Deductions from Wages - Is this Legal ?

[iiimindlessiii]

Hi All -

 

You may remember that I posted earlier about my employer and redundancy. I have decided not to fight this and go about getting another job as I really want to get away from this crappy company once and for all. My leaving date is now 31st May. Fine by me !

 

However, the saga continues.....

 

Last year when I was off sick, the company claimed that they had overpaid me by one month's salary. I contested this, raised a grievance etc and in the end we agreed to split the difference (even then I wanted a quieter life) and agreed that they had overpaid me by two weeks (this was in December) I then agreed with payroll that they would deduct this at a rate of £100 per month until it had been paid off, but despite requests for a breakdown or even a full amount of what I owed, they have never let me know.

 

I have just received my payslip for April only to find that they have deducted £1,068 from my salary. There is no explanation for this other than "earnings adjustment". I have phoned the company who issues the payslips (its outsourced) and they have told me they have to contact payroll and will get back to me within the next 5 days.

 

I know that employers are allowed to deduct an overpayment from my salary but are they allowed to deduct this amount without letting me know...

 

This is going to cause untold hardship for me this month and I am at the end of my rope with this company. Can anyone please give me some advice ???

 

Thanks

 

NL

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

You should issue a letter before action stating that the amount deducted from your wages must be returned within a given timeframe and state that you reserve the right to pursue a legal course of action for unlawful deduction of wages, pursuant to s13 of the ERA 1996...

 

Check on your contract of employment or statement of employment particulars that there is no provision allowing them to deduct from your wages...

[iiimindlessiii]

Thanks again for your advice BRB.

 

I am assuming they are allowed to deduct money for the overpayment, but only at the rate to which we agreed, ie, £100 per month. Anything other than this presumably would have to be agreed by me or at least they should have informed me ? Also, this amount is clearly incorrect as I have been paying this money back over the past few months.

 

I wish I had stuck to my guns last year and told them to shove their offer.

 

Presumably I need to raise another grievance as a first step or should I just issue the letter as you suggested ?

 

Thanks so much for your help !

[Bigredbus]

a) is the agreement between you and your employer in writing?

b) is the amount deducted (£1,068.00) over the outstanding balance?

c) do they issue you with any document stating that you have paid the agreed amount on a given month?

d) did you agree a calendar of repayment?

e) you could raise a grievance and include that you reserve the right to pursue a legal course of action if the amount deducted is not returned within 14 days of the date on the letter.

[iiimindlessiii]

Hi BRB - to answer your points :

 

a) No this was not agreed as such in writing - I agreed via an e mail to drop the grievance and for the sake of bringing an end to the whole sorry mess that I would pay them back 2 weeks salary. I then phoned payroll and asked that I pay this back at the sum of £100 per month which they agreed but I received nothing in writing.

 

b) I don't know what the outstanding balance is, OR in fact what the intial amount they were claiming back was as, despite my requests, they have never given me a breakdown of this or confirmed an amount.

 

c) I have no documents pertaining to the repayments beyond a very basic payslip which only stated "earnings adjustment".

 

d) The only calander of repayment was through the telephone where I agreed the £100 per month. Again I have requested a breakdown (unfortunately by telephone) but nothing.

 

e) I have e mailed HR and asked them to look into this matter asap. if they do not come back to me today, then I am going to raise yet another grievance. I'm not hopeful though that this will be sorted out quickly as they have proved to be totally incompetent.

 

Thanks.

 

NL

[Bigredbus]

Thanks for the clarification...

 

Although there is no written agreement, the fact that you have been paying the same amount (shown on your payslips) monthly for a number of months now amounts to an agreement.

 

You should forget about the grievance and write a letter before action in which you claim that they are in breach of the agreement in force. You have been repaying at an agreed rate of £100.00 per month since XX/XX/2009 or 2010 and the deduction on this month payslip is an unlawful deduction from wages by virtue of s13 of the ERA 1996. Give them 14 days to return the full amount (1,068.00) to your account. Failing to do so, you will bring a case in the County Court, which would make them liable for costs, and interests...

 

Request, also, that they provide you with a full breakdown of the amount owed and outstanding balance. Failure to do so within 14 days and you will bring this to the attention of the Court.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Bigredbus
Correction...

[iiimindlessiii]

Fantastic advice BRB - I will get onto this tomorrow if I don't hear back from HR today....

 

I am really annoyed with myself that i let them get away with this crap last year - I had a good case to drop all the overpayment but agred to drop if for a quiet life. I am an idiot !

 

I will let you know of any developments.

 

NL.

[Bigredbus]

They should react to your letter (special delivery or recorded delivery) pretty quick...

 

Keep us informed.

 

Thanks

 

[iiimindlessiii]

Hiya- just had another thought - not sure whether I should mention this or not in my letter ....

