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ESA appeal disallowed now what?


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Hi folks, I've spent some time looking on the net this morning looking for answers to what to do now regarding my esa claim.

 

My appeal was held on the 28/04/2010

My appeal was rejected becase: No Descriptors satisfied in Schedule 2 ESA regulations.

 

So the decision of secretary of state issued on the 21/11/2009 means that my esa claim will now stop.

 

I have a severe lower back problems and because of this I have had to stop working and my SSP ran out in Jan this year, I have been suffering with this for nearly 2 years now, I have had physio twice and an MRI and the doc's seem to think that I have a mucsle problem.

 

The judge at the appeal said when I gave him the letter from my specialist that "it's obvious you have a problem but wether you meet the descriptors is what they will decide the claim on".

 

So what are my options now? reappeal against the appeal to the upper tier or a fresh claim for esa, claim job seekers then stick them with a medical certificate, or is there an other option?

 

I feel the fact is they want my claim stopped asap due to the fact they will have to back-date my payments from may 09, they also left me for 6 months without a medical assement and no support from the so-called personal advisor at the job center...

 

So what do I do now?

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hendo001, have you read Rae (Kelcou)'s topics as I think the situation may have some similarities. I'm no expert but hopefully someone will come along with some other tips regarding this claim.

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hendo001, have you read Rae (Kelcou)'s topics as I think the situation may have some similarities. I'm no expert but hopefully someone will come along with some other tips regarding this claim.

 

 

yeah i spent some time reading and googling this morning.

 

I think what I'm gonna do is try claiming for esa again and jsa and then give them another medical cert :D and see what else I can do, I'll also try to get an appointment with CAB in my town too and see what they can do to assist me.

 

Either that or get ran over lol even though the judge at my tribunal said its obvious i have a problem its just the stupid government criterior that I dont meet :(

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You have my sympathy hendo and it's a good reminder to me that I must stick mainly to the descriptors even though I want to declare the "Dr" a total liar.

 

I don't know if this link has been posted before.

 

BBC News - Seriously ill patients 'told to work'

Benefits rules are complex, and although I do try to inform and support people, I may get it wrong because the rules apply to individual claimants and their particular circumstances.

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Hi hendo001,

What an awful situation to find yourself in. I know how I felt when I failed my tribunal. ATOS gave me 0. The tribunal gave me 9 which, to be honest is as good as a 0!

I went straight back into the assessment phase of ESA with a new claim. However, that was because it is simple for me to prove my condition is worse than when I first applied. If there is to be an upside to having a progressive lung disease than that was it. It progresses!

So the only way you can apply again for ESA [within - I'm guessing - six months or so] is to prove your condition has worsened. Your GP and specialist should be of some help. I also googled my condition and did a lot of research to understand my illness and to see what it does to the body as time meanders by. You may be surprised with what you come up with.

JSA is not an option for me. There is simply no way I could fulfill the criterea and I'd find myself cut off the benefit system in no time. Being able to advise prospective employers that they don't need to worry about my pension arrangements probably wouldn't help either.

Hopefully people better than I will advise on this bit, but as far as I'm aware the scenario for us is now straightforward [and unpleasant]. If you're not fit for work you have to apply for ESA. If you can't get ESA then you must be fit for work so must apply for JSA. I'm not sure JSA and long term medical certificates would go hand in hand...

A few days after my failed appeal, I contacted my MP who proved very supportive. He asked for a letter from my GP and evidence supporting my assertions regarding my health. After receiving that, he wrote to the CEO of JCP on my behalf. I'm not sure what's happening with that right now but do have it on very good authority that the poo hits the fan when an MPs letter is received. So something will come of it.

If you wish to appeal the tribunals decision, then it can only be on a point of law. I don't believe that is easy. You would need to ask the tribunals service for a statement of reasons for your hearing. I'm still awaiting that.

Well, hope some of my waffle may be of interest!

Best wishes

Rae

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Does anyone have a link to these descriptors as I better start preparing myself.

 

Thanks

 

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hiya folks and thanks for the posts so far,

 

The judge who sat on m tribunal said that its obvious I have a medical condition but it seems I dont fit the section 2 criterior.

