Collect Services Bailiffs two PCN's issued by Hillingdon Council...paid £720. No breakdown ***WON***

[glennyboy]

Thanks,

 

I thought it was wrong to charge twice for one visit. Ithink I'll go straight to Court and see how they like it. Can't be good for their reputation to have a County Court judgement on their files.

[glennyboy]

I have looked at Culligan v Simpkin and Marstons and am massively confused, mainly because it appears to be about clamping.

 

Looking at the Charges, shouldn't the Levy Fees and Attendance to remove fees be the same on each invoice?

 

When I fill out the money claim is it :

 

My Wife v bailiff 1, bailiff 2 and Collect Services?

[Zamzara]

The point of Culligan is that there are two stages to levying distress.

 

The first is the levy (seizure), for which set charges are laid down.

 

There is then an opportunity for the debtor to pay.

 

The second stage is then removal of the debtor's goods if he does not pay. For this, further reasonable costs may be added.

 

Marstons were trying to charge £100 for clamping on the grounds it was a reasonable charge. The judge held they could not, as at the levy stage no charges can be added beyond the fixed % fees prescribed in regulations, even if the bailiff incurrs additional reasonable costs.

 

Only when removing or attending to remove goods which have already been levied, after the debtor has had a further opportunity to pay, can they add reasonable costs for doing so.

[glennyboy]

I have written the following to Credit Services on 17th August:

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

CASE NUMBERS ******/********

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for providing the statements and screen shots of account dated 21 June 2010, relating to two unpaid Penalty Charge Notices.

Upon examination of your charges, it is clear that you have charged fees twice on each single visit . This not allowed. These second fees are not an “actual and necessary cost” (Throssell v Leeds City Council (1993).

You have also charged “attendance to remove” before you have levied . This is also wrong , confirmed by the recent ruling in Culligan v Simkin & Marstons Group (2008) at paragraphs 49 and 50.

No form 9 was served at the address.

I am fully conversant with the fees prescribed in The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Order 1993.

 

I therefore calculate that you have wrongly charged me:

Visit/Levy Fee 1 £55.23 on 07.04.2010

Attendance to remove £104.50p on 07.04.2010

Visit/Levy fee 2 £68.15 on 22.04.2010

Attendance to remove £124.75 on 22.04.2010

 

Total £352.63p

 

I request that these unlawfully applied fees are refunded forthwith.

 

If you have not responded within fourteen days of this request , I will proceed by way of Court.

 

Besides requesting a refund of unlawful charges, and reasonable costs incurred in dealing with this matter I will request that you give proper evidence that these two visits have taken place. I will also ask you to explain how what you have charged for these two alleged visits represents “actual and necessary costs”

 

 

They have failed to respond and I am now in the process of compiling the Money Claim Online.

 

Must it all be done in my wife's name or can I act as her agent?

 

Who do I claim against, the company, the named bailiffs or both ?

 

Any help much appreciated.

[ploddertom]

If taking them to Court you would name the Bailiff Co and Council as Co-defendants. Have you sent a similar demand to the Council?

 

PT

[glennyboy]

No , I didn't realise they would be involved. I will have to trace which department is involved.

[glennyboy]

Ok.

 

My wife has now claimed against these people for the previously mentioned sum.

They have come back with following defence:

 

We have enforced two warrants issued by Hillingdon Borough Council against Ms **** **** (my daughter) in accordance with Enforcement of Road Traffic Debt (Certified Bailliffs 1993 amended 2003).

Further details of particulars have not been provided by Claimant ( even though we have copies of the previous letters sent signed for on delivery, so they know full well what the amount claimed is and why).

 

Collect Services have not carried out any enforcement action against the Claimant (i.e my wife, who paid the inflated invoice)

 

My wife is now panicking because we may have cocked up the process.

 

Thoughts please.

[ploddertom]

Wait and see what happens - did you involve the Council?

 

PT

[glennyboy]

No. My wife is quite nervous about this. She thinks that it may affect her credit rating if she loses at Court.

If it turns out that my daughter should have claimed (even though my wife paid the bill),can we claim again in her name?

[fork-it]

Whoever is due the refund makes the claim. Its best to claim from the council and as an option, name the bailiff company as a 2nd defendant.

 

Reclaim everything, and let the bailiffs and council counter-argue what fees they want to keep. I think its £24.50 but you can ask for what is called "discovery of information" plus the statutory 8% interest, so you should make something out of that.

[glennyboy]

If we go down this path, do we have to contact the Court and resubmit the claim as above? i.e the whole amount from council and bailliffs. Sorry if it seems I'm a bit dim but my wife and I live a long way apart anf I havent physically seen the defence documents yet.

[glennyboy]

Right, it's taken a while but my wife has now been given a date to attend at Court. She is now panicking that if she loses her claim A)She will be liable for the bailliffs court costs , and B) Have a CCJ AGAINST her because she has lost.

 

Anyone advise us please?

 

Thanks

[king100]

How can you possibly lose, you need to have your facts right about their excessive fees.

 

As stated they cant levy for 2 tickets at the same time. Quote precidents. FACT thats WON.

As long as you go to court with all the relevant details then you dont have a worry. Go ill prepared then you will.

 

They dont have a leg to stand and might contact you before court date to settle.

[sillygirl1]

I've asked for thsi to go to Tomtubby who is our bailiff expert...

[dx100uk]

they will settle before court.

 

and why would she get a CCJ even if she looses???

 

strange logic here

 

dx

[wonkeydonkey]

You are the aggrieved party and not the defendant, there is no risk your wife will get a ccj. You have had money taken from you under false pretences..they cannot charge two fees for one visit.

Just make sure you have everything with you, filed in the order the events occured and be armed with facts, figures and precedents so you are not stumbling to find them in Court. You have nothing to worry about the DJ will help guide you through the procedures.

 

WD

[glennyboy]

Sorry I probably didn't make that clear.

Her thoughts are if the Judge were to find for the bailiffs, would it count as a County Court Judgement against her because she lost the claim? I am confident but she has no experience of Court, Judges etc.

[ploddertom]

Sorry I probably didn't make that clear.

Her thoughts are if the Judge were to find for the bailiffs, would it count as a County Court Judgement against her because she lost the claim - definitely not? I am confident but she has no experience of Court, Judges etc.

 

PT

[Surfer01]

She won't get a CCJ if she loses.

[brassnecked]

She won't get a CCJ if she loses.

 

No as per ploddertom's post she won't get a CCJ if she loses. If that was the case, debt collection agencies and bailiffs would lose their licences, and they would be out of business and not pursuing debtors if they got a CCJJ every time they lose a case in the County Court.

[Surfer01]

I think you need to rephrase the above as it does not make sense in reference to the OP. This is not a debt related issue anyway.

Even if it was a debt related issue, you still don't get issued with a CCJ if you pay up within 28 days of losing a debt related case.

[brassnecked]

No OP's wife thought losing a case they have brought with the bailiff as defendant would give her a CCJ which it won't. I am aware that a CCJ won't be registered if the amount of judgment is paid within 28 days.

 

The point is we are reassuring OP that a CCJ would not result for a judge finding against them.

[Surfer01]

Now it makes sense!

[glennyboy]

Court date on 30 th March.We are about to submit all copies of paperwork on which we are relying, to Collect Services and the Court, and pay the £50 fee.

Where can I find a printable version of THROSSELL V LEEDS CITY COUNCIL ?. I can't seem to find one anywhere.

Thanks

Glennyboy

[ploddertom]

Which Court - Magistrates or County? What application have you submitted?

 

PT