 

when I spoke to the payroll company they said that this was my final payslip from XXXX. Now, whilst I have been told that I am being made redundant at the end of May, this will only happen IF they cannot place me elsewhere within the organisation - you may recall my previous post about this being unfair dismissal rather than redundancy - and this placement can happen at any time until the end of May. It sounds to me that they have been a little preemptive at recovering costs / final payslips if they are truly trying to redeploy me. Do you think there is any mileage in mentioning this or should I just let it go ?

 

Thanks

 

NL

Edited April 28, 2010 by iiimindlessiii
Oops !

[Bigredbus]

Do not mention it in your letter... keep that one as another bullet point if you take them down the legal route... and if they do not offer you any alternative job...

 

(Could you edit your post [# 9] as it mentions a company name... you don't want them to follow you on here!)

[iiimindlessiii]

I will keep that one up my sleeve then !

 

Thanks for pointing out my mistake - I have now edited....

 

NL.

[iiimindlessiii]

OK - I have drafted the following letter - have I missed anything ?

 

"Despite numerous requests to payroll and HR to clarify the amount XXX claims is outstanding from an overpayment of wages from 2009, I have yet to receive any information or any breakdown of these monies.

I agreed to repay the amount at the rate of £100 per month, even though I still do not know exactly how much XXX is claiming back. I have been paying this amount since January 2010.

I received April 2010 payslip today in which I note that an amount of £1,068.86 has been deducted from my salary. I have received no notice of what this amount is for or why this has been deducted from my monthly wages.

I therefore consider XXX to be in breach of the agreement in force, ie the amount of £100 to be taken from my salary.

Since XXX has agreed to take this amount only, then the amount of £1,068 is therefore an unlawful deduction of salary by virtue of Section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996.

Kindly deposit this amount (£1,068.86) into my account within the next 14 days. Failure to do so will force me to recover the monies through the County Court and I will be claiming for interest and costs associated with returned direct debits and late payments. I will also be claiming my full costs associated with bringing this action.

Further, I now formally request a breakdown of all monies deducted from my salary since May 2009, together with reasons for the deductions and any associated dates, ie for sickness etc. together with corresponding SSP payments.

Yours sincerely,

 

Thanks !

[Bigredbus]

OK - I have drafted the following letter - have I missed anything ?

 

"Despite numerous requests, to payroll and HR departments, to clarify the amount XXX claims is outstanding from an overpayment of wages from 2009, I have yet to receive any information or any breakdown of these monies owed.

 

I agreed to repay the amount at a rate of £100 per month, even though I still do not know exactly how much XXX is claiming back. I have been, regularly and without fail, paying this amount since January 2010.

 

I received on XX April 2010 my payslip, in which I note that an amount of £1,068.86 (One Thousand and Sixty Eight Pounds, 86 pence) has been deducted from my salary. I have received no notice as per such a deduction and what this amount is for.

I therefore consider XXX to be in breach of the agreement in force and entered into on XX/XX/XXXX

Since XXX has agreed to take this amount only, then the amount of £1,068 is therefore an unlawful deduction of wages by virtue of Section 13 of the Employment Rights Act 1996.

 

Kindly refund this amount (£1,068.86) into my account within 14 days. Failure to do so will force me to recover the monies through the County Court and I will be claiming for interests and costs.

Further, I now formally request that you provide me with a full breakdown of all monies deducted from my salary since May 2009, together with reasons for the deductions and any associated dates, ie for sickness etc. together with corresponding SSP payments.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Thanks !

 

... Added and corrected a few things... Hope you do not mind!

[iiimindlessiii]

I've made the changes you suggested - thanks so much ! I'm sending this recorded delivery tomorrow - let's see what happens next. I'll let you know.

 

Great advice, thank you.

 

NL.

[Bigredbus]

The date of the agreement is either the date you finalised it or the date of the first deduction on your payslip...

 

Do not hesitate if more help is needed...

 

Take care!

 

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

I hope everything is going well...

[postggj]

dont mind me butting in do you

 

an employer has no authority to take money from your wages with out your written consent

 

i had this problem of overpayment myself

 

i made them take it back at £1 a week from my wages

it took them a year

 

if they have taken it from your wages with out your consent, even if being made redundant, its theft

[iiimindlessiii]

Hello All -

 

Thanks for your messages. I have tried replying a couple of times now but it keeps eating my posts... try again.

 

It appears that the money they have deducted is for 6 days sick leave taken at the beginning of April - I actually took 2 days sick leave (1st AND 6th April) to see my GP for anti-depressants ! They have taken this to be from 1st TO 6th April. I am waiting for confirmation from my line manager, but I suspect it will take a while to sort out.

 

After my meeting with HR on Friday when I was formally given my redundancy notice, I have dedided to appeal (nothing to lose at this point) - my earlier posts go into this in more detail - can I link to that post ? Would you mind if I posted my appeals letter on here for some more advice ? Looking at the redundancy policy it seems there should have been some sort of selection process - although my contention is that I am NOT being made redundant from this project - but I think initially I should go with their policy ...