 

I was also thinking about asking my local mp to step in and help, guess I should wait for the elections to finish lol

 

I also see my GP again on the 6th too, I'm going to ask him to refer me to the pain clinic at the local hospital, this is the only way to get stronger medication as in morphine, as I am already on tramadol as it is.

 

I know for definate that there is nothing wrong with my bones in my spine as the MRI would of shown it and he didnt say he saw any muscle damage either :(

 

I don't know much about muscle back problems tbh as most of the stuff I googled ages ago was a bout spondilitus or poor posture etc.

 

The side effects of tramadol are more than enough to keep me off work never mind the pain and aggravation I get when standing/sitting/walking :s

 

Also the specialist who I saw said there isnt much they can do tbh and that "it will get better in time"... its been nearly 2 years how much longer it gonna need like... I'm 27 years old I miss working and I feel on an average day like a 70+ year old man :(

Edited by hendo001
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... The side effects of tramadol are more than enough to keep me off work ...

 

That is an interesting point and might be of further interest to you. How clear was your evidence with regard to medication side effects both in your ESA50 and for the tribunal?

 

For example, this qoute is from ESA Regs 2008, Part 5, Sec 19 :

 

(5) In assessing the extent of a claimant’s capability to perform any activity listed in Schedule 2, it is a condition that the claimant’s incapability to perform the activity arises from—

(a) a specific bodily disease or disablement;

(b) a specific mental illness or disablement; or

© as a direct result of treatment provided by a registered medical practitioner, for such a disease, illness or disablement.

 

I'm no expert, obviously, but I would be thinking along these lines: If my condition requires heavier medication, ie morphine, which will bring with it a worsening of side effects then, ergo, my condition has worsened by the treatment it necessitates. Therefore I have an argument to re-apply for ESA.

 

It may not, at the moment, be a cast iron case but it would certainly be a platform for further exploration...

 

Best wishes

Rae

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hiya folks and thanks for the posts so far,

 

The judge who sat on m tribunal said that its obvious I have a medical condition but it seems I dont fit the section 2 criterior.

 

I was also thinking about asking my local mp to step in and help, guess I should wait for the elections to finish lol

 

I also see my GP again on the 6th too, I'm going to ask him to refer me to the pain clinic at the local hospital, this is the only way to get stronger medication as in morphine, as I am already on tramadol as it is.

 

I know for definate that there is nothing wrong with my bones in my spine as the MRI would of shown it and he didnt say he saw any muscle damage either :(

 

I don't know much about muscle back problems tbh as most of the stuff I googled ages ago was a bout spondilitus or poor posture etc.

 

The side effects of tramadol are more than enough to keep me off work never mind the pain and aggravation I get when standing/sitting/walking :s

 

Also the specialist who I saw said there isnt much they can do tbh and that "it will get better in time"... its been nearly 2 years how much longer it gonna need like... I'm 27 years old I miss working and I feel on an average day like a 70+ year old man :(

 

GP's can prescribe morphine,but your GP may not choose to prescribe it given your age.

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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GP's can prescribe morphine,but your GP may not choose to prescribe it given your age.

 

 

maybe but i think they send ppl to the hospital pain clinic first to see what they can do hopefully I'll be sorted soon

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I don't know the system these days but, yes, 45002, age would be a factor. Mainly iirc due to the addictive nature of morphine or its derivatives coupled with the risk of the body tolerating the dosages and putting the patient into a self-defeating cycle of ever increasing need...

Best wishes

Rae

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I don't know the system these days but, yes, 45002, age would be a factor. Mainly iirc due to the addictive nature of morphine or its derivatives coupled with the risk of the body tolerating the dosages and putting the patient into a self-defeating cycle of ever increasing need...

Best wishes

Rae

 

Thats the problem with morphine,one of the side affects its a very addictive drug.

 

But all drugs have some sort of side affect

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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Hi, What happens during your appeal if you say that you can walk 30 meters but only if you have had 100ml of tramadol?

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Hi everybody. Been off the interweb for a couple of days. For anyone going to appeal, I would endorse what Doktor John said about the descriptors.

