was much larger. 

 

NW had done one of those consolidated personal debts into a managed loan

- without my knowledge or signature) 

 

 I am sure that after all this time the other debt (not covered by the payment to the sols) must be sb?

 

[HP Mum]

 

 

I need to get on top of this.  They have written again.

 

I haven't paid the last few months and they now say they will cancel the payment plan if I don't pay imminently,

 

Should I write and ask what the balance outstanding is? 

And that I can no longer pay even the nominal amount?

 

Will they re-open the Claim (from 12y ago)?

 

If i have no asset what could/ would they next do?

 

[dx100uk]

send a new sar.

 

I think it would be to your advantage if they did try and enforce a 12yrs old CCJ...

 

the truth be owt...that being you've been cash cowed for years...

 

[HP Mum]

 

thanks dx. 

You are correct.

 

I have asked for all info on the account + the current alleged balance.

I would really like to put this account to bed once and for all. 

 

This account was never authorised/ set up by me

- it was just sneaky side steps by nasty to create a new loan account which could then be classed as a debt asset on their books, rather than an overdraft loss. 

 

They never answered my questions on how it was set up. 

Nasty refused to disclose info because the original account was a Ltd Co - despite me being the only worker and sole signatory... 

 

All this kicked off like 15y ago!!

Lets see where this request for info gets me...???

 

[dx100uk]

well I wouldn't be that bold to say I was 100% correct......

 

but lets see what they actually have...

unravel the story from their side

and see what they've got to back up whatever 'story' they have portrayed with their letters etc till today.

 

then check that against what they have done to date.

I will suspect by some magic they'll be no data pre xyz date as they know damn well they've messed up before then and will want to hide it...

 

that should place you in the position of..well you cant actually prove I owe this then...bye!!

 

 

 

 

[HP Mum]

Apparently they have asked nasty for a copy of the signed guarantee.   But that is not what I asked for. 

 

There was a signed guarantee for the original account - not for the managed loan account because I never authorised this account set up.   

 

I asked for them to provide all details regarding the loan account - ie copy of the agreement, date established, signatures etc... because I know they wont be able to provide them.

I guess I just reply reiterating my request??

 

I also refer to the posts above #201, #202 and #203

 

i need to get to the bottom of the suspense account

[dx100uk]

well until they cough up 

this aint going no where fast

sit on your hands

next move is not yours..

[HP Mum]

the problem seems to be that they are not budging on showing transparency on the account on which they claimed.

 

They purport that this was a legitimate account set up by nasty???

They made a claim against this account and I have ever since been making payments.

 

They are waving me away saying that the account is valid because it is a 'suspense account' - which nasty were and are entitled to have set up.   Were they? 

Are they?

Every time I have asked they cloud my vision.   

 

Specifically read post #203 above with what they did 3y ago. 

They are doing the same again now. 

 

They say I signed a personal guarantee and that would cover any amount - even in this suspense account. 

 

They also continue to withhold details because it was a limited company. So on one hand they are holding me personally responsible for alleged debts yet refuse to disclose info on the account set up....

3y ago they refused to respond to cca request.

3y ago they said the balance was apx 4k?

 

What to do?

I haven't yet advised them my circumstances have changed

 

I just scrolled through all old info.

 

Sols, "are only instructed to act in relation to the personal guarantee/ any claim is against my personal liability and not that of the company / I am personally liable for the sums outstanding under the guarantee."

"the suspense account is used by [bank] to collect money owed under the guarantee".

"they were not instructed to act on the Ltd Co bank account".

 

Sorry to repeat myself here - But every time I ask about this 'suspense' account all bank and sols write is that they will send me a copy of the guarantee.   

They have never responded to SAR re the suspense account.  I re-sent SAR 3y ago & still nothing.

 

The bank set up this separate account - the 'suspense' account - with a different sort code and number.   

 

The crux of it is - was bank legally able to set up such a 'suspense' account with new sort code & # - without my knowledge or signature?   

 

If not legally set up - and they got a ccj 10+ years ago - is this why they never give me the account set up details?

 

If they never provide the details via SAR

- How can I now demand the set up details of this 'suspense' account?

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

Let them go back to court and then force them to produce everything

they wont.

[HP Mum]

So - I continue to not pay any more?  Until they respond with the info I have asked for?

[dx100uk]

as above..........

 

I think it would be to your advantage if they did try and enforce a 12yrs old CCJ...

 

then truth be owt in front of a judge...that being you've been cash cowed for years...

 

the next move is not yours.

 

 

[HP Mum]

ok thanks.   Guess I wait and see what comes through the door?

[HP Mum]

I have received an update - they have "concluded the circumstances of my complaint".

I had asked for specific info concerning the account  on which they got a ccj - which has a sort and account number which I never authorised nor signed.     They call this account a "suspense account".

 

They have again sent me a copy of the Personal Guarantee I signed 20 years ago.  This was a personal guarantee for my then (now closed) limited company.  They got the ccj in 08.

A clause in the Guarantee quotes:

"Any moneys received by the Bank in connection with this Guarantee may be placed to the credit of a suspense account and such receipt shall not affect the right of the bank to claim or prove against the Debtor (or any other person liable) for the entire amount of the liabilities of the Debtor.   Such moneys or any part thereof may at the bank's option be applied in or towards discharge of such liabilities of the Debtor as the Bank may in its absolute discretion determine".

 

They reiterate that the new account number is a suspense account - used to collect moneys owed under the Guarantee.  Any payments made under the Guarantee go to this new account and reduce the sums outstanding.

They infer I can not argue.

I need to go through all my records - but they were charging me large interest and sent me quarterly statements.  The account was held at CMS Telford (not my local branch).  I had previously had a normal current account (for the Ltd Co) and monthly statements.   Is this important?  I pay no interest or other charges now.

 

They got the ccj via Northampton County Court.   i was green and hadn't heard of this site then. Apparently I admitted liability for the full debt amount in the court paperwork.  They originally write to me and gave me 1 week to respond and prevent action.   They provide a date when they sent a legal letter.   16 days from that date (of posting) they started legal proceedings.  Within 6 weeks of the posting date they had a ccj.

 

I had paid £/monthly ever since.  Until this year.  There is under £4k still  owed as per the ccj.

Now I currently have no assets.

 

So - Can I argue about this suspense account?  Do I need to delve a bit deeper and question the type of account it was because of the interest and quarterly statements that they used to send. ie that it wasn't really a suspense account if they were charging interest as if it was a "managed loan" account???

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by HP Mum

[paulwlton]

Could you post statements etc? 

[HP Mum]

I dug out the statements at the w/e.

I have a pile a foot high.

What are we looking for - so I post the appropriate ones? (redacted of course)