 

Many thanks yet again for all your help -

 

NL

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

How silly of them...

 

You may want to carry on posting on your thread related to the redundancy problem... and somewhere in this present thread create a link to that thread... so everyone can follow both threads...

 

Did they make any mention of your letter?... that does not prevent them from producing a breakdown of the monies you owe them...

Edited May 5, 2010 by Bigredbus
Addendum...

[iiimindlessiii]

Hi BRB - yes indeed a "silly" mistake - no mention of my letter and no breakdown of any monies so far.

 

Below is a link to my previous thread re my redundancy. Not sure whether this is a goer or not I suspect they will say that the other person (who was employed when I was sick) is doing a different job - he is certainly more senior and better qualified than me, but hey, they gave me the job first !

 

Anyway, below is my draft appeal letter - what do you think ? Should I just stick to the selection procedure line ? Many thanks NL.

Formal Appeal Against Redundancy

I would like to lodge a formal appeal against the Redundancy Notice given to me on Friday 30th April 2010.

My reasons for appealing this decision are :

a) I was originally hired on the basis that my contract would continue until April 2011 at the XXXX project. I have documentation of this.

b) Whilst I was away on sick leave last year, another person was hired to do the same job as me. This person does not appear to have been part of the redundancy pool.

c) Since returning to work last September, and due to this other person being employed, the content of my work has been drastically reduced, ie, I no longer was required at meetings at which I would have previously attended, various administration tasks being taken from me etc.

d) I was told on several occasions that I was not being made redundant from the XXXX Project, by both XXXX and XXXX.

Part of the basis of my appeal is that according to the XXXX Redundancy Policy “selection criteria will not be applied where a unique job with only one job holder becomes redundant. In any other case fair and objective selection criteria will be adopted”.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Link :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/employment-problems/254890-redundancy-unfair-constructive-dismissal.html

[Bigredbus]

Hi BRB - yes indeed a "silly" mistake - no mention of my letter and no breakdown of any monies so far.

 

Below is a link to my previous thread re my redundancy. Not sure whether this is a goer or not I suspect they will say that the other person (who was employed when I was sick) is doing a different job - he is certainly more senior and better qualified than me, but hey, they gave me the job first !

 

Anyway, below is my draft appeal letter - what do you think ? Should I just stick to the selection procedure line ? Many thanks NL.

Formal Appeal Against Redundancy

 

I would like to lodge a formal appeal against the Redundancy Notice given to me on Friday 30th April 2010.

 

My reasons for appealing this decision are :

 

a) I was originally hired on the basis that my contract would continue until April 2011 at the XXXX project. I have documentation of this.

 

b) Whilst I was away on sick leave last year, another person was hired to do the same job as me. This person does not appear to have been part of the redundancy pool.

 

c) Since returning to work last September, and due to this other person being employed, the content of my work has been drastically reduced, ie, I no longer was required at meetings, which I would have previously attended. Various administration tasks being taken from me etc.

 

d) I was told on several occasions that I was not being made redundant from the XXXX Project, by both XXXX and XXXX.

 

Part of the basis of my appeal is that according to the XXXX Redundancy Policy “selection criteria will not be applied where a unique job with only one job holder becomes redundant. In any other case fair and objective selection criteria will be adopted”.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Link :

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/employment-problems/254890-redundancy-unfair-constructive-dismissal.html

 

(a) How many members of staff in the 'at risk' pool?

[iiimindlessiii]

Just one - me !

[Bigredbus]

(a) you went away for medical reason...

(b) they replaced you by someone who has more experience...

© they are attempting to make you redundant...

 

A. Redundancy is defined by the disappearance of either the position or the place of work.

B. Since they replaced you by someone more experienced, they have not ceased that particular position or job...

C. One person is rarely made redundant... it is far more likely to be a conduct or capability reason being incorrectly worded/described as redundancy.

 

Request that they produce a job description for both your job and the job the other person is doing.

 

Request that they detail the reasons they intend to put forward to justify redundancy.

 

That must be done in writing...

Edited May 5, 2010 by Bigredbus
Typo...

[iiimindlessiii]

Thanks again BRB - I will put that in the appeal letter. I totally agree with you the reason for them wanting to get rid of me - i think they employed this other person when I was off sick as they did not want me back (I fought for my job back) and they have been trying to get ever since .... this is why I think this whole redundancy lark stinks. They clearly do not have grounds to get rid of me on a capability issue (since I have not been off sick with my condition since last year) so are trying to get round it by other means.

 

I have never had a job description so that should be interesting !

[Bigredbus]

Draft a letter... or CAGGERS can help you draft one, if you want.

 

Write down your job description before and after your absence for medical reason...

 

Then in the present part of your job description, point out at whom is performing those activities...

Edited May 5, 2010 by Bigredbus
Addendum...