 

When my OH and I appealed and won, it was almost exclusively based on the descriptors. My OH decided this is the only language these people understand. I put a version of the document we handed to the tribunal people on the day, edited thanks to Erika, in the stickies on the Benefits forum. I hope it might help someone.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi Hun,

Wouldnt it just be my word against the atos dr.

He says I can walk with out pain and I say I cant.

All of my hospital letters are from after my atos medical.

:rolleyes:

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cbbc, I believe the tribunal look at your health up to the point that ESA stops which - in my case was about 5 months after my ATOSH assessment...

Best wishes

Rae

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TOSH is right.

Benefits rules are complex, and although I do try to inform and support people, I may get it wrong because the rules apply to individual claimants and their particular circumstances.

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Hi, What happens during your appeal if you say that you can walk 30 meters but only if you have had 100ml of tramadol?

 

I'm not sure about this but I know that if there is equipment which addresses the need for help, that particular need is not always considered. For example, if a person had incontinence which meant they needed someone to wash and change them and the bed frequently at night, DLA would argue that the use of continence pads would eliminate the need for frequent attention during the night.

My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

 

 

Please do not seek, offer or produce advice on a consumer issue via private message; it is against

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quick update atm I've gone onto JSA while I wait the 2 weeks I need to for the 6 months are up for me to claim ESA again, also I am at the doc's tomorrow to complain about my back and see if I can get more medical evidence together to see about getting my esa sorted again...

 

I'll update tomorrow after I have seen my GP :)

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hiya folks and thanks for the posts so far,

 

The judge who sat on m tribunal said that its obvious I have a medical condition but it seems I dont fit the section 2 criterior.

 

I was also thinking about asking my local mp to step in and help, guess I should wait for the elections to finish lol

 

I also see my GP again on the 6th too, I'm going to ask him to refer me to the pain clinic at the local hospital, this is the only way to get stronger medication as in morphine, as I am already on tramadol as it is.

 

I know for definate that there is nothing wrong with my bones in my spine as the MRI would of shown it and he didnt say he saw any muscle damage either :(

 

I don't know much about muscle back problems tbh as most of the stuff I googled ages ago was a bout spondilitus or poor posture etc.

 

The side effects of tramadol are more than enough to keep me off work never mind the pain and aggravation I get when standing/sitting/walking :s

 

Also the specialist who I saw said there isnt much they can do tbh and that "it will get better in time"... its been nearly 2 years how much longer it gonna need like... I'm 27 years old I miss working and I feel on an average day like a 70+ year old man :(

 

Hi

I sympathise with you. I have also suffered same types of pain for last 11 years and up to now have been unable to get an MRI scan, but finally have a further app with specialist so hoping I can get sorted. I also take tramadol which is morphine based but only when the pain becomes unbearable as its effects leave me like a zombie. Even tramadol does not relieve the pain just eases it and makes it bearable. Specialist did say if I suffered after 2 years then it would be permanent and confirmed that in a report. He did not recommend any further tests at time as he said it would not change his diagnosis and I would just have to live with it. Its got worse lately and I have always believed I have a trapped nerve or something similar. I have finally managed to get doctor to refer me to another specialist and hoping I can get the full tests done as to what is causing it. Keep on at doctors and try get further investigation.

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Hi folks a quick update.

 

My gp is refering me to the pain clinic at my local hospital :D

 

He said not to actively pursue a job let some of the other 3k ppl applying for the same job to get it... He also said once I'm with the pain clinic that it would be easier to get me back onto sick notes and to keep the DWP from arguing with them about it, my doc is great :)

 

So for now I'm stuck on jsa for like 2-4 weeks till I get in at the pain clinic and then I'll just reapply for my ESA coz then its 6 months of claiming for the same issue :)

 

Also my doc gave me ampitriptyline again... I took 1 pill last night and gonna take another tonight.

 

I went to bed at about 1amish and I didnt wake up till gone 4pm this afternoon... side-effect or what?

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I take it you know what ampitriptyline is ?

 

Amitriptyline

 

It may take between two to four weeks for the benefits of this medicine to appear, so it is very important that you keep taking it, even if it doesn't seem to make much difference at first. If you feel your depression has got worse, or if you have any distressing thoughts or feelings in these first few weeks, then you should talk to your doctor.

Please use the quote system, So everyone will know what your referring too, thank you ...

 

 

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