Collect Services Bailiffs two PCN's issued by Hillingdon Council...paid £720. No breakdown ***WON***

[glennyboy]

This is the full story so far.

 

My daughter has had two parking tickets correctly issued by Hillingdon Council. She did not pay them and it was passed to a firm called Collect Services.

She has recently had a baby and has been suffering from post natal depression.

 

Bailiffs have been calling at her flat and posting demands through her door. It got so bad that she wouldn't stay at the flat and spent almost all her time at her mums. The latest demand delivered by hand stating it was too late to pay and if they did not get full payment of £720 in 24 hours they would be back to force entry and take goods. 

 

My daughter was so distressed that my ex wife paid the demand on her Mastercard. No breakdown of the costs given and no receipt to be sent, just a reference number. I told her that this must be wrong and she tried to stop the payment, but it had gone through. I am certain she has been had over by these sharks.

 

Can I demand a breakdown of the costs with a view to taking them to court for unfair charges, like bank charges.

 

All help appreciated.

[dx100uk]

YES

is it 120days yet?

if not try chargeback.

 

look in this forum

you need to send the bailiffs a request for a screen shot.

 

dx

[glennyboy]

Brilliant, thanks for that.

 

BTW whats chargeback?

[dx100uk]

you should be able to do it via your card issuer.

 

not sure in this instance but worth a try!

 

dx

[glennyboy]

This only happened yesterday. Anybody out there got a template I can send to the bailiffs for the breakdown of fees ?

[hallowitch]

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account. Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges including Computer Screenshot.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Cerificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[glennyboy]

Thanks Hallowitch,

 

I had great fun chasing the banks for my money. Now I'm after the bailiffs!!!

[hallowitch]

just to make you aware the bailiff cant charge multiple visit fees if collecting more than 1 parking ticket together

 

so you should only be charged 1 set of visit fees but 2 letter fees

[glennyboy]

Right,

these people have chosen to ignore my request, sent recorded delivery.

 

Where do I go from here??

[hallowitch]

send a formal complaint to

 

Councillor Raymond Puddifoot (Chairman)

 

Leader's Office

Civic Centre, High Street

Uxbridge

Middlesex

UB8 1UW

 

 

include a copy of the letter you sent Collect Services giving the date it was sent and inform them that you have not had a reply to your letter inform the council that this was sent recorded delivery therefore you know that they received it

also remind them that they are fully responsible for there agents including charges and ask them to deal with your complaint or send you a copy of there complaints procedure and the address of the local government ombudsman inform them that you wish all coresponcance to be kept on file as you fully intend to take the complaint further this will include fees chared by there agents that do not comply with The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Regulations

[glennyboy]

Thanks a million

 

Am composing the letter now.

[glennyboy]

I have now received a reply from Collect Services stating:

 

"We are in receipt of your recent communication and would advise you that the information requested is a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act.

 

We are unable to provide you with the information requested as you are not the person named in our records and you have not provided written authorisation from them confirming that the information can be given to you.

Obviously I can draft an authorisation letter for my daughter.

 

Are they right about the S.A.R ?

 

What next?

[dx100uk]

hehe

they're worried

 

your letter said it was not an SAR,

you can have that info for free its your right. under DPA rules.

 

dx

[hallowitch]

Bailiffs have been calling at her flat and posting demands through her door.

 

can i ask did they have charges on these demands for the visits

 

there at it this is not a subject access request

 

agree with dx there worried i would suspect the reason for this refusal is because they have charged fees on both parking tickets when collecting at the same time (not allowed)

 

get your daughter to sign the letter and send it again

[glennyboy]

Where can I find the guidelines for scales of charges etc for baillifs?

 

In the meantime I have sent them this. Not that I hold out any hope of them complying.

 

Dear Sir/ Madam,

 

I refer to your letter dated 21st May 2010.

 

With reference to the above account which was settled by my mother on 29.04.2010 , for the sum of £754.00p. You have not provided a full breakdown of your charges including a Computer Screenshot.

 

I hereby give written authorisation for her to act fully on my behalf with regard to this matter. She has also requested the following information :

 

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Cerificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

As clearly stated in my mother’s letter, this is not Subject access request Under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

I require this information within 14 days.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Miss Ripped Off

[pussycat10]

I had all of these problems with getting a Subject access request as well. Was told I needed to pay £10 to get the screenshot and other info and that I needed then when I did pay the £10 for the subject access request they just sent a pack of lies on a screenshot that had been doctored to suit their needs and refused to send anything else !

 

Is there anywhere stating they have to provide the screenshot or a full breakdown and details etc free or is this just the "Done thing " ?

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/133281-true-council-tax-notice.html

 

might help

 

dx

[bladeboy]

Had the same thing happen to me and two parking fines came to nearly £600.

 

I am in the process of suing through the county court.

 

Firstly, the person paying needs to 'action' a chargeback.

 

The legislation for the scale of fees applied for the collection activity on parking fines is the: Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Order. There is a specific statutory instrument number for this and the charges are laid out there. 1. Letter fee usually £11.20 and then attendance to levy distress which is usually capped at £28.00.

 

Bailiffs are aware of these fees so what they do is charge for 'van fee', 'attendance fee' and bump up the charges. They are not allowed to do this at the levy stage. The more clever ones will quote section 6 of the Stautory Intsrument where it says: attendance to remove where no goods are removed, reasonable cost and charges.

 

What they are effectively doing here is bypassing the levy stage to increase their fees. There is a case in the Central London County Court (Case number: 8CL51015. Anthony Culligan v Jason Simkin/Marston Group) where the judge ruled that even applying a clamp and calling a recovery wagon was still only effectively the 'levy stage'.

 

He ordered that the claimaint be refunded what he had overpayed and that if MARSTON GROUP continued with the practice then it would be unlawful. I take it all they have done in this case is hand over two letters? They can't even argue any removal costs then!

 

This is typical Bailiff Industry out of control tactics. What they are doing is basically fraud but they get away with it because they exploit the lack of knowledge on the part of those they're chasing. Also, no one seems to care much about the industry.

 

OK, to do.

 

1. Action chargeback
   
2. Write again requesting fees
   
3. Send letter before action outlining what should have been charged according to the fees laid out in the Statutory Instrument. Highlight the difference between what you have paid and what should have been paid. State that you are fully conversant with the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Order and that either they are not, or, they think that you are not. Head with LETTER BEFORE ACTION.
   
4. No response then fill in a claim form for the county court and put your 'Particulars of Claim' together. The fee should be no more than £45 or so. As it's a small claim you cannot in any normal circumstances get costs awarded against you. Don't be intimidated. I had their solicitors writing to me claiming that they were going for costs and all sorts; it's all part of the bullyinh process.
   

Keep us all posted.

[dx100uk]

Firstly, the person paying needs to 'action' a chargeback...

 

said that i post 2

has it still not been done then???

 

dx

[glennyboy]

My wife contacted Mastercard to see if she could stop the payment within four hours and they sais it couldn't be done.

 

What exactly is chargeback, and is it too late to ask for one?

[High Court Enforcer]

You need specific grounds to request a chargeback not just because you dont fancy paying for something anymore.

 

Most bailiff companies successfully defend attempted chargebacks these days.

[dx100uk]

chargeback can be done upto 120days after a creditcard transaction.

 

Your grounds should be that you were unlawfully charged excessive amount in fees. in otherwords, you were fleeced.

 

and ideally, bailffs should not 'encourage' people to settle by using a credit card, that not only costs them more in bailiff handling fees, but ofcourse adds interest to the debt too.

 

dx

[glennyboy]

Right, these robbers have finally sent me a breakdown of their costs. I'll try and be as concise as possible.

 

There were two parking tickets on two seperate occasions-not disputed.

 

The breakdown shows the costs on two seperate breakdowns.

 

Two bailliffs have called at her address (together) on two occasions, April 7th 2010 and April 22nd 2010.

 

The first invoice shows:

Costs-£5

Debt-£90 (Ticket ?)

Letter fee- £11.20

Visit/Levy Fee 1-£30-7th April 2010

Attending to remove-£88.94-22nd April 2010

Visit / Levy fee 2- £58-22nd April 2010

C/C £401-£600 (?) - £0.00

C/C £>£600 - £21.28

 

First Total plus v.a.t = £341.06

 

The second Invoice for the other ticket shows:

Costs-£5

Debt-£150 (Ticket ?)

Letter fee- £11.20

Visit/Levy Fee 1-£47-7th April 2010

Visit / Levy fee 2- £57 -22nd April 2010

Attending to remove-£106.17-22nd April 2010

 

Second total plus VAT = £415.12

 

Firstly I dont see how the two debts (tickets) are different amounts.

 

The bill charges twice, despite the two bailiffs visiting together on both visits. Is this legal. ?

 

If we to take these people to Court(with me doing the writing), who should claim. My wife, who paid the bill, or my daughter who incurred the tickets?

 

Any help greatly appreciated !!!

[JH101]

So, they've charged you "attendance to remove" before they've levied. It's quite clear that's wrong, confirmed by the recent ruling in Culligan v. Simkin & Marstons Group (2008 ) at paragraphs 49 and 50.

 

Besides, I'll bet they didn't give you a Form 9, or anything remotely similar. No Form 9, no ATR. Simples.

 

Secondly, they've the full visit fees separately under two warrants for visits made on the same day. That second fee is not an "actual and necessary" cost (Throssell v. Leeds City Council (1993 )), so has to go.

 

Alternative (1) is to ask for a "detailed assessment", for which you have to put down £150, though you should get that back if you knock more than 10% off their bill. That can be filed by your daughter, and has to be filed within three months of getting the bill, so either your time is just running out; or the three months should be taken as starting from your getting the breakdown -- I'm not sure, this is something you would have to check.

 

Alternative (2) is simply to sue them in the small claims court for the money, which you have several years to do. The person who can sue is I think your wife, as it is her money that has been "had and received" due to the misrepresentation by the bailiff company of the money that could legally be owing to them.

 

If you do take them to court, also demand that

* They give you proper evidence that a "visit" really did take place on the dates indicated (unless this is not disputed, because you have had a notice of attendance). Courts are all too well aware of the phenomenon of "Phantom visits", particularly as highlighted in the BBC "Whistleblower" programme a couple of years back.

* They explain how what they have charged you for the visits properly represents their "actual and necessary" costs. It should be possible to drop a letter to you, even using a certificated bailiff, for a lot less than even one of these charges.

Edited July 29, 2010 by JH101

[Yoshiro]

With reference to the chargeback, tell mastercard that the card holder was under duress by the payee or their representatives when the payment was made. I believe this is one of the rules.